john_M_F_C

the offensive behavior at football and threatening communications bill. No mention of sectarianism there. It's not something 'well fans should support in anyway. The bill will encourage power hungry police "THIS OFFENDS ME YOU WILL BE ARRESTED" type stuff is all this will encourage. If you haven't already please read the bill(link posted on page 2) as it will open you eyes as to why we cannot let this bill be passed as law.

it's not naive in the slightest, maybe smacks of youthful rebellion to some extent but there's nothing naive about standing up(literally) for something you believe in, no matter how trivial others see it.

We're the only section, in the whole of Fir Park to have been singled out by police for extra attention- video cameras etc. For what? not breaking a law? I'm sorry but that is being victimised. We've been to Killie, Dunfermiline, Inverness, Hibs and St. Mirren and had free reign to do as we've pleased, this has resulted in people enjoying the football and police and stewards having to deal with a reasonably easy shift in which they received no abuse. The police do gather intelligence on fans in that section, boys have been spoken to by police who have addressed them by name having never met them before, with out doing anything other than not breaking the law and enjoying themselves. Wether you believe it or not fans are being singled out and victimised.

Personal abuse aside(i assume you were sat down being well behaved) you could flip the coin and say why should these lads who like a drink and like to enjoy the football in their own way have to move from the seat they chose and wanted to stand next to because a couple of people want to sit and watch the game. Move further forward or away from the people who won't sit down. The atmosphere has improved greatly both home and away as stewards have generally turned a blind eye to standing, the players have commented on the efforts of the end section of the east stand, as have several media outlets and other members of our support, yet people like you still feel the need to come on and detract from a group of people who are doing NO harm to anybody and resort to calling them clowns?

Was it not the SS(the real SS not the saturday service) who would use the excuse "just doin our job" when they carried out ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen before or since? Just cos your doing a job doesn't mean its right. and martin, no as far as I am aware it is not illegal to stand in an all seater stadium, the rules state teams must have an all seater stadium but I don't think the rules say anybody has to sit down in it.

Lets face it, the campaign isn't up for "discussion" its Motherwell forum, we're letting people know what's happening within our support. We're going to look at this as a vehicle to move the campaign forward and let people know what's going on, pass on some info and such. What's to debate about it? a crimes a crime, until you do it at a football match then its more of a crime? not on. This law won't remove sectarianism from football grounds, the sectarians will still be sectarian outside the ground, educate them, don't try making law after law to tackle it. Your I behave myself line is alot of shite though. If you like sitting on yer arse and just watching then fine do it, but don't bemoan the like minded individuals who attend looking to for one thing, to enjoy themselves. The campaign has to be backed, just look at the figures of people charged(not convicted remember) of sectarian offenses in Scotland that have just been released, the vast majority were not in a football ground, so why do we need football(not ice hockey, rugby or sports over all) legislation? Why are over half the "victims" police officers? "Victims" by my understanding being the people who took offense to what's been said. A law in which makes any behavior deemed offensive by a right minded person is a total minefield. Especially when you see the police are the main "victims" of sectarian crimes.

What do people get out of coming on a thread like this to moan about the campaign? I get you have an opinion, but what do you get out of it? is it telling everybody that you behave yerself? Somebody explain?

Sorry, think your way off the mark here, this campaign we have going is trying to pull all the groups together on this issue. The heavy hands empty stand initiative is looking for all supporters groups and all supporters to give it backing. We're not interested in the politics surrounding anything else on this board. We NEED this campaign at Motherwell, please don't turn it into a thread about the MST and SAC stuff.

here's a link to the bill itself for anybody interested: Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Ocelot may be interested to read it. Show what we're really up against here.

the laws exist, there's Celtic and Rangers fans all on sectarian breach right now, why make another law which makes sectarianism at the football worse than doing it on the street.

it tackles all things that could be deemed offensive by any right minded person. It means even light hearted stuff like calling the dons sheep shaggers could land you with a criminal record. The media are calling it an anti sectarian bill, its far from a sectarian bill, it's there to make an example of football fans. This bill will see Motherwell fans end up with a record and a banning order.

Don't need one, they apply for it in a public place no? The fitba isn't really public since your charged an entry fee etc.

is this a piss take? really?it'd cost a fuck load to make a suit out of anything like what your suggesting. I'm a product design student though, so if you want I'll make this for you. Although may this scary new mascot not turn away visiting fans, I can imagine some dick dressed up in a suit might intimidate them too much, stick with the bears and lay aff the crystal meth.

Albi has a point, a shite one but its a point. No proof of weather it is the group(its not) that has let off smoke bombs. If they could prove it is us(its not) I could see there point. Since we're being considered as the guilty party in this(we're not) it seems ridiculous that they can reject us. I personally was dragged down the street by the arm by a police officer after the chief steward accused me of telling her to "piss off" so the woman in question was lying about us, considering us as the people who set off smoke bombs(we're not). After explaining one banner read "never mind the boo boys lets make some real noise" we were told "Dundee United are not a political club and will not have these messages displayed in their stadium. We offered to return the flags and drums to the bus and just go in, they then said no. The police were concerned at this point that the stewards were causing a scene and making it worse than it was. At this point the 3 of us went to the home end. One steward out side the stand, no police, and we seen one steward inside. The banner was rolled out with no concern from police or stewards. One rule for them one rule for us 'cos we've set off smoke bombs?(we've not)

The banner was already in the bag due to some other goings on lately. made it even more appropriate though that we couldn't get anything in though and had to sneak it and ourselves in the home end.

Aye, even the polis outside seemed confused by the Dundee united security. Turned up to have the chief steward and the head of security waiting on us. As far as our contact with the club go we'd been told all the flags etc had been cleared at the pre-ops meeting. A lot more heavy handed than Celtic park up there now. Mile out. A protest banner saying "heavy hands empty stands" in claret and amber text appeared in the Dundee end though...

piss poor. and most of the lads from up the far of the east stand were denied entry, no flags, drums etc allowed in.

We can't go around telling folk not to throw in their wee add ons into songs, I and the other lads do quite literally have better things to do at the football. I do see the point, and as an apolitical group, having something like that gives us tag like that is a bad idea, hence how I've never got the sewing machine out to make it.

He not studying Chemistry or something?

Most OF wind ups are a massive cringe anyway. I've said if folk want a UJ at our games it should be a claret and amber one.

The seig heils are something we thought was stamped out, very audible yesterday though. not good. The UJ was a total wind up, wasn't really my thing, and I'll say that as one of those who was holding it aloft as we left. Went to grab it off the seats, forgetting it was taped to the seat at the bottom, thus being held aloft, I'll be honest I was shitting it when I realised i was holding it up like that. At the same time the reaction from the celtic support was mental. Our intention since really last season when it kicked off for us has mainly been to get as many people singing as we can, change the atmosphere etc. We don't wish to alienate anybody, hence no group name or membership system, none of the self styled ULTRAS banners down the front etc. The rest of the support have been great towards us since the quarter finals last season as has the media response. For me some of the conduct yesterday was poor. Mainly let down by the lack of alot of older lads not being there. Poorest numbers we've had this season, poorest participation we've had this season, just a blip. Won't ever be back there though.

No, not at all, by getting up and leaving we showed solidarity with a fellow well fan who was unfairly removed.

Yesterday was the last time for us, ok'd the flags, as soon as we were through the turnstiles they had the lad carrying our flags then said no, so we were all inside and he was out, with the flags. Left as they chucked out a younger lad and got nothing but vile abuse outside. Thanks to all the well fans applauding us as we left.

Smallest team in SPL loosed to biggest two shocker.

You'd hope he never even got a telling off for that.