Catweazles ring piece Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 SM has assembled a present squad (youth lads excluded) that is unbalanced, pedestrian and now look disinterested on match day. I think the question fast approaching is, can we afford not to sack SM. SM does deserve loyalty, but not to the detriment of MFC. The next few weeks are massive for both club and manager. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Anyone championing McLean is borderline daft. A Motherwell legend but from a different era.McCall is not my favourite MFC manager but he is the man in place so we have to get behind him. He will hopefully I still the necessary fitness and organisation and get us out of the mire we are in. The other option is too much of a gamble.Let's hope, if he stays beyond the end of the season, he learns from the experience, which will be to everyone's advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaretAndBamber Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Let's be realistic. The club cannot afford to sack SM before the end of the season so unless he resigns I believe he will be here until the Summer and will then move on. There are 15-17 players out of contact at the end of the season and if I were them I'd be doing my best to ensure I had money coming in after this year as the club cannot afford to keep the playing budget at the level it is at - especially if we finish bottom 6 (and god help us if we're knocked out the cup in the first game). Now is not an easy time to be a Motherwell supporter and the next 6-12 month are going to be arduous. So, what are the options as fans: 1. Get behind the team and management 2. Whinge and moan about the team and management (under the guise of everyone is entitled to their opinion) 3. Give up supporting Motherwell I choose option 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I find naming candidates to be a daft game, to be honest. It beats having to actually discuss the football though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 There's people actually rationalising the completely hatstand notion of punting McCall & replacing him with Tommy McLean. Have a word with yourselves troops. Things are horrendous at the moment, they used to frequently be horrendous. Remember? Time to experience what it's like to be alive you fucking bunch of spoilt poofs. We remember all too well. What I don't remember is going to see Motherwell 7 times home and away and seeing 7 pathetic defeats in a row. What I don't remember is Motherwell being completely shite 12 matches out of 13 at the beginning of a season. When you go back to the early days we had been a yo yo team and had to establish ourselves in a good leagues against strong teams while trying to balance the books. Later we had poor seasons like the one after the cup win or under Malpas but we started those seasons OK and had points on the board when it all went pear shaped. When we went into admin we were very poor at times and wildly inconsistant but we had good young players coming through and they sprinkled the season with some incredible results. This season has been unrelenting shite from start to present which is bad enough but its not even about that, it's about the actual future of the club being at stake if we are relegated. McCall will get more time but he needs to start turning it round soon or we simply cannot afford to risk sticking by him. If it comes down to a relegation battle I'd take McLean over McCall every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 2 neg votes and none of the boo boys stepping up to answer the question, got to love SOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingu Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 There's people actually rationalising the completely hatstand notion of punting McCall & replacing him with Tommy McLean. Have a word with yourselves troops. Things are horrendous at the moment, they used to frequently be horrendous. Remember? Time to experience what it's like to be alive you fucking bunch of spoilt poofs. It's 2014. Any need for the homophobic language? Once again, your posts are a mile out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 We remember all too well. What I don't remember is going to see Motherwell 7 times home and away and seeing 7 pathetic defeats in a row. What I don't remember is Motherwell being completely shite 12 matches out of 13 at the beginning of a season. When you go back to the early days we had been a yo yo team and had to establish ourselves in a good leagues against strong teams while trying to balance the books. Later we had poor seasons like the one after the cup win or under Malpas but we started those seasons OK and had points on the board when it all went pear shaped. When we went into admin we were very poor at times and wildly inconsistant but we had good young players coming through and they sprinkled the season with some incredible results. This season has been unrelenting shite from start to present which is bad enough but its not even about that, it's about the actual future of the club being at stake if we are relegated. McCall will get more time but he needs to start turning it round soon or we simply cannot afford to risk sticking by him. If it comes down to a relegation battle I'd take McLean over McCall every time. I remember under Tommy McLean it took us 17 games into a 36 game season, to win our first league game of the season in 1988'89. That was McLean's 5th full season in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'd be interested to know where the 7th/8th biggest team in the country (between us and Killie and granted 3 above us are in the league below) can reside without having its fans sharpen their knives? league position isn't the defining factor. it comes down to assesing our squad and how we are performing in relation to resources our rivals have. we are where we are because stuart mccall has made a series of bad recruitment decisions and when you combine that with his easy come, easy go managerial attitude and lack of tactical nous it has left us in the shit. if we were in a relegation battle because our budget had cut dramatically or because other teams have improved significantly then the focus wouldn't be on the manager but that's not the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Can't beat a few facts from the past as Andy outlined to make people think twice and not assume it was all milk and honey back then. league position isn't the defining factor. it comes down to assesing our squad and how we are performing in relation to resources our rivals have. we are where we are because stuart mccall has made a series of bad recruitment decisions and when you combine that with his easy come, easy go managerial attitude and lack of tactical nous it has left us in the shit. if we were in a relegation battle because our budget had cut dramatically or because other teams have improved significantly then the focus wouldn't be on the manager but that's not the case. Well based on last season, our league performances totally flattered our squad. With respect to his recruitment decisions, I think he's about 50-50, if anything erring on the positive side of things. I may have missed a few, also I've listed players when they first came to the club opposed to securing permanent deals. 2010/11 Steve Jones - Mate from past, too old, not a success Gavin Gunning - Sad to see him go, thumbs up Francis Jeffers - Scored a couple of meaningful goals, trading on past glories 2011/12 Henrik Ojamaa - Raring success Nicky Law - Raring success Michael Higdon - Slow start, broke goalscoring record, success Tim Clancy - Unfancied at first, did a job, reluctant to see him go Omar Daley - Mate from past, fail Stephen Hughes - Fail 2012/13 James McFadden - Success and added a feel-good factor, didn't materialise in 2nd season, fail Simon Ramsden - Slow start, gradual appreciation, injury, not found form since Kallum Higginbotham - Scored a peach, has blown hot and cold at Partick, plus he's a prick Fraser Kerr - Fair to say fail so far (been used out of favoured position a lot though) 2013/14 Stephen McManus - Where to start, based on everything so far, not lived up to his billing or pedigree Iain Vigurs - On his day, sublime passing, no engine and inconsistent Paul Lawson - Never used how he was at Ross County to gain his move, however fail Gunnar Nielsen - Confidence player and its either in short supply or he has none, Failure John Sutton - Goes through peaks and troughs, we're in a trough at present, still produced the goods last season, mild success Lionel Ainsworth - When he's up for it success, however he's lazy so he's a 50-50 Henri Anier - Success as we made money on him 2014/15 Dan Twardzik - Has something about him, just no presence and stature to intimidate. However according to many on here in January he was the key to all our woes. So McCall isn't the only one to have got that wrong Josh Law - Dream start, now cries of cronyism, big step up Mark O'Brien - Not benefitting from an unstabilised defence I do think he's been guilty of relying on players and a style opposed to adapting things to combat the opposition readily enough. We are too predictable and too slow and others teams have noticed and capitalised. Not securing players with pace has also been a bit of an achilles heel especially this past summer. I also accept he has to hold his hands up to players being unfit on day one, however a fair bit has to be placed in the hands of professionals who only have to keep their fitness up for 6 weeks, it seems like they all kicked back and watched the World Cup with 6 packs and pizza's. However a good manager doesn't become a bad one overnight. In his defence, we've had unprecedented injuries in the past 18 months, from Gannon's time until then we've hardly had any key players out for any significant periods. He secured us 2nd last season which was definitely a sick purse from a sows ear and I'm sure Gordon Strachan hasn't invited him to be part of the setup as purely a social convenor and friendly face. He's at a pivotal point in his career, his stock was pretty high a few months back. He's now at a place where the camaraderie he fosters only goes so far, there doesn't appear a common spirit. For me, brutal honesty, grit and a bit of bad cop have to surface along with changing things up every so often to keep the opposition guessing will define him if he can adapt. I'll draw attention to St Johnstone, big things were touted from them this season and they are 2 points ahead of us. Regardless of the above, as it has been pointed out, I don't think there is enough in the budget to terminate employment, I think the only way it will happen before the season is out is if another club come sniffing. Personally I hope he stays and gets us over this malaise we have at present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 if we take three doings in a row on TV he'll quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup3rw3ll Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 if we were in a relegation battle because our budget had cut dramatically or because other teams have improved significantly then the focus wouldn't be on the manager but that's not the case. Maybe it's passed over you, but the budget has been cut year on year for the past 3 or 4 seasons. I don't know who calls the shots regarding budget, but it really hacks me off that the club have a perpetual part time club mentality. They constantly shoot themselves in the foot, with bad decisions on and off the park. Take the decision to pay the bonus money couple seasons back that resulted in posting a loss in the accounts. Why did the do that!?! What company would actively payout money knowing it would affect them! Then you have the signings of certain players who have more or less been warming the bench for the last few seasons getting 2 year contracts. Again, Why? Surely it would be better to use the same money to try someone else? Worse case scenario they will warm the same bench that the original bench warmer was. The club seem well aware that money is a tight resource, yet fritter it away with bad choices. This season is the result of said bad choices causing the budget to be cut to a point it's reflecting on the park. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I remember under Tommy McLean it took us 17 games into a 36 game season, to win our first league game of the season in 1988'89. That was McLean's 5th full season in charge. We had a hell of a lot of draws in that run at a time when a win was still only worth 2 points. We also never got demolished in any game like we have over the last few weeks and the league was still full of very strong Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and Hearts sides, never mind the OF. Comparing then with now doesn't really seem to be comparing like with like but if you must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Maybe it's passed over you, but the budget has been cut year on year for the past 3 or 4 seasons. I don't know who calls the shots regarding budget, but it really hacks me off that the club have a perpetual part time club mentality. They constantly shoot themselves in the foot, with bad decisions on and off the park. Take the decision to pay the bonus money couple seasons back that resulted in posting a loss in the accounts. Why did the do that!?! What company would actively payout money knowing it would affect them! Then you have the signings of certain players who have more or less been warming the bench for the last few seasons getting 2 year contracts. Again, Why? Surely it would be better to use the same money to try someone else? Worse case scenario they will warm the same bench that the original bench warmer was. The club seem well aware that money is a tight resource, yet fritter it away with bad choices. This season is the result of said bad choices causing the budget to be cut to a point it's reflecting on the park. That's not fact, unless Ms Dempster & Mr Weir were economical with the truth... Whilst it is restrictive in achieving the aims of some, there were times when the playing budget remained the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Take the decision to pay the bonus money couple seasons back that resulted in posting a loss in the accounts. Why did the do that!?! What company would actively payout money knowing it would affect them! One that thought it would be cheaper than being taken to court by the players who were presumably contractually entitled to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 We had a hell of a lot of draws in that run at a time when a win was still only worth 2 points. We also never got demolished in any game like we have over the last few weeks and the league was still full of very strong Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and Hearts sides, never mind the OF. Comparing then with now doesn't really seem to be comparing like with like but if you must. Wasn't making any comparison with the current season. You stated you didn't remember Motherwell being completely shite for the first dozen matches of a season or whatever. Whilst I wouldn't disagree with much of what you say about that campaign what kind of description would you give to a season that takes you 17 matches to win your first game? I'm guessing when pressed most wouldn't folk's definition of such a start wouldn't be a million miles away from being "completely shite". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 We remember all too well. What I don't remember is going to see Motherwell 7 times home and away and seeing 7 pathetic defeats in a row. What I don't remember is Motherwell being completely shite 12 matches out of 13 at the beginning of a season. When you go back to the early days we had been a yo yo team and had to establish ourselves in a good leagues against strong teams while trying to balance the books. Later we had poor seasons like the one after the cup win or under Malpas but we started those seasons OK and had points on the board when it all went pear shaped. When we went into admin we were very poor at times and wildly inconsistant but we had good young players coming through and they sprinkled the season with some incredible results. This season has been unrelenting shite from start to present which is bad enough but its not even about that, it's about the actual future of the club being at stake if we are relegated. McCall will get more time but he needs to start turning it round soon or we simply cannot afford to risk sticking by him. If it comes down to a relegation battle I'd take McLean over McCall every time. This. 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 That's not fact, unless Ms Dempster & Mr Weir were economical with the truth... Whilst it is restrictive in achieving the aims of some, there were times when the playing budget remained the same. I can't quite remember whether it was the club AGM or a Well Society meeting, and whether that was just before or just after the end of the season, but whenever it was I was certainly left with the impression that the second place finish last season meant there would be no budget cut for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 From what's out in the open, the budget hasn't been cut. However, the financial mismanagement in recent years can be directed at Dempster and she's jumped ship accordingly. Who know what the deal has been with bonuses. Clearly, they have been a successful incentive but someone didn't do the sums. Next 3 weeks are massive for McCall with the the TV exposure. Hopefully the players step up to the plate for him. He arguably doesn't deserve to be at risk of losing his job but given the precarious finances, we have little room for loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 As far as budgets go, a few things have bitten us: a) getting papped out of cups earlier than expected far too often b) lack of a league sponsor c) falling crowds d) shh, whisper it, no Rangers in the top league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 As far as budgets go, a few things have bitten us: a) getting papped out of cups earlier than expected far too often b) lack of a league sponsor c) falling crowds d) shh, whisper it, no Rangers in the top league. e) voting to split 2nd place prize money in 2012/13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Maybe it's passed over you, but the budget has been cut year on year for the past 3 or 4 seasons. as has been said, just not true I don't know who calls the shots regarding budget, but it really hacks me off that the club have a perpetual part time club mentality. They constantly shoot themselves in the foot, with bad decisions on and off the park. The Board of the club, wil take the budget decisions, part time club mentality? if anything the opposite is the case, Take the decision to pay the bonus money couple seasons back that resulted in posting a loss in the accounts. Why did the do that!?! What company would actively payout money knowing it would affect them! Contracts? I'd agree from the outside, without seeing individual numbers, the bonus structure seems to have been beyond the finances, but then financial expectation from employees is a hard thing to temper, most business manage it by a hammer blow, then restructure, in a motivation based game thats gamble, who knows perhaps we're witnessing it Then you have the signings of certain players who have more or less been warming the bench for the last few seasons getting 2 year contracts. Again, Why? Surely it would be better to use the same money to try someone else? Worse case scenario they will warm the same bench that the original bench warmer was. Signings are always up for debate, maybe we have worse case scenario you portray, where what we have signed are just the same as what was let go?? The club seem well aware that money is a tight resource, yet fritter it away with bad choices. This season is the result of said bad choices causing the budget to be cut to a point it's reflecting on the park. again? has the budget been cut?, Ive seen a few, throw that out there, certainly wasnt in the boards intention, with a second place finish, and then player sales, in fact a few fans are angered that the extra cash was blown on new deals, instead of investing in the future reserve fund that is now needed......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Title says it all. A dreadful line up, yet again, another shocking start to a game and we're staring yet another defeat in the face. We need to replace McCall before we are relegated - which we will be on current form. MERGED: That 10 page discussion on the manager slip you by? Or did you just have to eek out that extra wee bit of drama? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wispy Flossy Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Defended McCall up until tonight but as much as it pains me to say it I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Could he still do a job in midfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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