Spiderpig Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 As a non member and committed sceptic of the WS it seems that the whole focus has moved from the original concept i.e. fans joiing and committing financially to evenually be part owners of the club. Now it seem that all that the contributions from existing and new members seem to be doing is servicing the loan from Mr Hutchison a loan that the club negotiated, i wish i could negotiate a loan spend the cash and get others to pay it back for me. If and when the loan to LH is repayed is the money owed to John Boyle next for the members to pay off, it begs the question that when all the monies owed are repayed will there be any left to run the club, assuming the WS has purchased the majority shareholding by then as was envisaged by the original concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 As a non member and committed sceptic of the WS it seems that the whole focus has moved from the original concept i.e. fans joiing and committing financially to evenually be part owners of the club. Now it seem that all that the contributions from existing and new members seem to be doing is servicing the loan from Mr Hutchison a loan that the club negotiated, i wish i could negotiate a loan spend the cash and get others to pay it back for me. If and when the loan to LH is repayed is the money owed to John Boyle next for the members to pay off, it begs the question that when all the monies owed are repayed will there be any left to run the club, assuming the WS has purchased the majority shareholding by then as was envisaged by the original concept. The members need the details of the agreement with Hutchinson and the current financial situation of the society. Signing away all the money raised is sickening. It's surely possible that McCaffertty being Club chairman and Society chairman creates a conflict of interest that invalidates the agreement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 As a non member and committed sceptic of the WS it seems that the whole focus has moved from the original concept i.e. fans joiing and committing financially to evenually be part owners of the club. Now it seem that all that the contributions from existing and new members seem to be doing is servicing the loan from Mr Hutchison a loan that the club negotiated, i wish i could negotiate a loan spend the cash and get others to pay it back for me. If and when the loan to LH is repayed is the money owed to John Boyle next for the members to pay off, it begs the question that when all the monies owed are repayed will there be any left to run the club, assuming the WS has purchased the majority shareholding by then as was envisaged by the original concept. The club is, I believe, servicing the loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The club is, I believe, servicing the loan. If thats true then fair enough but from the snippets of info on here it looks like the cash may be coming from the WS funds is there definite proof that the club is servicing the loan? I assume the members have asked these questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Someone who was at a Q&A can answer better than me - although I believe there are details published somewhere too. From memory, though, the loan was made ot the club and the club is supposed to service the loan. Once the loan is paid off, the Society buys the majority shareholding. I think there is provision in there for the Society to make up the shortfall if the club fails to make a full repayment, but nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The Club may be servicing the loan, but if they pay back part of the loan and then take money from the Society then it is the WS paying the loan. Of course, if the the club pay back the WS then, and only then are they serving the loan(s) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Where are folk getting info the WS is paying the loan? I can't mind seeing anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 From the Well Society FAQ page The agreement also involves the Well Society making any repayments of Les Hutchison’s initial £650,000 loan which the club is unable to make. By playing its part to the agreement, the society will be able to ‘buy’ the club from Les for £1 on or before 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 As far as I know (which may be wrong), the club can't take any money from the Society. Only borrow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 As far as I know (which may be wrong), the club can't take any money from the Society. Only borrow it. They got round that by selling shares to the society at a ridiculous price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The last post on page 64 (#1280 http://www.steelmenonline.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=12411&p=453581) illustrates how the club has to pay back Les' loan plus other outstanding debts over the next 4 years. If at any point during the repayment schedule the club can't meet the agreed amount, the shortfall is made up from WS funds. From memory, if the club is defaults either 2 or 3 times, the agreement is breached and Les can essentially do whatever he pleases (I say that as if that's not already what's happening). I'm sure I read in the Daily Mail article that the club had already defaulted on the first £40k payment, not many strikes left is that is the case. This agreement was made without consultation of the members and for me is an intrinsic part of the WS, it is scandalous it was allowed to be agreed to without at least a debate. I feel Mr McCafferty went overstepped his authority and beyond his remit during his secret negotiations over in Bothwell. What is equally worrying is the number of WS members who are currently completely in the dark over this. I also don't even want to guess what the activities at our last two transfer windows has done to the balance sheet. Think about all of this that when your DD's are continuing to go out and you're cyber mowing your virtual 1/1886th of the FP turf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 and you're cyber mowing your virtual 1/1886th of the FP turf. When I read that on the Society page my heart sank. If that is the sort of thing they are coming up with to entice new members I'll not get my hopes up for the rest of the recruitment drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I dunno about that, our change in fortunes has been because I've been paying 500 quid a week to get a cyber-game in the first team since the Celtic game. I've played well to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I win £71m on the Euromillions tomorrow night, I'm buying the Club immediately and ruling it with an Iron fist like Jesus Gil,Haciosmanoglu or Zamparini. Expect refs being kidnapped, SFA officials being intimidated and beaten, Refs paid off, Strippers and Coke parties in the boardroom on matchday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 They should have priced each plot based on the likelihood of a player scoring from there and had a prize if someone scored from your plot. If an opposition player scores from it you pay a forfeit, and if the referee sprays his stuff on it you get a free pack of razors. I see absolutely no holes in that idea at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 I win £71m on the Euromillions tomorrow night, I'm buying the Club immediately and ruling it with an Iron fist like Jesus Gil,Haciosmanoglu or Zamparini. Expect refs being kidnapped, SFA officials being intimidated and beaten, Refs paid off, Strippers and Coke parties in the boardroom on matchday. Sounds like a typical lower league Conference team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 They should have priced each plot based on the likelihood of a player scoring from there and had a prize if someone scored from your plot. If an opposition player scores from it you pay a forfeit, and if the referee sprays his stuff on it you get a free pack of razors. I see absolutely no holes in that idea at all. I read the terms and conditions, but it was still unclear if I will be able to use my plot to scatter the family's ashes in coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 They got round that by selling shares to the society at a ridiculous price. True, but that was a one-off transaction because, bizarrely, the Society structure was not allowed to make loan legally that year. Still boggles the mind that the lawyers didn't spot that one during creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Someone who was at a Q&A can answer better than me - although I believe there are details published somewhere too. From memory, though, the loan was made ot the club and the club is supposed to service the loan. Once the loan is paid off, the Society buys the majority shareholding. I think there is provision in there for the Society to make up the shortfall if the club fails to make a full repayment, but nothing more. Correct. It is explained on the WS site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 The last post on page 64 (#1280 http://www.steelmenonline.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=12411&p=453581) illustrates how the club has to pay back Les' loan plus other outstanding debts over the next 4 years. If at any point during the repayment schedule the club can't meet the agreed amount, the shortfall is made up from WS funds. From memory, if the club is defaults either 2 or 3 times, the agreement is breached and Les can essentially do whatever he pleases (I say that as if that's not already what's happening). I'm sure I read in the Daily Mail article that the club had already defaulted on the first £40k payment, not many strikes left is that is the case. This agreement was made without consultation of the members and for me is an intrinsic part of the WS, it is scandalous it was allowed to be agreed to without at least a debate. I feel Mr McCafferty went overstepped his authority and beyond his remit during his secret negotiations over in Bothwell. What is equally worrying is the number of WS members who are currently completely in the dark over this. I also don't even want to guess what the activities at our last two transfer windows has done to the balance sheet. Think about all of this that when your DD's are continuing to go out and you're cyber mowing your virtual 1/1886th of the FP turf. It's 3 strikes...and it was reported in the mail we missed the first one which was 40k and due in July. Since then we have paid 180k back to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Finally had a discussion with Tom Feely regarding my concerns. Have to say he came across as a genuine guy who shared many of our frustrations. Some of my questions regarding finances and Governance he was able to answer and others he needed to check out. We also discussed my (and some others) perception of the Society and the Board. There is a Society board meeting tomorrow and he promised to get back to me to supply more detailed answers and respond to a few suggestions/observations I made for Board consideration. When I hear how the Board respond to my comments I intend to share both my suggestions/comments and their response. Meantime, I can pass on the following information I was given which may be of interest. Doesn't answer everything, but it's a start. 1 Both Society and Club Boards recently agreed that more openness was essential. Some information is commercially sensitive, but wherever possible more effort will be made to keep us informed. The recent Chairman's update being a first attempt at this. 2 The payment of £180k to LH came from Club income and definitely not from Society Funds. Possibly transfer funds. 3 John Boyle is still owed a substantial amount (£350k?) from a Loan he provided. As long as the Club is adequately funded he is not looking for anything other than the agreed repayment schedule. He no longer holds any shares in MFC. 4 Les Hutchison and John Boyle hold Security over the Club's Assets and repayment of their loans is as laid out on schedule posted on this thread previously. 5 The £42 k donation from the Society to MFC related to a payment for benefits taken up by Society Members. The Club were due reimbursement from Renewal Fees as per an arrangement set up by Ms Dempster. A one off payment. 6 Several Loans have been made to MFC by The Society. None have been repaid as, when income has been received, it has been required elsewhere. It is still the intention that all Loan monies will eventually be returned to the Society. (Roll on Marv's £3m transfer to Arsenal!). I suggested that the Loans could no longer be regarded as short term and should therefore be Secured ASAP with The Society being included in the Bond and Floating Charge. We discussed Board Responsibilities, Perception, Communication, MFC's return to profitability and Mr Hutchison's influence. I followed up our meeting with a comprehensive Email which Tom agreed to present to the Board tomorrow. OK not an answer to everything and some stuff we either knew or suspected. But I was encouraged by Tom's willingness to listen to my concerns and take them forward. It was also positive to hear him say I could share our discussion with you guys. More to follow hopefully. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Good stuff Dennyc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Again, don't dispute people's hearts are in the right places but increasingly frustrating that it needs the throwing of dummies out the pram on here to prompt responses. Can you honestly say you feel you would have been contacted without voicing your concerns on here? As for the acceptance of poor communication and a resolve to fix it, heard that chestnut repeatedly over the past few years and yet to find myself doffing my cap in acquiescence. Denny, I think its safe to say your optimism and encouragement was mirrored by me 6 months ago. Now, I couldn't care less sadly. I really wanted the WS to work but can't find myself supporting it in its current format and with its current hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Again, don't dispute people's hearts are in the right places but increasingly frustrating that it needs the throwing of dummies out the pram on here to prompt responses. Can you honestly say you feel you would have been contacted without voicing your concerns on here? As for the acceptance of poor communication and a resolve to fix it, heard that chestnut repeatedly over the past few years and yet to find myself doffing my cap in acquiescence. Denny, I think its safe to say your optimism and encouragement was mirrored by me 6 months ago. Now, I couldn't care less sadly. I really wanted the WS to work but can't find myself supporting it in its current format and with its current hierarchy. Fair enough G&F and understandable. I'll just have to wait and see if Tom Feely's willingness to listen and attempt to effect change is shared by his Board colleagues. That's the real test I guess. I'm not ready to give in just yet, but thenI've not had the kick in the nuts you got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I win £71m on the Euromillions tomorrow night, I'm buying the Club immediately and ruling it with an Iron fist like Jesus Gil,Haciosmanoglu or Zamparini. Expect refs being kidnapped, SFA officials being intimidated and beaten, Refs paid off, Strippers and Coke parties in the boardroom on matchday. Need a director of Comms? I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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