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You must be raging a Motherwell win and another weekend wasted for you.

When he came on at Dundee SOD did everything that Devine didn't. Suddenly the midfield had an option moving forward out wide other than Gent and Dundee were stretched all across the park. As a result Spittal started to contribute more, Bair had space to run into and Gent was not double marked. And Kettlewell deserves credit for making that change, despite the concern about SOD carrying an injury. His performances throughout the season have more than earned SOD another year.

If they interview Kettlewell, that's season 1 sorted.

The player sales model debate is an interesting one. For me, it's not a precarious model by any means. And I'd suggest that it demonstrably works. We're in a situation where the club doesn't urgently need outside investment - it would just be preferable. Our model ensures that it's unlikely that the hypothetical gap outlined in the Well Society's consultation earlier in the year, and the hypothetical gap that is the very reason for courting external investment in the first place, will, based on the experience of fan-ownership to date, materialise. It never has under fan-ownership and, even if it did, the Well Society has enough funding to cover that gap as a one-off. The issue would be if something that has yet to happen didn't just happen one year, but two in quick succession. Of course, nothing is impossible in football. Over the same time period that fan-owned Motherwell has remained in the division, reached cup finals, and made Europe, clubs with bigger resources such as Hearts, Hibernian and Dundee United have all been relegated. So it's a duty of the club to at least recognise that hypothetical gap and see if there's a more productive way to eradicate it, other than relying on the Well Society to plug it if it happens once, and then to probably slash our playing budget if it happens again in quick succession (before the Society has built up the safety net again). But in terms of our model, David Turnbull always gets picked out as a seeming "anomaly" but in reality, he's the result of an effective player sales model. Since fan-ownership came into being, we have - purely off the top of my head, so there'll probably be others I miss - sold, for cash, guys like Louis Moult, Cedric Kipre, Kevin van Keen, Sondre Solholm Johansen, James Scott & Ben Heneghan. We could have, had we tied them down on contracts, added Chris Cadden, Allan Campbell, Jake Hastie, Dean Cornelius & Max Johnston to that list. However, the compensation for each still numbers in the hundreds of thousands meaning that, collectively, that's still well over £1m. We will probably sell Theo Bair on for a relatively decent fee in the summer, January, or next summer, while at the same time, Lennon Miller will almost certainly go for a price that you could perhaps list alongside the Turnbull fee. In terms of any investment meaning a change from that model and the ability to keep our best players, I would argue that is incredibly unlikely, if not impossible. The player sales model is only partly because of a financial need, it's also largely because of the club's stature in world football. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it was confirmed at the AGM by the club that no investment offer is transformational, meaning that there would be no change to the model. In fact, you could argue that, if any investor was keen on getting a return on their investment, the player sales model could become even more important in that situation. The only way in which our model ceases to be our model that I can see is if we ended up with an incredibly unlikely Colin & Christine Weir scenario where a diehard Motherwell fan wins the Euromillions and wants to just chuck cash at the club. But even in that situation, where you don't necessarily need to sell players, players would still be sold - because the best guys will always want to move on to play at perceived bigger clubs or in better leagues, regardless of how much cash you're able to throw at them. The player sales model at Fir Park has been in place, and worked successfully, before fan-ownership, has worked under fan-ownership, and will continue to work regardless of whether the club is owned by the fans, an external investor, or a hybrid of the two. Personally, I think it's both a successful model that we should be positive about, because we're good at it, and a model that will be integral to the club whether we like it or not anyway.

Ive never understood this logic. Surely you are interested in how much money the manager has to spend on new players in the close season. As has been already stated the difference of a couple of places could be £125k. That could be the difference in getting a couple of our 1st choice targets, or having to settle for "projects" again. Every game between now and the end of the season is important to us. We have a big rebuild again in the summer. The more money we have for that the better.

It's worth remembering that certain people who will remain nameless have been greetin' about every manager we've had for years now. Those same people were moaning about Robinson, Alexander, McGhee, Baraclough, McCall, and on and on. And if and when Kettlewell moves on, they'll do the same about the next guy. Some folk just get a kick out of being negative. I personally think he's a very good coach for us. Sure, there are better ones out there, but we're Motherwell. I'm not sure many better managers would be throwing people out of the way to get to Fir Park and work with our budget. If we make the top six this season, considering the squad we have? I'd say that's pretty astounding. It won't stop some people from focusing on the teams who didn't make the top six, though, and saying that it wasn't because of us being decent.

Nope. We got peak Kev in his last season. Given his age and his normal goal scoring form of single digit seasons, I never wanted him back. Just bask in his record breaking season and look forward to the next Kev we uncover. I'd be happier if we kept Vale for next season.

Interesting reading here for sure, and as much as it surprises me to be saying this, SteelBoy is on the money with a lot of what he's saying in my opinion. In my experience, people with the financial clout to invest heavily in a football club aren't the type to accept a situation where they have to run their decisions and plans past a majority holding group made up, for the most part, of people who have nowhere near the same level of business experience as they do. If they're putting a considerable amount of money into any venture, they'll expect to make at least that and more back on the other side. That's simply how it is. They're not coming and giving up time and money for nothing. This suggests to me that they'll want majority control and will not be answerable to the Well Society. No serious investor would accept risking their capital in an industry that is difficult to profit from at the best of times without having majority control over how that entity is run and, more importantly, how their money is spent. The Well Society and any votes in the future would simply be seen as inconveniences and roadblocks to the real professionals doing their jobs. Which is maximising profit for the owner on their investment. The most concerning thing for any football fan is that most owners who do not have an emotional attachment to the club they own often see it as just another business venture. Venture is the key word there. Defined as "an undertaking involving chance or risk" or "a speculative business enterprise," which in most cases means that the investor takes a chance, and has an amount of money they're willing to lose before declaring the venture a loss. At that point, they cut it loose and let it sink. It happens to companies every day. It's just that those companies ordinarily don't have fans. I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong on that count and see a unicorn in the form of someone with a ton of cash and no real emotional attachment to the club happy to throw cash into the pot and basically cede overall control and direction to the Well Society. I don't see it happening, though. As has been mentioned already, fan ownership gives us many things, but the most important is that it gives us our club. If the Well Society loses majority control (if it happens), it will no longer be our club—it will be the new owners' club. At that point, we will be just customers. Most of the noise surrounding this issue seems to be paving the way for a change in majority ownership. Again, this is just my opinion based on what I've experienced in the past. Losing majority control of something like a football is a hard sell to fans. The only way to really accomplish that is to convince said fans via various PR means that there's not really any other option moving forward. Vague mentions of financial issues and a drip-style media campaign that gets fans used to the idea of giving up control. Again, I'm not saying this is what is happening, but it looks a lot like it from the outside. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Get Spittal to f**k! Hasn’t played since he signed for Hearts.

Thanks Theo nice to see your backing yourself, self confidence is important.

At the financial levels we operate at re wages etc £750k would fund possibly 4 or 5 players, so it's very decent cash to a club like ours. And the bigger English clubs know this all too well, it's small change to them.

This is it exactly for me. The club has always (since administration etc. anyway) operated under a model where we need to sell a player every other year to keep the books balanced, or sell a Turnbull every three or so. The WS' funds essentially became a way for the club to keep things balanced in leaner times after Les came in, and that's absolutely worked and kept the club afloat. I would argue that's not necessarily true fan ownership, which is why I'm intrigued to see what the new WS board have to offer in terms of growing that to something even more meaningful. However, there's also no reason that the work they're doing can't be done alongside an investor who wants to work with the WS to do that, using their own business experience and skills to supplement what is already there. My line in the sand for all of this has always been 51/49 ownership in favour of the fans. If it goes beyond that (even if it takes years, or is performance based etc.) it's a no from me. Also, there is far, far more to any potential takeover than can be acutely summarised on a forum like this. Like I'm enjoying the debate and discussion but we also need to know a significant amount of what we're reading here and in the press is speculation. e.g. The actual, financial valuation of the club and its assets (rather than the emotional one we as fans put on it) calculated by forensic accountants/finance specialists and then adding in any potential clauses the WS want around ensuring that if they lost majority ownership, there is first refusal on the investor's shares if/when they choose to go or sell up. This is all, of course, dependent on it getting to the stage of there being an actual offer for the club that the Exec Board deems worth considering. Exclusivity of negotiations doesn't guarantee that will happen. One (final, I promise) point; none of the potential investors we have attracted so far are offering to put "transformational" amounts of money into the club. So whatever happens in that regard, I believe the WS will have to continue in some capacity to support the club in leaner times. Like you said @joewarkfanclub we need to be very careful when coming to a decision. Personally, I think there is a model where the WS and any investor(s) could work together (whilst the WS/fans retains majority ownership under whatever structure is negotiated) to build the former and help the latter get a return on their investment, leaving the club in a stronger position than it was. There is nuance to that which will take time to work out, if it is indeed an option, but the devil, as always, will be in the detail.

Do you have an application form in for the Trolls doom and misery club alongside Yodo, MJC and Steelboy, why was yesterday pathetic, we never lost and had a great chance to win with the last kick of the ball? A draw was probably the fair result as Hibs played ok as well. Since December we've been good, playing better picking up results, ending our Rangers hoodoo, to be even in the position of still be able to make the top 6 speaks volumes on how well SK has turned it round from us being 2nd bottom.. so why not give the team some credit for a change, you might enjoy the experience.

The players on their way out should be dropped and the young boys given a chance. Yesterday was pathetic.

I am seriously thinking about turning this topic into some sort of stage show and taking it to the Fringe it’s utterly insane the amount of nonsense that’s getting slung about lol.

Don't bring sound rational thinking into this!!!!!! What I like is Steelboys thought process where he has made his mind up that any potential deal with an outside investor will result in the death of Motherwell FC, which as far as I can see is based upon knowing:- 1- absolutely nothing 2- pure speculation 3- turning that speculation into fact in his head But I do respect the fact that he is just carrying on with it as it makes for great reading 🤣 Steelboy, I get that you clearly love Motherwell and the fan ownership model but lets just actually wait and see what the details of the deal are 👍 COYW!!!!!!

So far and only because of the Turnbull money. Next season you've got both Dundee clubs with owners seemingly happy to pump millions into their playing squads. Hibs with 5m American investment. Kilmarnock with Billy Bowie and his blank chequebook Hearts hoovering up all the better players in our league with 15m sitting in the bank from their foundation and Budge and Co happy to keep putting money in. Ross County with Uncle Roy's blank chequebook. Aberdeen with a rich chairman putting his money where his mouth is (not that its helped this season of course) St Johnstone with a potential American buyer with money to burn by the sounds of it. Even St Mirren have Gilmour putting money in albeit in the form of soft loans. Old Firm take care of themselves. That leaves us and with no form of outside investment unless you class the WS as that. Money doesn't always buy success of course but it makes it a damn sight easier. Do we sit back and hope that the teams with more money than us manage to keep f*****g things up and we keep "punching above our weight" and continue to get lucky with bargain basement buys to stay in the top flight. I'm still of the opinion that the WS retain control of the club but if we want to keep competing at this level in light of whats happening at other clubs we need to look at every option otherwise we might find ourselves in the never ending cycle of trying to avoid the dreaded bottom 2 places every season and the type of football that brings

Given our defence is leakier than Downing Street, I'll focus my comments on those players now. SOD will be 32 in May and should have a few years left in him, but probably not as a marauding RWB for much longer. He's local, so I'm sure he'd accept a new deal if offered, but it's anyone's guess what those terms would/should be. McGinn will be 34 in October and probably has another season at least left at this level, so we may offer him a 1-year deal as he's versatile and reliable, and his experience will help the younger boys. However, I can see another SPL club offering him a 2-year contract with, likely, improved wages, which he would be wise to take. Bevis is a bit of an unknown. He's been here for what feels like a long time, and he's now an international captain, which is incredible for him. This new status will likely have his agent's ears pricked up, meaning he'll be getting touted for a higher wage to other clubs, although this could be something we accept and offer him a new deal anyway. Butcher appears to be finished at this level and shouldn't be offered a new deal. He's an Obika, unfortunately. Blaney is under contract, has found his way into the team lately, and may decide to see out his deal, but that all depends on what conversations Kettlewell has had with him. Casey. Let's hope he continues to improve and learn. His strengths and passion are there for all to see, as well as his weaknesses. He'll get a proper pre-season this year. Elliot. Does he exist? Why was he signed? Gent's loan will end, and he's out of contract at Blackburn, meaning he's likely out of our price range, although I would love to sign him. He's been fantastic and seems to be flourishing. He can even play as an inside forward. Monty is already back at Celtic, recovering from an injury, although we may see him come off the bench for us in May. Good luck to the lad, whatever happens, as his cameo was impressive. Devine. Back to Rangers. He would benefit from going out on loan to a lower league for a spell. Wilson. He'll return to us from Beith, and his contract expires in May. I'm not sure what will happen next. I've no clue about the other young lads and won't comment.

That 90mins probably summed up our whole season. A complete roller coaster of a ride going through every emotion under the sun from despair to elation. Currently enjoying a pint with some Dundee and Dundee Utd fans in Dundee city centre and what they're saying about their teams could be lifted straight from our forum. One thing I've learned from today is never to post anything during a game because it will inevitably come back and bite you on the arse. MJC Yodo and Steelboy take note🫠

If only it were that simple, eh? The current manager has probably had to work with one of the smallest playing budgets our club has had in recent times. That's clearly reflected in the players we have. There are a lot of reasons why we don't start some games all that well. Factors such as early goals, injuries, or unexpected opposition tactics all necessitate on-the-fly adaptations by the manager. That applies to all managers of all teams, of course. There are times when we start a game really well, and it's then on the opposition coaching team to work out a way to combat that. I mean, generally, one of the two teams in any game has to start off as the better side. So there's a 50/50 chance it will be us. Many people seem to overlook the fact that the opposition's response adds another layer of complexity. We don't operate in a vacuum. It's not just about what we do. The opposition plays a part in the game as well. They may make tactical changes during the game, requiring the manager to react accordingly, which Kettlewell has shown on a few occasions he's more than capable of doing. How many fans of clubs do you hear moaning about no "plan B"? Well, that's not really a problem for us, as Kettlewell has shown he has the ability to read and react to a number of circumstances, which considering the quality and budget he has available, is admirable on its own. I'd go as far as to say that a top six finish with the current squad we have would be nothing short of astounding.

Moses has parted the sea or as it's more commonly known dundees pitch.

Watch the rangers dictate and get exactly what they want on Wednesday, as that pitch will be even more unplayable after today.

At least theirs has an element of conspiracy theory to it. The best our forum 'experts' could come up with was that we couldn't afford to put the undersoil heating on.

You ever get the feeling where I wish I hadn't mentioned it!! Cheers Mr Cowan 😜😜

Probably something to do with his 204 career goals vs Theo's 21.

Ominous. I'll no sleep tonight.

This all day long. We need to ditch the weird formation and get our best players playing in their best positions. Vale is great with his back to goal and holding the ball up and playing others in. Bair is better running in behind. Davor runs around and breaks shit up. Miller and Spittal are both best at controlling the tempo and picking a pass. Gent is great at beating his man and driving crosses across the 6 yard box. Just do that. And if the defence could maybe not chuck any in our own net that would be grand!

AHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAA

My education was also very much delivered in the 1975 Airdrie cup semi. I still have the scarf I bought for that game in case I ever forget.

You can't distill our lack of points down to one incident in one game. We've given away many goals that have cost us points and missed many chances that would have potentially earned us points over the course of the season. Just like every other team. That's why the league table is a good reflection of form over the season.

That's harsh mate, I accept that Spittal hasn't been as influencial in the last two or three games but to suggest that it's because of his move isn't acceptable. He's still working as hard as ever and who was it that got his head in the way of a certain goal at the back post?

I don't want a manager that says top 6 is punching "well" above our league. We been top 6 loads over past 10 year. Is it such a massive ambition?

Now either O'Donnell has slept with someone close to you or he owes you money. There's been several players this season made mistakes, but they don't seem to get the Steelboy yir shite patter. As for yir kicking into the middle of the park comment, I suppose you would have brought it down in the swirling wind and played an inch perfect pass to a forward, Though not!!!!

The rain is on, maybe postpone this one till Wednesday?

Interesting fact for football fans. Most people know that The Proclaimers are massive Hibs fans and that their fantastic song Sunshine On Leith is sung at games. But something a lot of you do not realise is that many years ago , brothers Craig and Charlie both worked as groundsmen for the club. They got the sack after players complained that the grass was too long and it ruined their passing game. The brothers blamed this on DIY store B and Q They went to Bathgate no mower, Linwood no mower, Irvine no mower, Lochaber no mower, Sutherland no mower, Lewis no mower, Skye no mower..........

It all went downhill for The Record after they stopped running Angus Og.

I am not technically minded but I think Snapchat is when 2 folk say the word Chat at the same time!!.... Cueeeee ......... Ba boom......... COYW

I have one plea - keep it simple Ketts and don't overthink tactics!!

Again agree. I want Motherwell to be in the position where if other clubs come knocking for our best players - we can say no. I also completely get that there's also a balancing act at times as well - do you sell for a good sum when you can or let talent go for very little - as happened with Max Johnson. Elsewhere on the boards folk were talking about the prospect of clubs coming in for Theo Bair - and he's only scored 13 goals I think. That's not me trying to talk him down. It just seems as if every time a player is either very talented or hits form - we resign ourselves to losing them. Also. It would be good to have a settled team - and not face the prospect of a rebuild every other season. Fan ownership is a great thing - but I really do think we need a cash injection from elsewhere

Evening Folks Has definitely been a season full of up's and downs yet we still have a chance of Top 6 which is incredible. We are surely safe now as Ross Co would need to win 3 and draw 1 of last 6 games and us to get hee haw points. However in my opinion one thing that can't be disputed is the togetherness and close knit squad we have. You just need to look at the celebrations for the goals. From experienced pros like SOD, McGinn, Kelly.....to new signings Davor....Bair and Halliday to the loanees Gent and Vale and of course the other lads. They obviously like playing for Kettlewell and even when we were on a terrible run there certainly wasn't disharmony ( cue that Ross Co side we pumped 5-0) The interaction with fans and their genuine affection for the club is great to see. Let's get a big support on Saturday and give them all the encouragement we can. Yes it's still a big ask to reach top 6 but if anyone had offered you that in mid January you would have thought they were bonkers COYW

I'd cheer the team spirit of GrizzlyG Always positive throughout the season and I hope the team give him the just rewards on Saturday. Terrible stand up comedian though....

Its everything else he may bring with his team of people and contacts. He will have far superior media execs, sponsor opportunities etc etc which can only be a good thing as well as putting us in the window. The only person ive seen touting the 1.5mil idea is Steelboy who im actually thinking is just a troll looking for reactions as he seems unhinged at any idea of Motherwell trying something a little different. I get the feeling he sits in a rage when we win 😜

In some circumstances there is a perfect way to win a game. Today was that day.

Brilliant come back. What a difference after Halliday went off.

Sounds painful.

60 minutes and no shot on target. The fact that people think this is an acceptable standard is mental. The manager should have been gone before Christmas.

Depends how it got sick

Can I buy your motor for £100? House for £500. Don't be so stupid. I take it you are the guy who answers the emails from Nigerian princes?

Hope for the best, but expect....you know. Motherwell's my team, and no level is too low to change that. Same story for a lot of folk, but the poverty of the product, combined with rising prices - football related or otherwise - must be shaving numbers off the gate year by year, and it does hee haw to encourage new paying customers.

After Patterson’s performance last night, SOD should cancel any summer holidays and prepare for a recall. The ex-R##### made more errors in each half of the game than SOD made in total in all his appearances. But haven’t heard mention of it anywhere.