john_M_F_C
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Posts posted by john_M_F_C
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In any walk of life, if you want to change rules, you have to abide by the ones that currently stand. Only then will they give credibity to widening them. As it stands it seems like the attitude is "if we just ignore the rules then eventually they will just get rid of them". That's an extremely naive and youthful way of looking at life, and I think is whats largely responsible for the group being viewed as a bunch of kids. It's not an age thing...its that to an outsider looking in their approach to authority is extremely childlike. As long as thats the case, progress will never be made.
"Im just going to do what I want until I get my own way" is Kevin the teenager behavior at best.
I approve of the goal and the aim, but the methods are generally embarrassingly counter-productive.
Can you point to the singing of any
offensivesectarian songs sang at Fir Park this season, by the 'Well Bois? the "rules" were brought in to tackle sectarian abuse. As it stands it's to tackle anything offensive, which again, there's not been anything offensive from the 'Well Bois.There's been individual incidents where individual Motherwell fans have acted in a way that might incite disorder, part of the act, but on the whole, the "rules" have been adhered to by those trying to change it.
The problem here doesn't lie with the 'Bois, it's with the "holier than thou" folk, who seem incapable of a better solution to change things yet feel the need to call everybody else's "childlike".
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As much as people want to blame Ripley, you play a back 4 there, everybody knows where they should be positioned, the boy doesn't find the space, and doesn't get the shot away with in the first place.
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Mcghee sat down at the dugout after the goal sums things up for me, no passion, no desire. Time for him to go.
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Ridiculous thread, Alan Burrows does works hard for the club, doing the day to day running. The big decisions seem to be made by this les character, and the board.
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However, we are on the naughty step for a wee while
Yes, and no. They've essentially been told to make sure it doesn't happen again. The likelihood is that the situation won't happen again. Token gesture really.
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Just so everybody is clear, we haven't been punished here.
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That answers that then.
Seriously though, no matter what age you are, a lot of your responses are coming across as very naive and not positioning your argument, when challenged, very well at all. Takes a lot away from some of the factual and well authored retorts you have actually had. Ultimately means your point is being taken less seriously.
well, it didn't answer anything, did it?
Naive? because it's not the most popular answer? Good because they're of a similar opinion to yours?
It's a shame that most of the talk on here's been about our choice to jointly protest on a fan issue, with a similar fan group, not the issue itself. There's been pages worth about it, yet, there was next to nothing noted when we staged our own protest against Partick Thistle. I get that people are annoyed we'd work with the Green Brigade, but nobody even took notice when we tried to do it on our own.
It's maybe easy to suggest now, but, if our support wasn't happy about us working with outsiders, then perhaps it would be beneficial for us all, that we do get behind fan issues more, as a wider support?
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Everyone's thinking it, but I'm going to ask...
Are you about 15? Or a teenager at least?
Can't come back on content, boils it down to a self righteous comment about age...
Come back to me on the offensive behaviour at football act.
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Why do people want people jailed for singing or creating signs for praising Al Quida?
Because of intolerance.
Personally I wouldn't want people supporting an extremist islamic group to get the jail either. You don't change peoples views, no matter how repulsive they are, by making them illegal. It pushes them further underground, and further entrenches people. The green brigade's views are going to be repulsive to some, I fully understand that, but we can't let a political class dictate what is right or wrong. or in the case of the bill, where you can be more wrong, that's verging on the totalitarian groups like al Quieda and ISIS.
Did we not have a daft slogan for one of the cup finals?
On the topic of the Bill pretty much everything people are getting arrested of the stuff was already illegal the problem is the Bill creates a different burden of proof and punishment for football fans compared to the rest of society. It's massively discriminatory and would have been laughed out of Westminster or any country with a credible press. The maximum sentence for internet based football abuse is harsher than for carrying a knife which is mental.
However could repeal the Bill tomorrow and Police Scotland would still do all the same things. The problem is that they have been given extra money because football fans have been identified as a problem and as long as that is a source of funding they will ensure it remains a problem. If people want football policing to return to reasonable levels pressure should be put on Holyrood to focus police resources on things like money laundering and pursuing violent organised crime because if they can get away with continuing to pick on motorists and football fans they will.
You're wrong on the count that the bill is getting people arrested for things that are already illegal, but certainly convictions for it have all been for things that were already illegal. You're right on the burden of proof though, it makes it very easy to get arrested now, as the police only need to say that your actions may have offended any right minded person, or that they could have caused disorder, even if measures were in place to prevent disorder. That isn't right.
The bill helps perpetuate the notion that we, as football fans, are all working class yobs, that drink, fight and offend, as we all know, that's far from the truth. It suits a political agenda that makes football fans look loutish, and it suits the police to collect extra money to make us look like apes.
It doesn't matter what else we as Motherwell fans stand for, we should be standing against this act of parliament.
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what a statement to make, i cannot believe that has been said by a motherwell fan.
Why would you want folk to get the jail for singing songs?
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Without wanting to defend the green brigade, I'm very glad we don't get the treatment they get.
The level of policing they get is mental, all for singing songs that some folk don't agree with.
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Obviously calling folk bed wetters was a bit much, purely out of frustration.
It is fairly frustrating, the point of Saturday was to raise eyebrows, and make people see that this issue was big enough for two opposing groups to put their own differences aside for a couple of minutes.
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Have you seen some of the banners they put up at the smelly ground ? Maybe that's why some find them "utterly repulsive "
The point I was making is, that with so few people agreeing with anything they stand for, they all seem to have a fair idea of what they're all about, seems to be a lot of empathy with people that seem to be ideologically opposed to a lot of posters on here.
You're wasting your time with this guy.He's right and we are all out of step.
It's quite telling though,that 3 days later,he is the lone voice defending what went on.
Most of the folk in the section can't be bothered with this site, rightly so, full of bed wetters.
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Weird that everybody has an insight into the Green Brigade's motivation, yet seem to find them utterly repulsive, what's going on there? bit odd.
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That’s a crazy amount to be fined for a word that will be said at every game up and down the country. I have belted it out the ‘F’ word myself on numerous occasions without comment from a steward or policeman. Not that I don’t believe you, however, are you 100% certain this actually happened, and the story hasn’t just been exaggerated by the FAC to cause a stir on social media? If I remember correctly, even the ‘Bovril Two’ made the press.
FAC haven't put much out about it, the word on that seems to have came from accies fans, posting on twitter. I believe it was on the way to the ground that the boys were lifted. That's all the parts of the story that I'm aware of.
Was the protest featured in any of the tabloids today? Is there going to be anything included in the Motherwell times to explain it? Did the pundits or commentators speak about the motivation for it while the game was halted?
I can't imagine the answer to any of these questions is yes. As a sympathiser for the HHES campaign, I think the joint message you had intended to deliver was nothing more than a very visual disruption of the game on the tele.
If both sets of fans had rolled out massive banners with the same message it might have gotten a bit of positive coverage & raised a few eyebrows from those that matter while sitting at home.
There was no visual message yesterday, a stoppage of the game and increased sales of tennis balls from Sports Direct. Stick to the banners lads.
Herald and evening times ran with it online last night, don't know if it's made any printed editions yet.
Banner went up about it, banners about it increasingly difficult too, grey area when it's seen as a "political messages" therefore, banned.
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That being the case then have you considered starting up a campaign via something like https://you.38degrees.org.uk/about_us and then fans of whatever teams you are aligned with on the issue can distribute to their own supporters and then let social media work it's magic to spread the word and advise on the aims and actions you have in mind?
I've also seen sites that provide templates of an email about a specific issue that when you enter your postcode will give you the option of emailing any, or all of the MP's or MSP's that are within your reach.
It isn't direct action but with an election a matter of months away there is an opportunity to at least highlight the issue there for you for if handled correctly. Play politics with the politicians. Nobody is going to know who you vote for at the end of the day but get that suit with the wee red, yellow and black or blue rosette to think they'll be on to x amount of votes from you and your mates if they start highlighting the issue or commit to assist then you might make some inroads.
That being the case then have you considered starting up a campaign via something like https://you.38degrees.org.uk/about_us and then fans of whatever teams you are aligned with on the issue can distribute to their own supporters and then let social media work it's magic to spread the word and advise on the aims and actions you have in mind?
I've also seen sites that provide templates of an email about a specific issue that when you enter your postcode will give you the option of emailing any, or all of the MP's or MSP's that are within your reach.
It isn't direct action but with an election a matter of months away there is an opportunity to at least highlight the issue there for you for if handled correctly. Play politics with the politicians. Nobody is going to know who you vote for at the end of the day but get that suit with the wee red, yellow and black or blue rosette to think they'll be on to x amount of votes from you and your mates if they start highlighting the issue or commit to assist then you might make some inroads.
We've lettered MSP's before, FAC have taken a petition to parliament on the matter too.
In terms of playing the issue politically, it's very difficult, every major party, opposes the act, all but the SNP. With SNP support as high as its been, and on course for another majority in parliament, it becomes very difficult to fight against. No government wants to repeal their own law, because then it looks like they've made an arse of something.
It's also very hard to lobby support against something which is perceived to be tackling sectarianism, as it looks like you're trying to defend the indefensible.
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Do you you have a link to the story? I can’t find anything online about this madness.
No press coverage, mainly reported on twitter and through meetings with those involved with FAC, fine between the two alleged to have been £2500.
Quite a few on here that you think youre cleverer than were round the block and going through the courts umpteen times for acting the dick at the footbal while you were still sooking yer maws tits - and they didny go greeting about it as they knew they were acting the dick
If you dont like being called the Motherwell Brigade or the 'Well bhoys dont jump into bed with the scum or play the 'useful idiot' for them and the scumbags at FAC
This is't about acting like a dick, it's about freedom of speech and expression, as mellow-dramatic as that sounds. Acting the dick is one thing, but this law is getting folk into trouble for doing very little wrong, take celtic out the equation, as a motherwell fan, are you offended by somebody singing "well, well, fuck yer well" and do you think that's worthy of being fined a 4 figure sum? The problem is with this law is that nobody really knows if you're breaking it or not, entering the field of play, fighting, using pyro, that's pretty black and white, but, we're talking about people getting arrested for their words or songs now, which is a dangerous place to be.
Hardly jumped into bed with the green brigade but, we hate them, they hate us, we're hardly going up the gallowgate with them, blasting the rebs, and skudding pints of guiness. We'd have done it with Rangers, Dundee United, Aberdeen, anybody.
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What are the protests striving for? Revision of the current Act?
Ourselves, involved in the Heavy Hands Empty Stands campaign would like to see the act abolished. The FAC group, initially a Celtic group, but branching out to other clubs, would also like to see the same. There's existing legislation in place to prevent racism and sectarianism, it should be used. The act makes it easier to convict people on the basis that what ever is said, or gestured, could have caused disorder.
The Hamilton fans, for me, is the best example of how dangerous this legislation is, a couple of young lads have now got criminal records and had to pay 4 figure fines, essentially, for saying "fuck".
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Interesting responses here, hardly stood shoulder to shoulder with the Green Brigade, done a joint action on a specific issue affecting both groups, doesn't make us pals all of a sudden, we hate them, they hate us, but, unlike almost everybody on here, we can see the bigger picture.
The bill needs opposed, poor stewarding and policing needs highlighting. Continuing to highlight such issues purely from inside our own clubs bubble doesn't work. On this issue, unfortunately, we have to side with people that might make some uncomfortable. -
i still maintain if you dont act like a dick and smuggle flares/smoke bombs, run onto the park, fight before or after games, shout and swear etc then the big bad stewards wont pick on you.
Funny how MOST of our and other teams fans have little or no negative interaction with stewards/police at all yet the same bunches of fans are always moaning that they get picked on.
Just support the team.
Someone on here will probably slag me off in a mature way just like the "ya toilet brush" comment above but the fact remains its mostly warranted attention that the small section of the Well Bois/Green Brigade or other small sections of other teams fans get.
It's hardly warranted? the odd smokebomb, yes that's crossing the line, but is the levels of policing and the style of policing/stewarding justified? no, absolutely not.
The problem here, is rubbish legislation, allied with a football specific police unit, that's backed up by its ability to arrest rather than convict. No helping the situation is the stewards, who think they're hard men, wading in and realising they aren't dealing with wee boys, and end up having to have the police bail them out of their own mistakes.
The legislation could see you arrested, for pretty much anything, so it's a cause worth fighting.
This party political broadcast was brought to you by the Green Brigade.
Motherwell fans standing shoulder to shoulder with the vermin who caused 10k of damage to our ground.
What a craic?
Grow up.
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Lost all respect for the well bois after the joint protest with the green brigade scumbags.
Why?
Putting differences aside to highlight a bigger issue, and a common enemy?
The sad fact is, the well bois had no other option than to side with the green brigade over this.
The police/SNP want this issue to be one of division, they don't want fans to be united in opposition to what is, terrible legislation and an attack on freedom of speech. If football fans cannot defend themselves, and put differences and club allegiances aside, then whats the point? we'll continue to get shafted by police/stewards/legislation.
Put the petty rivalries aside and the underlying bigotry, siding with the green brigade is what needed to happen, for the bigger picture. I don't think it's going to mean that the bois will be down the gallowgate now, singing the rebs and tanking guiness. It was for a minute or so in a game, to highlight that something must change.
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What a waste of resources, the boy done no harm in the slightest.
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I for one will not miss them. I prefer singing traditional Motherwell songs and not listening to a load of children.
Mate, yer a fucking bed wetter.
Children? Come up to the older Well Bois one game, ask us about being children, we can tell you about all being in our mid 20's, having other commitments at times, which means it's a struggle for us to build the atmosphere every game(that's trying to address the "where are we?" type comments)/
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At least our fans matched up to our disgrace of a football team today. Double giro week in North motherwell meant that fake stone island was plentiful amongst our throng of fifty year old drug dealer/casuals. The team were far less an embarrassment than the congregation of hard men bullying the 17 year old St mirren stewards. A waste of time and money the lot of them
Mate, you're a bed wetter.
There's more pressing issues than the relitavely good behaviour of our fans yesterday.
The Stewarding/policing Thread
in Club Chat
Posted
There's been no suggestions around how to gain support for a repeal of the OBFA, and the wider issue of fan treatment.