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Scott doesn't need to go out on loan, he needs the players around him to show up.

There is no place on this forum for sensible reasoned posts like this

I tend not to make too many demands of our team but one of them is making sure you don't go out of Cup competitions with a whimper. You would be hard pushed to make the argument we down all guns blazing last night! I felt this would be the best opportunity yet to see where we are on our own patch with a side, although bigger, one we beat on their last visit here. There was no lower division opposition. No plastic pitch. No League Champions. And we were found wanting to a pretty worrying degree. Physically we just didn't look on the same level as Hearts and with that came a visible lack of belief that we could play through them and around them without being bullied or outrun. And Hearts sussed that very early on. Poor defending, poor decision making, slow predictable passes that allowed Hearts to get set pretty much all night. There was just so much that wasn't anywhere good enough. The first half an hour against Celtic suggests there is a level we can reach that is way in excess of what we showed through much of last night. I hope that as the team gel and become increasingly sharper that half spell against Celtic becomes the norm rather than the exception, otherwise tricky times may lie ahead. Some things to be addressed before Hamilton!!

We need a striker and a winger before the window shuts.

Hope these guys aren't here in a couple of years time

It was mentioned in Commentary that Gallagher had been ill all week with a temp of 38°. Funny how , when Robbo is under pressure, it becomes a 40° Temperature to try prove something? If anything it (playing with a 40° temp) proves the Manager is a clueless fuckwit as that wouldve been pretty dangerous and irresponsible on his part!

Think I have just about calmed down after last nights inept performance. During the group stages, I did have some concerns about how the defence would stand up against a higher level of team. Now we are finding out. Without going over every player's performance last night, my lasting thought is if Lennon is getting stick for shoehorning players into position, then why is Robinson getting away with it so easily... Jake Carroll gets suspended but rather than play and develop Livingstone, he moves Tait back over that side. Hearts even played a 17-year-old at left-back last night so why didn't he give Livingstone that chance? The interview withPolworth during the week, states he's used to playing a No. 10 role, more like Turnbull was playing last season, but has been asked to play deeper Long, Cole, Hylton and Seedorf all confirmed as can play anywhere across the front three, yet no out and out striker among them. I felt sorry for James Scott getting subbed last night, he might still be a little naive but he was the only one willing to try and close the ball down up the front. Their keeper definitely got an easier time when the ball was at his feet in the second half.

Really good post and sums up my view of the team. Only thing I would disagree with you is that Seedorf was even worse than Hylton last night and how he stayed on for the whole 90 mins is beyond belief. He was like a lost schoolboy player.

Having had time to calm down a bit since last night and reflect on where we’re at after the first 3 games against teams at our level I think the goalkeeper and 1st choice defence will be fine this season, it clearly further forward where our issues lay. Gillespie has had a tough start to the season with a couple of mistakes (not terrible mistakes right enough) but let’s not forget he make a couple of decent saves last night that people seem to be forgetting and was man of the match at Livi in my opinion, far to early to talk about dropping him, manager needs to show some loyalty. Defence - Would be very surprised if a defence of Tait, Carroll, Gallagher and Dunne wasn’t good enough to keep us up. Midfield - Very concerning in my opinion, Campbell works hard and gets the ball but badly needs ball players alongside him to be effective. Polworth is a tough one, plays 3 or 4 nice passes a game but just doesn’t do enough in 90 mins. Donnelly is a trier but as I feared I just don’t think he’s good enough with the ball at his feet to play that position in our league. Sooner DT gets back the better, but unless Sloth is going to appear and be a presence in that midfield then we need a holding/passing midfield player. A big part of the reason we were watching Dunne shell passes over the midfields head last night was that none of them were good enough/confident enough to come and take it off him (in fairness to Polworth I think he did it once or twice last night) Forwards - Again, very concerning. There’s a player in Scott, as we’ve seen on occasions already, however it’s too much to ask at his age to play up there on his own against the experience/aggressive central defenders (like Berra). Should be making appearances off the bench or going out on loan until Xmas in my opinion. With Long and Cole it’s maybe a little early to tell give their game time so far, however neither looks to be the answer if we are going to persist with one central striker. The 3 wide players, Hylton, Seedorf and Ilic the early signs are not great. Hylton was truly awful last night and the other two have offered little more during their time on the pitch, however they need to be given a little time to adjust to our league and their new surroundings. I think we need to tweak the formation for Accies Away, playing with two under performing wide players would be very risky... I think we need a presence in midfield who can hold the ball and play passes, then make himself available again and build play and finally I think we need a strapping centre forward who can hold the ball up on his own and score goals. Can’t see us getting either on our budget but we can hope........

Where do I start, first of all our scouting system who have signed us 5 forward players with every one so far being brutal. GrimshA was...grim. dicky at left back doesn't work. Polworth set pieces an embarrassment., Gillespie for penalty a joke but to be fair was excellent last season. Dunne as I have said before only gets a game due to pace, distribution a joke. Only highlight was the group of youngsters in Cooper stand singing the well songs

Takes blame for nothing, last week fitness was the issue...he should see that for himself. He will lose dressing room if he keeps coming out with those kind of statements.

Even if we had won last night, I wasn't looking forward to Accies and their pitch but after that nightmare performance it's hard to see where the bottle necessary to get any points there will come from. I wonder if Robinson's "real men" jibe will rebound on him, too? It's not just the new players who don't look fit, either. I thought Tait (what's happened to him?) and Campbell looked sluggish and Gillespie's confidence and judgment also seem to have taken a knock. Seedorf looks ineffectual and weedy (same for Cole) but even he was better than Hylton, who looks the part physically but doesn't even track back. Mind you giving them the ball when they are almost stationary and double-marked isn't likely to end successfully. Seems no-one is capable of placing a pass inside the full back, apart from Polworth, who reminds me of Vigurs but without the nasty side to his play. Blood and snotters attitude needed for next Saturday but it's hard to see where it's going to come from.

Recruitment for clubs at our level is getting more and more difficult. Money is everything in football. There are players who would rather sit in stand, than play for us on peanuts. The guys we sign are all punts, and need time to adjust. To many are quick to bin them or give them a chance. Yet, the guys that have apparently not been replaced, were punts as well. Football management is not easy. The guys shouting for sackings, are never going to be happy. Todate we have only been beaten by city clubs on much bigger resources. Yes, there are issues within our team, but we need to give them time and our support.

Is it to do with being fan owned though? I was sceptical at the beginning of the fan ownership, but under the right leadership I'm beginning to think it can work for us. IMO it's the areas we are spending the budget. We have a very fruitful youth system yet have signed 10 or 11 players this summer, and how many of them are better than macguire, semple, livingstone, Cornelius etc? So far I'll say 2, 3 maybe with the jury out on the rest. Why are we not signing 5 or 6 quality starters and bulking the squad out with the youths? I had the same complaints this time last year too. Or, genuine question, am I just being naive in my thinking?

Robinson at his best.

Main would just be swapping one reason for not scoring goals for another. Johnson would be as much of a waste as Scott, as it doesn't matter who's there if you don't have anyone that can deliver the ball to them in a semi-decent area.

Also interesting to hear the manager basically throw his players to the wolves for the second game running. After Celtic he named them outright. Robbo needs to take responsibility here,. He trains and coaches them and picks the team. Calling out players isn't the answer.

Calm down. Frear wasn't good enough after two and a half seasons. These guys have had three matches.

I'd honestly take Frear right now. A winger who could at least occasionally beat his man and put a cross in would be a welcome upgrade on the current three.

A very, very poor performance last night and we were beaten before we even took to the pitch. Wrong team wrong tactics. The players themselves made a bad situation worse as we all know. At the moment we simply can't afford to play with 2 wingers. I just can't fathom out our team this season at all - no leadership, no direction, no character and no identity. Players playing out of position this early in the season, an odd mixture of player styles; I just don't get it. Yes its early and new players do take time to gel but they weren't all new recruits last night. We badly need a new number 9 and a defensive midfielder before the window slams shut. Both 100% essential. Last night we were toothless up front and although predictably Scott was isolated he looked out of his depth and really does need a spell out on loan. The wingers were totally ineffective, as others have commented. The central midfield was outfought and completely devoid of attacking ideas and in that regard felt sorry for Dunne as no-one was showing. Polworth had a hand in 2 goals and although shows flashes of talent he does look like a Championship level David Turnbull. Donnelly is like a fish out of water in central midfield and Allan Campbell just isn't his usual self. At the back, Gillespie was poor, especially his distribution, which put defenders under immediate pressure. Both full backs were poor and when Hearts scored their goal I though Stevie Hammell was playing again. In their defence, both full backs received no cover from the impotent wingers. I thought Gallagher had a reasonable game and does seem like the best of summer acquisitions. As MFC said our shape and organisation when not in posssession, was very poor,but thats nothing new. We had no physicality either last night. Hearts were no great shakes, but were worthy winners and hardly needed to move out of second gear. We had loads of possession in the second half but failed to trouble the Hearts defence which strolled it. Referee got a few major decisons wrong including the first penalty and letting their first goal stand. he also got the flare up near the end totally wrong and Smith should have received a straight red. Given Carroll's summons by the Compliance Officer it will be very interesting indeed to see whether Smith's yellow card will be upgraded to a red. A proper test for the system.

Poor poor performance. Apart from being shite,the biggest worry about that team is the lack of leadership, desire and resolve. The 2 wingers hylton, seedorf are a problem, imo we are playing with 9 men. They offer nothing and seedorf especially look weak. My granny could take the ball off him, shocking upper body strength. Illic doesn't look interested. A real naivety about this team and can see us taking some real gubbins away from home. At this stage in time I feel we need a change of formation and benching 1 or 2 of our wide men. The torrential rain that fell last night meant we needed men on the park unfortunately there were some posted missing.

I think it’s fair to say without any hesitation that we were absolutely shite last night. Marginally better in the second half than in the first but that wouldn’t be difficult. Where do I start? Gillespie had barely made a mistake all of last season but has had 3 shaky games on the bounce now. I wouldn’t be averse to seeing Carson back next week if he’s fully fit and recovered. Harsh but if Carson can recover his form from his first season he’s too good to be sitting on our bench. Grimshaw - wow - one of the worst performances I’ve seen from a Motherwell full back since the days of Tony straker (Richard Tait also in the running after last night). Think somebody said before he plays like a sensible soccer player running about until invariably someone gets their fingers stuck between the buttons and he kicks the hall out for a corner from the half way line. tait. What the fuck has happened to him? You can moan all you like about him being played out of position but he still can’t defend or get back in position and looks unfit. dunne will get criticism for his distribution again. For what’s it worth he played a couple of cracking cross field passes last night. But it should have been left at that. No need to over egg it. Defensively just fine. Gallagher was solid defensively and calm in possession. Looking an astute signing. donnelly nowhere near the worst again but he’ll be the scapegoat any time we lose. Not the long term answer in that position won the ball back a few times and at least managed to get a shot on target unlike most of his colleagues. A few rogue passes as is the norm. campbell seems to be escaping a lot of criticism but he’s not doing a lot right at the moment. Not winning the ball back and poor in possession. polworth looks like a championship version of David turnbull. I don’t want that to be derogatory as it wasn’t intended to be. He’s got ability for sure but the sum of the parts don’t add up. Smashing pass for the goal and one of the few likely to make things happen. serdorf. A work in progress according to the manager. Not sure we have the coaching staff to turn him in to player good enough to be starting for us. forgot Hilton was playing scott. Unfair to judge him last night as he was starved of service. If we could get a number 9 in that was good with his back to goal I would like to see him spending s year in the championship as he would develop and probably smash the level. the subs were a bit meh but at least long showed he could slot if given the chance. all in all a forgetful night at fir park

Well that was enjoyable. I night that would show how the season would pan out told us a hell of a lot. I think it’s all been said already but yep, a complete shambles of a performance. Hylton, Seedorf, Long, Cole really were awful, Gillespie suddenly seems a liability for some reason. Scott showed again why he should be nowhere near the first team at this point in his career, surely everyone can now see it. Ok Tait did not have his best game but take a look back at the highlights and see what support he had from Hylton, I had forgotten he was even on the park at one point, he was totally invisible, I would have taken him off after 20 minutes. Gillespie on the other side had Seedorf who was hardly any better. We really were second best against a very ordinary Hearts side. Robinson says he takes responsibility for the new signings which of course he has to do, they looked wonderful against the lower league teams but look completely out of their depth at this level ( Gillespie and Polworth excluded). I’m very much a glass half full supporter but came away from that pretty demoralised.

This. I didn’t think Tate was as terrible as some people have suggested. Some of the flaws in his game in the first half were because he was covering the entire left side himself as Hylton was an empty shirt. Hiding, not showing, not tracking back, not covering and pushed off the ball any time he did get on it.

One of the worst displays in many a year. It's down to Robinson who is clueless. We lucked out last year when he ran out of ideas and gave Turnbull a run and the rest was history. Not replacing Gorrin will cost up big time. Polworth is too lazy and drifts out a game and Campbell is getting overrun. As for Donnelly....naaa you're alright. Up front nothingof note, Scott is nowhere near first team yet and needs a wise head to learn from. Long offers nothing and the wingers have bursts of pace but no technical skills to beat a man. 10th place for us..have ninth, but there is genuinely no creative force on that team currently.

Or maybe the wingers hold onto the ball too long because the full backs don’t help them by making runs beyond them. Or there is nobody in midfield demanding the ball. Or their is nobody in the box to cross to. Tait’s first season he was near the top of the table for assists, having made runs forward and provided a decent final pass. That was on the right side of the pitch to be fair. Wingers are not great. Far from it. But it’s not all down to them. Also it’s hard to control a pass when it’s three feet over your head and endangering the crowd in the East Stand.

Couldn't play the ball through their strikers, a really terrible performance. Dreadful from both full backs especially.

Said it on saturday and I'll say it again,our shape when we don't have possession is school boy stuff,wtf was tate doing getting sucked so far in for the first goal.our full backs are causing us nothing but bother and the front 3 are anonymous yet again.