steelboy

Do Virgin Money have a shareholder who own 71% of the shares?

He posted it four weeks ago.

When we have a Society vote we are talking about the Society. Look at it this way. If you take a guesstimate 8m valuation of the club then the Well Society currently has assets of £5.7 million just in terms of shares in the club, plus the loans to the club plus the cash in the bank. So somewhere in the region of assets of £7m. If there is a share issue which hands the Americans a controlling interest (51%) the value of the Well Society shareholding - keeping the same valuation - drops to £1.6m. So you are talking about the Well Society giving up assets worth £4 million. Obviously it should require a majority of Well Society members in favour to make that decision.

Motherwell supporting Herald sports writer Graham McGarry has a column up about the potential investment. Bolded bits are most relevant imo https://www.heraldscotland.com/newsletters/bulletin/2605/?nid=2605&ref=eb

Every Society member owns 1 voting share in the Society. Having effectively proportional representation makes no sense. It opens up the possibility that the Well Society members could vote 70% against the takeover but the overall shareholders vote goes in favour of it. In that scenario the Society assets are hugely reduced in value against the wishes of the membership. If you wanted a direct vote the shares were on sale dirt cheap not long ago.

As far as I can tell the club legally has three directors. So there are two people on the Executive Board who aren't directors.

No shareholders need to approve that.

Jay from the Society board posted this on P&B on the 5th of March. So the Well Society don't have control over the Executive Board despite owning 70% of the club. McMahon is one of the three non WS Executive Board members, the other two are a mystery to me and don't seem to be listed anywhere on the club website. Again this is another example of why we are miles away from being able to have an informed and responsible debate about any proposals. There's very little accurate information available about the club and Society's financial position and structure and there are a lot of wrong assumptions out there amongst the support which is entirely down to the club and Society choosing to keep us in the dark. The argument has always been that Society members don't need to be involved in the day to day decision making of the club which everyone agrees with but the structure and overall financial position of the Society and club should be available and easy to understand for members. I'd like to see the Society set out a few points which I think would clear things up. 1. The overall profit/loss since the Society became majority shareholders. I've seen people say on P&B that we are in profit over the period, other people say it's unsustainable. Which is it? 2. What is the playing budget and add some context because £2.3m or £2.8m doesn't really mean much but pointing out clubs which spend a roughly equivalent amount in Scotland, England and Europe would give us a good idea of where we stand. 3. How much funding have the Society given the club directly and in loans? How much have the Society given to the Community Trust? 4. Why do the Society board feel we are best represented by having a minority position on the club executive board? If the Society board answer these questions we would all have a clearer idea of how fan ownership is working.

The total wage bill for the club is £5 million per year. The player wage bill is far higher than £1.5m per season. As I pointed out the other day we reported a (slightly) higher turnover and wage bill than our new CEO's old club Shrewsbury Town who are midtable in League One in England. It suits the club to have the support thinking we are operating on a shoe string budget but it's not true at all.

Playing side versus off field. Other than the takeover and the pitch fiasco I think the non playing side has been fine. It's all worth bearing in mind that the Well Society doesn't have majority control of the executive board. The club has been run by the exact same clique of people for the past 20 years. So blaming the Well Society for level of investment in corporate facilities is a clear sign someone doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

So we are underperforming by out massively out performing Dundee United, Dunfermline and Falkirk? You've not been near Fir Park in years but know exactly what the Society are doing wrong? Nae bother mate.

An utterly ridiculous statement from the Society. Nothing to do with them apparently, they are only the majority shareholder. McMahon and Dickie leading Feely around by the nose.

https://www.mwe.com/insights/taxation-of-foreign-branches-after-tax-reform/ So if we make a profit they make money and if we make a loss they claim it off their US tax bill. That's why all the American owners appeared on the scene at the same time.

I posted the rumour that is going about from people who usually have good info. I don't think that's unreasonable on a fans forum. The rest of it is fact. The full process has been a shambles. Just the fact that they held a binding members vote then a week later came out and announced they didn't have up to date contact details is a total farce.

Aye it's the gie us some dosh bit. And it's not like the wean is ad libbing it's all scripted. Putting out a video suggesting we require American investment when they were in talks with a potential American investor is extremely dubious.

I think it's reasonable to assume anyone begging for money is skint.

How do you know there's nothing illegal in it? We don't actually know who paid for the video. Having a video that says we are skint is talking down the value of the business. As I said with a listed company 100% illegal, with us who knows. Also need to question why the Society said ok to the video. Conviently we can't ask these obvious questions because they refuse to hold a members meeting.

I looked the P&B thread there and the question is being asked why Americans would want to get involved. The likely answer is because Trump's tax reform in 2017 allows international business expenses to be written off against American tax bills.

And who's fault is that 3 months in we know fuck all?

I'd like to see someone ask big banker McMahon if it's legal for a chairman to pay for a marketing campaign suggesting a business has cash flow problems during a takeover. If we were a listed company then it would highly illegal but our ownership model is bespoke so who knows.....

Can I buy your motor for £100? House for £500. Don't be so stupid. I take it you are the guy who answers the emails from Nigerian princes?

30% of the club for £300k? The club is easily worth £8-9m.

The rumour is they want majority control but it happens gradually over a few years. Which to me means they want access to the Society funds for as long as there is any.

Also it stinks that this has been going for months and there hadn't been a society members meeting to discuss what's happening. Surely they don't think they can just give the club away via a few emails?

The rumour going about is that they only want to put in £300,000 a year for five years and are talking about bringing in more investors later. Society members would need to be stupid to vote for that. Any credible buyer would pay what the club is worth. It also has to be questioned why the Society are still fundraising when this is moving forward.