Haggischomper Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 It's a fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted February 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Basic maths tells you that if you are playing the OF 8 times a season as opposed to 4 times, then you are going to lose a lot more points to them and slip even further behind. The new system, 2 x 12 becoming 3 x 8, actually takes away automatic promotion and relegation, it gives the bottom 4 a second chance at avoiding relegation against, arguably, weaker clubs. Clubs made weaker by the SPL ringfencing all the TV cash and leaving the rest of Senior Scottish Football to rot. In improving our game the SPL has failed miserably. Any league that does not have automatic promotion and relegation isn't a league in it's truest sense. It's a lottery, and one I wont be buying a ticket for. It's not very often I say this but you're spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Basic maths tells you that if you are playing the OF 8 times a season as opposed to 4 times, then you are going to lose a lot more points to them and slip even further behind. So we might pick up an extra 12 points each year? If that had happened last season we would have finished 19 points behind the champions. That would've been a nailbitting end to the season right enough. In more positive news we would have finish 2 points ahead of Rangers thanks to their point deduction for entering administration. I don't disagree with the rest of what you've said, but this bigger league = competition is utter horseshite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I don't disagree with the rest of what you've said, but this bigger league = competition is utter horseshite. Yeah, pretty much. The idea that clubs like ourselves lose out on title shots because we lose games to the Old Firm is utter nonsense. Even when we were challenging for the title, we didn't lose it because we papped it against the Old Firm. Hearts, when they went on their daft start to the season, didn't lose their way because they lost to the Old Firm, Hibs, on their run under Hughes didn't drop away because they lost to the Old Firm. Each of us lost ground on them because we were dropping points against clubs at our own level. This season has been the most erratic for just about every team in the SPL. By the same logic, as the second placed team, we would only drop 12 points this season, yet we're 18 points behind at this stage. It isn't a lottery, either. If you're good enough, you aren't relegated. Lottery suggests something random, a game of chance. If you aren't good enough to beat the clubs that are 'worse' than you, you're relegated, the same as any other league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 If your looking tae save a bit of cash don't renew Kenny Blacks contract, in the overall scheme of things an assistant manager is excess baggage. And I'm sure more cash could be saved by getting rid of non essential personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 According to mcCall on BBC Alba, black is very vouch an integral part of the team at Fir Park. Takes almost every training session apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 LD in scotsman http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/leeann-dempster-well-on-the-way-to-a-12-12-future-1-2796142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 By the same logic, as the second placed team, we would only drop 12 points this season, yet we're 18 points behind at this stage. Thats overly generous. We probably will drop 12 points to Celtic this year, but we'd still need to play them twice in a bigger setup anyway. So a potential saving of 6 points over the course of this season. At this stage in a bigger setup we'd only have dropped 3 points to Celtic. As for the argument that less games against the likes of Hib/Hearts/Dundee Utd with them being replaced by game against the likes of Thistle/Accies/Falkirk is means less points dropped is flawed as well. Would we really be going to Firhill, Douglas Park or The Falkirk stadium as odds on favorites? I doubt it. This season we've dropped 50% of the points up for grabs against the 2 teams at the bottom of the league. We've only dropped 20% of whats been up for grabs vs 3rd and 4th. I would agree we would be more likely to drop a few less points, but this logic also holds true for Celtic who are also going to be playing less games against better quality opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 LD in scotsman http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/leeann-dempster-well-on-the-way-to-a-12-12-future-1-2796142 So if playoffs are such an exciting money spinning prospect, why can't we go with a 12-12 and introduce playoffs for 11th in top league and 2nd, 3rd, 4th in the second tier? This would be the natural way to go. Take automatic promotion/relegation out of our game and we are operating in a farce of a setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Yeah, pretty much. The idea that clubs like ourselves lose out on title shots because we lose games to the Old Firm is utter nonsense. Even when we were challenging for the title, we didn't lose it because we papped it against the Old Firm. Hearts, when they went on their daft start to the season, didn't lose their way because they lost to the Old Firm, Hibs, on their run under Hughes didn't drop away because they lost to the Old Firm. Each of us lost ground on them because we were dropping points against clubs at our OWN LEVEL Uh huh. And replacing say 8 games with teams like Hearts, Hibs, Dun Utd, Killie - our Own LEVEL( all just taking points off each other and nullifying any challenge) with games against, say Partick Thistle, Livingston, Raith Rovers and Morton wouldn't give us more points and thus keep us closer to Celtic how exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Uh huh. And replacing say 8 games with teams like Hearts, Hibs, Dun Utd, Killie - our Own LEVEL( all just taking points off each other and nullifying any challenge) with games against, say Partick Thistle, Livingston, Raith Rovers and Morton wouldn't give us more points and thus keep us closer to Celtic how exactly? I'm on your side of the argument re the league structure but your miles off with these fantasy results you are generating where in all this are the teams that are going to take more points off Celtic? you think Thistle, Livvy, Raith, Morton are going to take more points off them than Hearts,Killie,Dundee utd,St Mirren & Ross county? Competitition will only happen, when over a sustained period more clubs are operating on a level playing field its going to be a while before all the mhankies have enough cash to go watch Liverpool , Man Utd etc so as long as Celtic are preaching to a captive audience they'll follow them and give them a financial advantage over the rest Think we all have to accept that and make the rest of Scottish football fit for those that still have any will to go and watch games I'm still against the proposals because they bring nothing to the table for the fans that support the game interesting that Leeann talks about PR, nothing better than asking your customers what they want from the game and then ignoring it just check all the club and league supporters surveys and see what this plan delivers but more worryingly, what does it do to stop the delcine in match attendences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Uh huh. And replacing say 8 games with teams like Hearts, Hibs, Dun Utd, Killie - our Own LEVEL( all just taking points off each other and nullifying any challenge) with games against, say Partick Thistle, Livingston, Raith Rovers and Morton wouldn't give us more points and thus keep us closer to Celtic how exactly? Okay, but I'm still looking for any sort of evidence to indicate that this would actually happen? This season we've been dropping points to bottom six teams Dundee, St. Mirren and Hearts, so regardless of whether we're cuffing teams in these imaginary fixtures, how are we going to stay closer, or compete with Celtic when we're still dropping points to teams that Celtic are beating? Looking at the first round of fixtures: Ross County 0 - 0 Motherwell Motherwell 1 - 1 St Johnstone Kilmarnock 1 - 2 Motherwell Motherwell 1 - 1 St Mirren Motherwell 4 - 1 Inverness CT Dundee 1 - 2 Motherwell Aberdeen 3 - 3 Motherwell Motherwell 0 - 2 Celtic Hearts 1 - 0 Motherwell Motherwell 0 - 4 Hibernian Motherwell 0 - 1 Dundee Utd 13 points. Celtic's first round of fixtures: Celtic 1 - 0 Aberdeen Ross County 1 - 1 Celtic Inverness CT 2 - 4 Celtic Celtic 2 - 2 Hibernian St Johnstone 2 - 1 Celtic Celtic 2 - 0 Dundee Motherwell 0 - 2 Celtic Celtic 1 - 0 Hearts St Mirren 0 - 5 Celtic Celtic 0 - 2 Kilmarnock Dundee Utd 2 - 2 Celtic 21 points. So even with these imaginary additional four fixtures each, and Celtic's well documented problems in motivating themselves throughout their European campaign, supposing we both take 12 points from the extra games, we're on 25, Celtic on 33. So with four extra games, we're the same 8 points away from Celtic, unless we're guaranteed points from games against Livi and they'll drop them. How does this make the league more competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I'm on your side of the argument re the league structure but your miles off with these fantasy results you are generating where in all this are the teams that are going to take more points off Celtic? you think Thistle, Livvy, Raith, Morton are going to take more points off them than Hearts,Killie,Dundee utd,St Mirren Actually it ia irrelevant as we are just wanting a more competitive situation at the too. i'm not saying Motherwell or Dundee Utd WILL win the league but it WILL close the gap (obviously) and at least keep it interesting at this stage of the season - is that not worth it? Don't worry either about who plays Celtic. Diddy clubs always up their game and are as likely to take something off celtic as we or Hearts etc.. are. There will also be the added venom/sense of occassion for thw ONLY visit of Celtic or Rangers for that matter for a year or perhaps almost two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Actually it ia irrelevant as we are just wanting a more competitive situation at the too. i'm not saying Motherwell or Dundee Utd WILL win the league but it WILL close the gap (obviously) and at least keep it interesting at this stage of the season - is that not worth it? Don't worry either about who plays Celtic. Diddy clubs always up their game and are as likely to take something off celtic as we or Hearts etc.. are. There will also be the added venom/sense of occassion for thw ONLY visit of Celtic or Rangers for that matter for a year or perhaps almost two. so you kind off agree with the rest of us, a bigger league still wouldnt mean more competition for first over the season until financial gaps are closed but it would mean less repetitive fixtures for every club more interest for fans that go and see games week in week out only one league visit to other grounds each season, increase in demand? posibility of more interesting matches in that teams dont know each other intimately so how about arguing for some tangible benefits of bigger leagues PS you'll lose tho' as the clubs are saying there aren't 2-6 clubs financially ready to come up hence I'd rather fans fought for some benefits for those that are still going to matches , to be added in to the proposals remove the silly oclock Sunday morning fixtures no matches to be rescheduled less than 4 weeks before ko move the scheduled midweek fixtures away from winter to July/August give all clubs back the Scottish cup interest after new year ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 so you kind off agree with the rest of us, a bigger league still wouldnt mean more competition for first over the season until financial gaps are closed but it would mean less repetitive fixtures for every club more interest for fans that go and see games week in week out only one league visit to other grounds each season, increase in demand? posibility of more interesting matches in that teams dont know each other intimately so how about arguing for some tangible benefits of bigger leagues PS you'll lose tho' as the clubs are saying there aren't 2-6 clubs financially ready to come up hence I'd rather fans fought for some benefits for those that are still going to matches , to be added in to the proposals remove the silly oclock Sunday morning fixtures no matches to be rescheduled less than 4 weeks before ko move the scheduled midweek fixtures away from winter to July/August give all clubs back the Scottish cup interest after new year ........ 'Mon you. Those changes are far too beneficial, attractive for fans, and are loaded with too much common sense for them to be listened too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 If your looking tae save a bit of cash don't renew Kenny Blacks contract, in the overall scheme of things an assistant manager is excess baggage. And I'm sure more cash could be saved by getting rid of non essential personnel. We already run on a skeleton staff compared to many clubs. And in the modern game, it's the assistant manager that runs the day to day, taking all the training sessions etc. while the manager deals with the bigger picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 We already run on a skeleton staff compared to many clubs. And in the modern game, it's the assistant manager that runs the day to day, taking all the training sessions etc. while the manager deals with the bigger picture. What bigger picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 What bigger picture? Seriously? A few things off the top of my head Analysing DVD from last game or too to identify good and bad points Working on those points with players one-to-one Working out tactics for next game Planning training drills to address any of the above items Overseeing training drills/bounce games to monitor players' form/injuries Media duties Overseeing U20 team tactics and development Attending U20 games to monitor progress of youngsters and making any adjustments to team to help promotion of players to first team Working with board on budgets, players, contracts Reviewing the hundreds of requests from agents to look at players' DVDs Watching games to identify potential targets to replace players he realistically expects to lose in the summer Involvement in schools/community activities Involvement in supporters events And I'm sure there is plenty more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Making videos with local rock bands 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMc Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Making videos with local rock bands 'K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 So we might pick up an extra 12 points each year? If that had happened last season we would have finished 19 points behind the champions. That would've been a nailbitting end to the season right enough. In more positive news we would have finish 2 points ahead of Rangers thanks to their point deduction for entering administration. I don't disagree with the rest of what you've said, but this bigger league = competition is utter horseshite. Who's to say it wouldn't be more than 12? When you aren't facing one of the OF every five or six weeks you might actually build up a wee run of good results, and a wee run can build confidence. We might see ourselves going into a game against the OF thinking we can do something instead of rolling over and getting our belly tickled like a week old pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roly Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 When you aren't facing one of the OF every five or six weeks You mean exactly like this season? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 You mean exactly like this season? Not exactly, 4 pumpings off Celtic still creates a big gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Not exactly, 4 pumpings off Celtic still creates a big gap. We've only played them twice and the gap is 18 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 'K? Good post, ok? Got to keep it on topic, K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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