Dee

There's quite a lot to unpack there, some which I agree with and some which I don't. Let's start with where I do agree - in an ideal world it would be excellent to have our own training facility and the stadium needs modernised to an extent to make corporate days and hospitality more appealing. Both fair comments. Where I believe your argument falls down is the Dundee United comparison. Firstly, Dundee United are a much bigger club than Motherwell. Their average match-day attendance is almost double ours and their wage bill sits at £6.9million - significantly higher than ours. On top of that their recent annual accounts reported a £5m loss - up from £1.9m the year before - before player sales were taken into account. This all going on whilst under American ownership. In the 5 years under American ownership, United have experienced, as you rightly point out, relegation, they've had 6 different managers, protesting fans and have spent upwards of £10 million. Said American owner has continued spending and most worryingly has done this with an interest free loan against the club. I couldn't tell you the current total but a couple of years ago their accounts listed that the club owe said investor over £9m. How will they ever pay this back? Certainly a worrying situation. To quote a 'Well fan journo who penned this in a previous Herald article about United; "Wealthy benefactor? Check. Money being ploughed in? Check. Wages wildly exceeding turnover? Check. Careening through managers? Check. Success? That cheque is still in the post." Now I know this thread is very much about Motherwell with the figures of our deal and details of the investors still to be presented to the wider fanbase, but it's certainly worth noting that not one American investor has brought notable success since they put their money into a Scottish football club. That success may come, but it's not guaranteed. And I'm not here to convince anyone that we shouldn't be entertaining any external investment, far from it. I think it's important we listen to all credible offers that come our way. I'm also not comparing the deal on the table at Fir Park to that at Dundee United, I'll wait until we all know the full facts. But I think it's hugely important to have a serious think about what our red lines are. What do we value the football club at? What percentage of control would we be willing to relinquish and for what cost? What does any investor want to gain from putting their money into Motherwell FC?

993* Well Society members (a 36% turnout) responded to the poll: 351 votes were cast for the option: I would not consider voting in support of any proposal which would see the Well Society losing its majority shareholding. 642 votes were cast for the option: I would consider voting in support of any investment proposal which would see the Well Society losing its majority shareholding. Interesting results, in all honesty I was expecting a lot more to be in favour of the "I would" option. 36% of the membership that voted saying No before they have sight of the options on the table is very telling. For me the most disappointing aspect is the extremely low turnout on what I'd stress is an important issue.

An excellent summary of last night's AGM @StAndrew7, thanks for pulling that together. I just wanted to pick up on the point made about The Society having the opportunity to present it's own plan. Firstly, as some have pointed out, I think from it's inception the Society has been hugely successful but in my opinion one of our real failings has been to effectively communicate our success. I noticed a very good summary from @capt_oatson Pie & Bovril that detailed since 16/17 the fan-ownership model has been profitable; Net - £2,415,205. Our loans to the club (around 900k) have been invaluable and who knows where we'd be without that input. It's important to note that there's room for significant improvement from the Society and if we want to move forward and succeed we must acknowledge our shortcomings. On that note, I'd argue that we've simply not been good enough at is converting those members who are not paying a monthly subscription to actually stump up (if they are in a position to do so) and we've not inspired those who are currently paying to up their contributions. There's many reasons why people might not be paying a monthly subscription but the change from the original model to the current one example; some have paid their initial fee before it was move to monthly DD's and haven't paid much since. This should be an easy fix, and as @Jay has highlighted, I feel with the current re-vamped board in place we are in a much better position to do this sort of thing. On said plan, I've been really impressed and inspired by the additions to The Well Society board at the end of last year. The contributions from Amber, Sean and Phil have been excellent and I believe we're moving forward at pace. From our discussions, and I hope that other members of the Society board who contributed to this don't mind me sharing their vision, it has became clear we must explore in detail the potential of both the 'Well Society and the operations of the club to maximise revenue and to grow. Some suggestions put forward from Board members include; - Extensive market research of our fan base, cross referencing habits around tickets sales with our membership to identify potential membership growth. In turn allowing the board to develop a strategy for increasing the revenue of TWS, forecasting financial targets therefore dictating our organising strategy for future years. - Commission a study of the operational structure of the club similar to what other Scottish Clubs are doing. This will help us identify what additional roles and infrastructure are required and what financial investment would be secured for them over a set time period. A fundraising strategy can then be developed as part of a comprehensive operational strategy that ensures cohesion and shared vision throughout the club that can be collectively evaluated regularly. - Host a fact finding conference at Fir Park bringing together fan owned clubs across Europe to explore best practice, develop relationships and commercial opportunities. This alongside the ongoing work and sessions hosted by Phil Speedie should ensure a closer relationship between the Majority Shareholder and the operations of the club and I would hope that it would empower members to be more involved and bring them closer to the club and the vehicle which they are funding. By compiling the results from the above projects we can present a fully comprehensive 5-10 year strategy that will sustainably grow the revenue of the club, reduce potential financial risks and ideally ensure remain competitive on the park. The strategy should lay out the require project specific investment and infrastructure requirements and lay out a roadmap to achieve each. In my personal opinion, I believe that this work can and should be done whilst continuing to keep our options open to potential investors, providing they are credible and fit with our values. We've no doubt got a wealth of talent in our ranks that is going untapped. We've got 3,800 not only from Lanarkshire but across the Globe and we simply don't know enough about them and we don't know what each individual can bring to the table. That needs to change, and it needs to change fast, regardless of external investment or not. I've been really heartened by progress and I'd like to thank all those that have been involved it in, but there's a long way to go and I'd like as many 'Well fans to be part of that journey as possible. Regardless what the future brings, I think discussions like this are so important in highlighting how much the Club means to so many people.

Might be of interest to some.

Just a quick update to respond to the above posts. The display was planned before the Phil announcement and it will not be linked. A massive thanks to everyone who has donated. As I type this we currently have a total of £5,645 which is still rising. We will donate the final total to the Society which will be doubled by Les then the £4,500 for display prep and costs will be returned. By my poor maths this means the Society is set to gain at least £6,790!

It cost a bit more than that but not a significant amount more. To give a bit of background to the 2011 display. It was heavily subsidised by the printing company (I believe they actually took quite a hit on it) as the owner was a relation of a Motherwell legend. This company has since went out of business. The display we had against Pano cost more than the 2011 one and we only filled the east stand. One of the main issues we have with materials is that it's extremely difficult to get claret & Amber off the shelf from most retailers. We then have to get our Pantone colours printed. We're aiming high fundraising wise this time & will see how we get on!

Back in another final so we're hoping to have another impressive fan display. I know many on here were very generous back in 2011 so I thought I'd post here again. It's a high target but with various fundraising efforts we will hopefully get there and raise some dosh for the Society also. Post below: Since our inception our aim has always been to bring colour and atmosphere to Motherwell games, both home and away. Over the years we believe our contribution, both vocally and visually, has had a positive impact on improving the atmosphere at Fir Park however we understand this would not be possible without the backing and support we have received from the wider fan base . For this we are forever grateful. On many occasions we have organised choreographed fan displays. These displays are often costly and are more often than not paid for out of our own pockets or through donations, again from generous Well fans who share our vision and support what we are doing. As the Betfred Cup Final fast approaches we would like to ask our fellow Motherwell fans to dig deep once again and donate towards another display. On Sunday 26th November we want to want the players to emerge from the tunnel to a sea of Claret & Amber. This is only possible with your help! We have an initial target of £4,500 which should pay for all material costs, postage and delivery. Once this target is achieved we will then donate any additional funds raised to The Well Society which will be doubled by Les Hutchison. Thanks for your continued support. SIWY! https://www.gofundme.com/motherwell-fans-cup-final-display

Congratulations Jay, well deserved! As for that Loving Cup presentation at Ibrox, it's nothing short of a disgrace that our club took part in this. "Many years have past since then and so it is, to this day, in the Blue Room in Ibrox, before the first home game of each New Year, the Toast to the health of the reigning Monarch is celebrated by the Rangers board members and the board members of the visiting team of the day." Considering we are now a fan owned club we should be ensuring that we represent the views of our paying members. To be toasting the reigning Monarch is absolute cavemen stuff and something we could have politely declined. Jay, I wish you all the best in your new position. Please make it a priority to have a word and clarify we don't need to bend over to please other clubs, especially the Old Firm, at every opportunity.

Motherwell fans, or any football fan in general, proclaiming that they are "glad" that an eighteen year old boy with no previous convictions has been banged up in our overcrowding prisons is extremely worrying and quite frankly ridiculous. Was his actions irresponsible - yes, was it against the law - yes, but does the punishment fit the crime - not in a million years. Pyrotechnics are banned in the UK at present and probably always will be due to the hysteria from both the media and the governing bodies of our game. Whilst these rules are in place the actions of those involved in setting off such devices are indefensible. What should be highlighted though is there is MASSIVE differences between a smoke bomb and a flare and there is a massive overreaction in terms of health risks around the use of smoke bombs. I know I am most likely n the minority here but I think clubs should be doing more to accommodate young supporters needs and wants. In recent years there has been a rise in the use of pyrotechnics across the UK and it has been ridiculed by governing bodies, police forces and clubs alike. Kids are getting arrested, charged and their futures being tarnished. Take a look at Norway for example, they have tackled this issue by discussing with supporters the dangers and implications of these devices but also found out the reason for people wanting to bring these devices to matches. The result - pyrotechnics are now legal in Norway in specific areas of the ground, away from those that are at risk but they must be approved by fire departments and clubs ahead of the match. Progressive or common sense? As for the Well Bois "going to war" with the police and stewards. What a lot of nonsense. The Well Bois would much prefer it if the police were as far out of sight as possible. Should the Well Bois take more responsibility in self-policing? Arguably yes. That said, there is a great deal of self policing that goes on week in week out. When you have a supporters group of that age range and dynamic there is always going to be 1 or 2 people who attach themselves and like to push the boundaries and occasion it may reflect back on the group as a whole. This "group" has been around for the best part of 10 years and are not all "wee needs", as Onthefringes mentioned there is a lot of young & old professionals involved who only want to bring colour and noise back to football. What again is not justified is people in that group getting dawn raided at 6am, losing wages, their jobs, their livelihoods for singing a song at the football or for "allegedly" behaving in an aggressive or threatening manner when at a match. What a lot of people on this forum don't see is what goes on away from the football stadium. The court cases, the waste of public resources and public spending that goes in to quite simply intimidating and antagonising predominately young boys who only want to vocally and visually back their team. The numbers in that End Section of the East Stand are slowly dropping and its because young lads are getting dragged through the legal system, only to be spat out at the other end, more often than not with a not guilty verdict after suffering months of trauma and worry.

Aberdeen supporters displayed a Heavy Hands Empty Stands banner at the weekend. 'Well fans not allowed drum or flags in to Pittodrie and home fans not allowed megaphone.

The legislation wasn't brought in to stop us from banging a drum, you are spot on there. It was rushed through parliament following the "Shame Game" when Lennon and McCoist were head to head on the touchline to try and look like the Scottish Gov were actively tackling sectarianism. The reality is the lack of thought behind the bill has resulting in the legislation being so vague that you can be criminalised for almost anything at all as long as someone finds it "offensive". It's clear not everyone will agree and thats the joys of democracy but as a "group" we would most likely side with fans of all clubs; Rangers, Celtic, Accies, Airdrie etc. if it meant highlighting the draconian measures that a certain demographic of society have to face when travelling to watch their team. It's not always going to be popular and it may result in some being disappointed with our actions. That's not easy for us, we want our fans on side but it's an issue we are determined to bring to light. Was it the correct way to go about it? Debatable. What I can say though is when there was the silent protest at Fir Park a few weeks ago the main stream media completely ignored it. Saturday's incident has been covered by The Evening Times, The Herald and STV. It might not make any jot of a difference to those currently reviewing the act but it has certainly got people talking about it again.

I completely agree with you Andy. I think most involved with the group would be the first to tell you they are extremely grateful of any donation we have received in the past from 'Well fans from this forum and fans who have donated in person. What's important to note is that we often put our hands in our own pockets for displays and when we are in need of funding we usually try to specify exactly what it's for. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread I can completely understand why people don't like the idea of "standing side by side with the Green Brigade". The reasons, like mentioned in here by many forum users, are obvious as to why people don't like the Green Brigade. What's being overlooked here is this isn't just the Well Bois standing side by side with them, in fact it's far from it. Rangers have openly spoke out about the act, when we've called for unity we've seen St Johnstone, Hibernian and others display banners, I'm sure this won't be the last "joint action" between sets of supporters over this. I'm massively against this bill as I believe it's dangerous. The conviction rate highlights how much of a joke it is. More than half of the cases fail and those that deliver a guilty verdict are often found guilty straight away as young supporters are encouraged by police and lawyers to plead guilty just to get it over with. Most fans that do challenge it often see the charges overturned but it's the legal fees, time off work, names printed in papers that can be emotionally draining, time consuming and often career threatening. I'm not daft, I know some people act like clowns at the football but many don't. Not every supporter wants to sit in silence and watch the game. Some like to push the boundaries and openly display their passion, especially teenagers or young adults. Aside from the bill I think there needs to be a complete overhaul in the way that football matches in this country are policed. There's a real inconsistency which varies from stadium to stadium. Heavy handed policing and stewarding alongside rising ticket prices are driving people away from football, clubs should be doing more to cater for fans.

That may be correct MJW however there was legislation in place to tackle sectarianism before this introduction of the football bill in 2012. We have seen Hamilton supporters prosecuted for singing "Well, Well, Fuck yer Well". Regardless of your opinion on this song a 17 year old getting fined thousands of pounds and having a criminal record for life isn't justifiable for his actions.

MJW, I think the statement released via the Heavy Hands Empty Stands Facebook answers your question when it states: "As supporters of Motherwell Football Club we would like to stress that it is not easy for us to stand shoulder to shoulder with supporters with Celtic, Rangers or any other Scottish club for that matter. It should be noted however that sometimes the colour of your scarf should be put aside for the greater good." The sad reality is we live in the West of Scotland which in my opinion is one of the only places on earth where football supporters wouldn't be able to see past their own prejudice for a greater good. Whilst I can understand people's reservations on ever siding with the Old Firm it's important to have a think about why this was done. Kids from all over Scotland are getting dragged through the courts and having their futures pulled away from under their feet for singing a song at the fitba. The sooner this Act is binned the better.

It's not been the best start to the season both on the park and in the stands. The Well Bois have a small core group who go week in week out, when we are playing well the numbers in our section swell and when we are struggling the numbers decline. Unfortunately that's just the way it is at the moment. For some reason our away support always tends to be louder and more energetic. It has always been our aim to bring more colour and noise to Fir Park and we will continue to do so. As always we would encourage others to get involved, come and sit in alongside us and help contribute to making Fir Park more enjoyable.

Surely you are not actually being serious? This is a complete overreaction from the league who have felt the need to respond to a sensationalist media campaign. The only act of "unacceptable conduct'. Had the Moshni incident not happened this wouldn't even be getting discussed. Did we see a fine for St Johnstone a couple of years ago when both set of supporters, home and away, invaded the pitch? Of course we didn't! Take Rangers out the equation and it's not an issue. The club took all necessary precautions and do not deserve a fine.

I like him at full-back. COF hit the nail on the head when he said if every player had Law's mentality we wouldn't be 11th. Gives 100% every week and that's all you can ask for!

The players should be showing appreciation to the supporters who pay their hard earned cash week in week out regardless of the result. Even more so when its the longest away trip of the season. A quick clap then down the tunnel is poor. All over the globe you see fans celebrating with fans after victories and talking to fans after defeats. Have a look at this from Dortmund fans and players a couple of weeks ago after their defeat to a very poor side: My link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aAeVlACFzg Hate to admit it but Ronny Delia is the perfect example of how it should be done. Every away game he makes sure all players go to the supporters, link arms and give them a cheer. It's simple yet effective. It highlights that everyone is in it together. The scenes last year at Aberdeen were excellent but we need more of that.

The lad Grant on loan from Everton looked very good. Despite the keeper letting in 3 goals he looked decent also. Hopefully the new lads will fit in and hit the ground running in the next few weeks but don't want that to mean the likes of Moore, Carswell and Thomas miss out as they are more than capable. Real disappointment for me yesterday was the fact that only 1 player came over to the travelling fans at the end of the match. Fair play John Sutton! Off the pitch things seem positive but performances on the pitch need to improve dramatically ASAP!

AndyP hits the nail on the head. Murphy is a moron. Bringing booze back is a must. Clubs in our country need the revenue!

I think tickle pickle hit the nail on the head by saying its a team effort. Those who sit in that section of the East Stand want nothing more than the noise and passion to spread throughout Fir Park but understand its not everyone's cup of tea. I'd say the numbers tend to be growing year on year mainly with the younger generations wanting to be part of it. Personally I would like to see a few older heads getting involved. At big cup games, euro ties, away games you tend to find people more than happy to be part of the action but its really the run of the mill home games against Killie, ICT, St Mirren etc where the team would benefit from a bit more vocal back in my opinion.

Well fans end of season video now online. Enjoy!

It's quite simple for me. If a pub was charging £8 for a pint & wouldn't let you wear the clothes you feel comfortable wearing then you wouldn't go to that pub. Football clubs take advantage of fans emotional attachment & won't change unless hit where it hurts which in the current climate is in gate receipts. There was a successful boycott of tannadice last season which seen DUFC lose £1000s in gate receipts. This season they were excellent hosts & let Well fans bring their drum, stand, sing & enjoy the game in the manner in which they wanted. It's about time fans stood for change. We are very fortunate that our club have a very healthy relationship with their supporters & are active in promoting a better match day experience for all. We shouldn't let other clubs take our money for granted.

Always put off going to Celtic Park for the obvious reasons but as others have said its the best chance we've had to take something from the game. No Motherwell drum allowed in Celtic Park this Saturday....

Why do they have to be any of these terms? Why can't they just be labelled Motherwell fans? It only seems to be the media and those not involved who are giving them these tags.