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john_M_F_C

The "being Offensive At The Fitba' Bill"

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Just seen the news reports on the telly about the new anti sectarian laws that are being introduced.

 

Yet the main police officer talking about it said he would not say what a sectarian song was and would leave it to the courts.

 

Now to me this means that if he will not say what is sectarian then he and his officers cannot arrest anyone and therfore the bigot brothers will get away with spewing their normal bile

 

Sorry for the rant but I'm just totally pissed off by this contradiction

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put a thread about this in the club chat, its not an anti-sectarian bill at all, it's an anit anything that might offend somebody in anyway with anything to do with the football bill.

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Would be cheaper to hire a ferry to transport the howkers one way to the Emerald Isle and the currants to Holland or wherever else they fancy.

 

Am I going to jail now?

 

Long and short, this has been stirred up by senior cops wanting to ensure budgets in times of austerity, politicians have danced to their tune.

 

Best open up Hampden to a universal rammy (pitched on their forums as "if you don't show up, you're a poof") and let them all kill each other, job solved.

 

The rest of us can live in the 21st century and worry about the standard of our kids schooling rather than the schools name or affiliation.

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Sit down and shut the fuck up or your lifted seems to be jist of that.For a country that has no problem sending our service men and women all over the world to die for other peoples freedoms we seem to live in a country where there is a draconian law to fit every eventuality.

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Well it doesn't just cover Sektarianizm but any form of 'abuse'

 

So calling Eberdeen fans "mutton-molesters" and the like can be seen as offensive as you are abusing them on their sexual orientation. :evilgrin:

 

Sadly, the polis will be all to happy at huckling folk from FP, Rugby Park etc and banning them or locking them up all the while turning a blind eye (and ear) to the 'songs of the old cuntry' sang at Ipox and The Piggery.

 

Pile of shite!

 

As every day goes by, it feels as though we no longer live in a 'free country'.

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The behaviour is—

(a) expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, a group of persons based on

their membership (or presumed membership) of—

(i) a religious group,

(ii) a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation,

(iii) a group defined by reference to a thing mentioned in subsection (4),

(b) expressing hatred of, or stirring up hatred against, an individual based on the

individual’s membership (or presumed membership) of a group mentioned in any

of sub-paragraphs (i) to (iii) of paragraph (a),

© behaviour that is motivated (wholly or partly) by hatred of a group mentioned in

any of those sub-paragraphs,

(d) behaviour that is threatening, or

(e) other behaviour that a reasonable person would be likely to consider offensive.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (2)(a) and (b) it is irrelevant whether the hatred is also

based (to any extent) on any other factor.

(4) The things referred to in subsection (2)(a)(iii) are—

 

 

Who goes to the football to be reasonable?

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Thank you the SNP and everyone who voted for them

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So lets get this right...despite the media coverage and deep rooted problems of bigotry in our society, the Bill is not intended to eradicate sectarianism but rather improve behaviour at football matches? Am I missing something here?

 

Imagine if you will 2 yobs sitting half cut and opposite each other in a railway carriage, both making offensive sectarian remarks to fellow passengers. One has a football scarf on and one doesn't. The former is going to a match and the latter has no interest in football. Under this intended piece of legislation the football "fan" would be committing an offence whilst his fellow yob wouldn't be???

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Following on Kmcalpin's point::

Does that mean that all persons wearing celtic strips or green and white at Republican marches or Rangers strips at Orange walks will be arrested.

 

:thumbup:

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I'm a huge fan of Alex Salmond and the SNP ............ but this has so many holes in it, it's unreal.

 

Rushed legislation with input from who ? OB who've shat their pants at games involving the Mauldeez, and football bureaucrats who've never stood on a football terrace with their feet soaked in pies and pissh

:wallbash:

 

Why not seek the input of football fans, especially those with rap-sheets for the very offences they are trying to eradicate.

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I predict a diddy team supporter being the first arrest under this new legislation and paraded as an example of how it is working.

 

Then it'll never be heard again.

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I really applaud what Alex Salmond is trying to do but it does all seem too rushed for the new season and a little too "scattergun" in its approach. The big problem they'll continue to have is what we've all witnessed....police standing there, watching the mob singing their sectarian filth and doing nothing about it.

 

I think it's a brilliant idea, I really do...but the execution's just so flimsy I don't see how it's going to have any real impact.

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I don't have the answers by any means, so I'm simply asking a question here...but what would everyone else do differently from the proposed measures...only asking as it seems a lot of people seem to have a hell of a lot of opinions and supposedly better ideas than our national government...so please, feel free to raise them.

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I predict a diddy team supporter being the first arrest under this new legislation and paraded as an example of how it is working.

 

Then it'll never be heard again.

 

 

I really applaud what Alex Salmond is trying to do but it does all seem too rushed for the new season and a little too "scattergun" in its approach. The big problem they'll continue to have is what we've all witnessed....police standing there, watching the mob singing their sectarian filth and doing nothing about it.

I think it's a brilliant idea, I really do...but the execution's just so flimsy I don't see how it's going to have any real impact.

 

Sadly I see this legislation being used for the wrong reasons ie. controlling crowds at football matches.

 

My example earlier - someone standing up shouting "intae these sheep-shagging bastards!" :O Who then stands up the rest of the game.

 

Steward: "Sit doon."

Fan: "Naw"

Steward: "You're offending those Aberdeen fans wi' yer shoutin'. I'll away an' get the polis"

 

Fan is huckled, arrested and done under the shiny new legislation.

 

Sektarianizm is Society's problem, no' just Fitba's.

 

Get it?

 

:doh:

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Thank you the SNP and everyone who voted for them

 

I don't know if you are being serious or not but if not singing rape songs at David Goodwillie is the 'price' I have to pay for all the good things the SNP have introduced in the last 4 years I think I can live with it.

 

I do actually have 'theoretical' concerns about this bill but if anyone is to blame then point a finger at the SFA/SPL who buried their head in the sand for long and weary and forced the government into a position where, in order to give the nation any credibility at all, it had to be seen to act, and act quickly and with authority.

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abuse a footballer and you can get five years in jail. however if you're a footballer and send pictures of your knob to a 12 year old you'll get a fine. makes perfect sense.

 

i voted snp but they have made an arse of this. instead of trying to deal with the issues that cause sectarianism they are just giving themselves a tool to hammer people who express it plus a wee present for the polis so they can harrass football fans at will. the parliament has done a lot of good things but it's horribly small minded. they shat themselves at the assisted dieing bill (supported by 85% of the public), they tried to extend licensing hours and ended up reducing them and now this. it's all about telling people what they can't do and reducing choice when it should be the other way around.

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As if we thought anything else would happen :rolleyes: Politicians should keep the fuck out of fitba' but in this instance they've been forced to by inaction from the football authorities. Typically they seem to have gone out of their way to avoid targetting the very people who need targetting. Maybe scared the Old Firm would plead victimisation (well I know one half would) :whistling:

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I don't have the answers by any means, so I'm simply asking a question here...but what would everyone else do differently from the proposed measures...only asking as it seems a lot of people seem to have a hell of a lot of opinions and supposedly better ideas than our national government...so please, feel free to raise them.

 

I'm no lawyer and so won't attempt to asess the Bill in detail, but it strikes me that some of these offences are already covered under other existing legislation.

 

Given the media headline coverage I thought that the Bill was dealing purely with religious sectarianism in its broadest sense ie it wasn't being restricted to football matches. I don't see why it can't be made to do so. Sectarianism at football is only part of a wider problem in Scotland and culprits are not 90 minute bigots. The Scottish Government on this occasion has decided to side step that very controversial and potentially vote losing issue. Football may be the most obvious manifestation of religious bigotry but its only the tip of the iceberg. If the SG had been serious about tackling it then the Bill would have applied to to society in general. That, in my eyes is its biggest failing and amounts to a fundamental and fatal weakness.

 

One other point about about offensive communications (presumbaly the internet) - my understanding on reading the Bill is that someone could still spout offensive religious bile on the net but as long as it was simply offensive and NOT likely to cause fear or alarm then it would be ok.

 

Quite apart from all this it will be very interesting to see just how the Police apply it.

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The Scottish Human Rights group Take A Liberty have started a petition against the new proposals

 

If you want to find out what they are saying follow the line below

 

Take a Liberty web site

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abuse a footballer and you can get five years in jail.

 

you *can* get can five years in jail. On the other hand a judge might give you a slap on the wrist and a few hours community service.

 

however if you're a footballer and send pictures of your knob to a 12 year old you'll get a fine. makes perfect sense.

 

you *can* get a fine. On the other hand a judge might give you 5 years in jail.

 

See? The maximum sentences set out are just that; maximum sentences. That's why we have judges in place who take all the factors into account before making a decision on the appropriate punishment for each case.

 

On the plus side, it does give amateur, on-line contrarians (and Daily Mail readers) the opportunity to make specious arguments.

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Are they intending on hauling out 5000 fans at football games (for an example, the majority of the green brigade), or just ignoring the mass of fans and targeting one person every few months?

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