Steve Diggle Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Absolutely top post nwf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 agreed - i thought these kind of things were what the Well Society would have a vote on? Not a peep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I would hope the Society would pass on the obvious feelings of the membership before the club decides on a stance, but I would also expect that someone is called to account if they don't act according to the majority wishes on such important matters. For me that's the only real benefit of the Society at the moment, early days I know but we get to call out someone if we don't like what's happening therefore I would hope we are consulted on such issues if only to protect positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 just saw in my email that there is a meeting tomorrow night. i can't say that i'm enthused after the last one but i'm having some problems getting money back that was mistakenly taken out my bank account so i'll be attending. hopefully there will be some discussion of the society's approach to reconstruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Your annual subscription or Club but not WS related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Your annual subscription or Club but not WS related? the original money to join the society. they took eight standing order payments from my bank account rather than four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 If it's a Standing Order then I think it's the bank's fault for paying out too much and you should try and sort it out with them directly. If it's a Direct Debit, then it's the Society's fault for requesting too many payments, and they will need to refund you. Either way, it's a complete pain, but in the past I have had much quicker resolutions to Standing Order mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 the original money to join the society. they took eight standing order payments from my bank account rather than four. Ooft. Aye that should be dealt with as a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 If it's a Standing Order then I think it's the bank's fault for paying out too much and you should try and sort it out with them directly. If it's a Direct Debit, then it's the Society's fault for requesting too many payments, and they will need to refund you. Either way, it's a complete pain, but in the past I have had much quicker resolutions to Standing Order mistakes. the bank said it's the other way around. if it was a direct debit they would sort it but because it's a standing order i need to sort it from the well society end. when i filled in the form motherwell said it would be fine to make 3 payments then take 4 months off then make the final payment but money went out in june, july, august and september when it shouldn't have. i've been trying to get the money back for weeks but the club accountant has been on bereavement leave and apparently 6 weeks isn't enough time for them to set up a facility to take money out the 'well society account. i also tried to point out that leeann dempster was making a big deal about the club footing the admin costs of the society and asked if they couldn't refund me then get the money back from the society account in their own time but that's 'not possible'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 the bank said it's the other way around. if it was a direct debit they would sort it but because it's a standing order i need to sort it from the well society end. when i filled in the form motherwell said it would be fine to make 3 payments then take 4 months off then make the final payment but money went out in june, july, august and september when it shouldn't have. Been a few years since I worked in the bank but in my experience an agreement which accommodates x months off before a final payment does not fit well with the purpose of a standing order mandate. The only way round this, again to my knowledge, would have been to set up 2 different mandates. The Bank are powerless to claiming money back from standing orders so yes I'm afraid it is the club you have to pursue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Probably just banks being banks then. I had issues in the past with a Direct Debit to an insurance company. When they took my payment out twice (on more than one occasion) the bank told me that a Direct Debit is basically a contract that allowed the insurance company to take out payments whenever they wanted and the bank couldn't stop them. If the Standing Order was set up to pay out 4 times and the bank paid out 8 times, then it's the bank's error, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 A direct debit gives them the option to take the money. But if its incorrectly taken or too much is taken the the dd guarentee set up by the banks allows your bank to pull that money back straight away. (indemnity claim) They might allow it, but my bank told me I had to sort it out with the insurance company myself. Aye, that was you, Bank of Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I can 100% assure you that the error was with your bank, unless the mandate was completed incorrectly. Also, the bank can get your money back, but normally we do tell the customer to go to the beneficiary as they are likely to get it back to you quicker. We have to write to the beneficiary and wait for them to send the funds back to us before we can re-imburse the customer. If it had been a direct debit, the bank would have got you your cash back on the day you raised the query then chase the company for it. The only down side of that system is that if we chase it for six months and don't get it, we whip it back from you. If I was you I would make a formal complaint to your bank and continue to chase MFC for the cash. You should be looking at a small amount of compensation but every little helps, especially at this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 i got a cheque from fir park today so that's it sorted. it was definitely an error with the bank processing the standing order form so i'll be more aware of that in future. i'll be attending the meeting tonight anyway, it'll be interesting to see what direction the society board members are planning on moving in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 a much better meeting last night with about 100 in attendance. graham barnstaple chaired the meeting very well and the other board members seemed positive and enthusiastic. the main issue at the meeting was establishing lines of communication amongst the members and to the society board and if they get that right it should hopefully become an active and visible group working alongside the club. it was announced that the society will elect two members to the mfc board for terms of two years in the new year to replace john boyle and stewart robertson who will be officially removed. there was a bit of debate about whether their should be further elections or whether it should be two of the society board who join the club board but most people seemed to agree that it would make the most sense for two society board members to join the club board. the next step is co-opting another 3 people onto the society board then electing our representatives onto the club board. the first point of the night was to establish that the primary aim of the society is to achieve fan ownership of the club. i was happy to hear that but disappointed to see that the society would have to raise £1.5m (another £1,120,000) before fan ownership is a reality. there were a few members who seemed very keen to lead the way in fundraising and bringing in businesses (only one has invested at the moment) but it still seems like an awful lot of money and considering that the initial push only raised 25% of the total required i'm pessimistic about when we will reach this amount. i find it strange that the trustees can tell the society that it needs £1.5m to take control of the club while they are running the club with no capital, no intention of investing their own capital and expecting to use the society's money to finance their running of the club. there should be scope to negotiate on this in the future. the society currently has funds equivalent to 15% of the club but it wasn't clear whether shares will be transferred to the society as the amount raised increases or if boyle's full 71% will be handed over in one go if/when the £1.5m is raised. the other aims of the society are to attract more members (we only have 600 odd adult members at the moment so this should be doable), to raise as much money as possible and to transmit the views of the membership to the club. graham barnstaple mentioned the current reconstruction debate as an example of the final point but was a bit vague about what the society might do in regards to it. considering that the spl are moving ahead with these plans it would be good if the society could establish if we have a position on this issue and if so what it is. a lot of people feel strongly about this issue and it's nationally high profile so it could be a good opportunity to showcase the society in action and attract more members. overall it was a very positive start and there are a lot of areas in which the society can contribute. it'll be interesting to see in 12 months time if the funds held or the membership has increased by much and if the society members on the board have improved transparency and communication. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think the people willing to join to begin with (and who had the cash) have joined. I think there will be a few people out there who will be waiting to see how it is run and whether it carries any influence. That's where I think the club are missing a trick here with regards to the whole reconstruction debate. I think if the people who are swaying in their minds whether to join or not saw that the views of the Well Society shaped board decisions then they may be inclined to get involved. I think a member vote on the SPL proposals would be great PR for the Well Society but I'm not holding my breath and I think that's a great shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Fans group eyes seats on Motherwell board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think the people willing to join to begin with (and who had the cash) have joined. I think there will be a few people out there who will be waiting to see how it is run and whether it carries any influence. That's where I think the club are missing a trick here with regards to the whole reconstruction debate. I think if the people who are swaying in their minds whether to join or not saw that the views of the Well Society shaped board decisions then they may be inclined to get involved. I think a member vote on the SPL proposals would be great PR for the Well Society but I'm not holding my breath and I think that's a great shame. if there is a will in the society for a vote on reconstruction and an official position it could happen no problem. the only problem is that this has possibly come too soon before lines of communication have been properly established. i agree that it would be great pr for the society and would bring some media attention. the vote in the summer turned a bad situation into something positive and acting on this issue in a similar way would mark out motherwell as the most forward thinking club in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmfc Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Does anyone know if there is an e-mail address available where you can suggest ideas for fundraising for the Well Society? Couldn't make the meeting last night and would like to put forward a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East_Stand_Al Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Does anyone know if there is an e-mail address available where you can suggest ideas for fundraising for the Well Society? Couldn't make the meeting last night and would like to put forward a suggestion. Not as yet but if you send it to Alison.Wallace@motherwellfc.co.uk she is the brillaint designated admin contact and will be ensure it gets to the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andalg Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Lets try and stay positive folks. The well Society may not be perfect but give it a chance. I joined when the club voted against Rangers Newco being allowed in to the SPL the feeling at the time was if the clubs stood up for what the fans wanted we would back the club as much as we could. I don't regret joining and hope my continued membership helps the club we love survive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghorn Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Does anyone know if there is an e-mail address available where you can suggest ideas for fundraising for the Well Society? Couldn't make the meeting last night and would like to put forward a suggestion. Looks like there might be a fundraising sub committee formed as this generated some good debate last night. Aims would be to increase individual membership, look at corporate memberships, and provide a route for additional contributions and income to be captured. The board also have the task of making the funds (which were due to be in the control of the society today) work for us to generate income from it. During the evening Leanne Dempster was very open in her responses to questions and I felt that she is aware that we as a Society deserved honesty and treated the members as part of the club. Early days but looks like the board have the commitment and drive to move things on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 a much better meeting last night with about 100 in attendance. graham barnstaple chaired the meeting very well and the other board members seemed positive and enthusiastic. the main issue at the meeting was establishing lines of communication amongst the members and to the society board and if they get that right it should hopefully become an active and visible group working alongside the club. it was announced that the society will elect two members to the mfc board for terms of two years in the new year to replace john boyle and stewart robertson who will be officially removed. there was a bit of debate about whether their should be further elections or whether it should be two of the society board who join the club board but most people seemed to agree that it would make the most sense for two society board members to join the club board. the next step is co-opting another 3 people onto the society board then electing our representatives onto the club board. the first point of the night was to establish that the primary aim of the society is to achieve fan ownership of the club. i was happy to hear that but disappointed to see that the society would have to raise £1.5m (another £1,120,000) before fan ownership is a reality. there were a few members who seemed very keen to lead the way in fundraising and bringing in businesses (only one has invested at the moment) but it still seems like an awful lot of money and considering that the initial push only raised 25% of the total required i'm pessimistic about when we will reach this amount. i find it strange that the trustees can tell the society that it needs £1.5m to take control of the club while they are running the club with no capital, no intention of investing their own capital and expecting to use the society's money to finance their running of the club. there should be scope to negotiate on this in the future. the society currently has funds equivalent to 15% of the club but it wasn't clear whether shares will be transferred to the society as the amount raised increases or if boyle's full 71% will be handed over in one go if/when the £1.5m is raised. the other aims of the society are to attract more members (we only have 600 odd adult members at the moment so this should be doable), to raise as much money as possible and to transmit the views of the membership to the club. graham barnstaple mentioned the current reconstruction debate as an example of the final point but was a bit vague about what the society might do in regards to it. considering that the spl are moving ahead with these plans it would be good if the society could establish if we have a position on this issue and if so what it is. a lot of people feel strongly about this issue and it's nationally high profile so it could be a good opportunity to showcase the society in action and attract more members. overall it was a very positive start and there are a lot of areas in which the society can contribute. it'll be interesting to see in 12 months time if the funds held or the membership has increased by much and if the society members on the board have improved transparency and communication. As someone from overseas thanks for that report steelboy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 As someone from overseas thanks for that report steelboy. A positive meeting last night, with good open discussion. A recurring theme throughout the evening was that the Society Board want members to be involved, in different ways. There were many issues raised and we were left in no doubt that if we don't like aspects of the rules we can, within reason, change them. Members shouldn't sit back and wait to be spoon fed and then complain when matters don't go their way. The Board will be open to comments and suggestions so make them. Communication is a two way process. Someone also made the important point from the body of the kirk about communication with members living away from Fir Park. They have to be involved. A lot of good points made and I'm hopeful the Board will listen and communicate with everyone. We have some clued up folk on the Board and thats half the battle. What came across to me was how complex a process the setting up of the organisation has been and how much time has been taken up with that, through necessity. No doubt the Society will evolve and rules and / regulations will change but thats up to the rank and file to identify issues constructively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 There were many issues raised and we were left in no doubt that if we don't like aspects of the rules we can, within reason, change them. Members shouldn't sit back and wait to be spoon fed and then complain when matters don't go their way. The Board will be open to comments and suggestions so make them. Communication is a two way process. Someone also made the important point from the body of the kirk about communication with members living away from Fir Park. They have to be involved. i agree with that. it's vital to keep the members engaged and make potential members feel that they will gain something by joining. if the society can demonstrate that it can make a difference and maintain momentum towards it's goals then i think the support will get behind it. creating a way to communicate and establish a consensus online so every member is able to participate if they choose to do so is the most important thing. everyone has to be involved not just those who are willing/able to attend meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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