Inthebasement Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I can't be the only one wondering if this might represent good news rather than a sign we are goosed? It is highly unlikely that the potential buyer is looking for the land, and much more likely it is someone with cash looking to take control of the club. Must surely be a fan or someone looking to make a success of it, asset stripping Well would have to be the worst business plan in history. We are not the h**s. It's a worry that the WS and present management appear so desperate here, it is conceivable there is an element of self interest, or willingness to maintain the status quo? I have no insight or axe to grind here, just considering the possibility that someone looking to buy the club might be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I can't be the only one wondering if this might represent good news rather than a sign we are goosed? It is highly unlikely that the potential buyer is looking for the land, and much more likely it is someone with cash looking to take control of the club. Must surely be a fan or someone looking to make a success of it, asset stripping Well would have to be the worst business plan in history. We are not the h**s. It's a worry that the WS and present management appear so desperate here, it is conceivable there is an element of self interest, or willingness to maintain the status quo? I have no insight or axe to grind here, just considering the possibility that someone looking to buy the club might be a good thing. Hopefully in the coming days we'll have scope to determine whether or not the tone of desperation partly stems from self interest. I'd certainly like to see what a proposed buyer has to offer. The current regime has ran us into the ground and it would appear Boyle is now calling in his debts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 1414623174[/url]' post='423844']Yes I do, never a fan of it and don't think it's the way forward, each the their own. Eh? Don't think you've grasped the 'Society has bailed the club out twice already' ideal have you? Proof that the Society hasn't been the waste of time you & plenty other doubters suggest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmac Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have not and will never give a penny to the well society. As a business model it is fucking atrocious and this is coming home to roost.The fact of the matter is that we have a tiny home support in a less than affluent area and yet deemed it fit to set community ownership up at a time of economic crises - I mean somebody/some group should be taken out and shot; but that's by the by as they say.What we are now facing is a pleading letter asking for more cash...Did no one at the club draw up contingency plans at the time this was set up? Any healthy business / business consultant will tell you that relying on one cash line in what is effectively a new business venture is fucking suicide - especially one which has no binding contracts of cash injection points from suppliers. As much as it pains me to say this, we are a total fucking joke from top to bottom. We have a youth system which doesn't produce saleable assets which the club requires for revenue, a first time and cup performances which doesn't generate revenue, a stadium infrastructure/ pricing/ product which drives away fans and revenue. We have no figureheads, apparently not an ounce of business acumen and see fit to consistently beg the people who already give the most. We are really rooked. Someone really should be making a phone call to KPMG, Deloitte or a company of that ilk - we really need a fine tooth comb analysis of EVERY detail of the club, total restructuring with people from all aspects f the club shown the door and others brought in. If there is a buyer out there, then perhaps they are more likely to see that than the club in its current state and take appropriate action. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The club started the society as a means to give Boyle an exit, he was trying to sell the club for years and there were no credible bidders. Look around Scottish football and there has barely been been a club sold in over decade, no one wants to buy in. I'll take news of a buyer with a pinch of salt until I see something concrete and a name. As for restructuring - the club has a turnover of £6m and less than 20 full time non football staff and you think we should get kmpg in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmac Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 1414653649[/url]' post='423852']The club started the society as a means to give Boyle an exit, he was trying to sell the club for years and there were no credible bidders. Look around Scottish football and there has barely been been a club sold in over decade, no one wants to buy in. I'll take news of a buyer with a pinch of salt until I see something concrete and a name. As for restructuring - the club has a turnover of £6m and less than 20 full time non football staff and you think we should get kmpg in? No, I was simply using the name to illustrate the point.I would however fully stand behind the idea of seeking business consultancy for the club and its assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 lender benefits In summary, in return for pooling their resources and providing the loan it is proposed that the consortium members will receive the following key benefits: all loan amounts repaid over an agreed timescale, with the club stadium providing loan security and protection a competitive rate of interest, paid annually a combined 20% share of any player’s transfer fee to another club a combined 20% share of any surplus if the club reaches the Scottish Cup Final all benefits of the Well Society’s amber members a guarantee that John Boyle will transfer his shares to the Well Society, confirming fan ownership of the club. points 3 and 4 made me chuckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Just read the letter. The only people who can force 'us away from community ownership' are the current directors and if they are doing such a poor job they have led us into insolvency they should either put in their own cash or walk. Boyle's role is also interesting. He holds a security over the main stand and the club seems to be saying they will use money raised from the support to pay him off. Combine that with the tax write off with his shares which has fixed the price of the club at can unreasonanly high value and he's not looking quite as heroic as he was in his vanity video a few years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punk_in_drublic Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Did this email go to all Well Society members or just some selected Motherwell supporters? I find it strange that some of us just found out about this last night (29th) and the urgent sign up meeting is the 30th. Maybe John Boyle is in personal financial trouble and is calling in his chips now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Has anyone ever heard anything about Boyle holding security on the main stand before as it's new one on me? Or is the case that the 'asset finance company' mentioned in the letter is owned by Boyle and he received a security over the main stand for a £150,000 loan which would makes us a shitey wee mirror image of rangers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Have never heard of the main stand security before. I imagine the asset management company is linked to one of Boyle's numerous ventures. In summary though, if this £1million is raised, half of it is going straight to Boyle. The urgency suggests he's in desperate need of the money and the intention is to fleece the fans accordingly. As a business proposition, who the fuck would lend money to Motherwell given the losses we've made over the last 3 years while succeeding on the park? Do we know how much the current Board of Directors have invested in the club? Hopefully the media take a wee bit of interest today, particularly when there is the St Johnstone press conference anyway. We certainty deserve some clarity as the prospect of sitting in the Championship with a bunch of kids and a significant points deduction, is not a million miles away under the current regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthebasement Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not sure it's right to characterise JB's position as cash strapped, or 'trying to fleece the fans'. It is suggested elsewhere that JB's exit terms are more generous if the club is going into WS hands, that if it's goig to a private buyer. Suggests he is prepared to take a personal hit to see the club go into community ownership, and whether or not that is a good plan it seems to me like a reasonable and creditable position. And to be fair, that pretty much was the thrust of his vanity video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Boyle has transfered his shares to a trust which the current directors control. Boyle has no say over what happens to his shares or any say over the running of the club. As I understand it the 60% share holding in the trust has to be sold for minimum £1.5m because his accountants have used the loss he suffered giving up the shares as a tax write off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It is worrying news... I've with Kmac in that the business model for the Well Society seemed miles off the mark and I always questioned it's legitimacy and ability to work for a club like ours. As others have mentioned though, think we need to put the spotlight on the way the club is being run from top to bottom. No question, we are great at PR - that was Leanne's background, as with our current GM - but there appears to be a distinct lack of a business mind pulling strings and planning accordingly. If we are to face any sort of administration again, that for me, is unbelievably embarrassing in that we haven't learned lessons from the past (ie Rangers!) We have arguably just witnessed our most successful period in our history, and to come out the other end in this situation is extreme cause for concern. Mismanagement with youth, player sales, budgeting, bonuses and clearly exaggerated projections of incomes, including the Well Society. The thing that is really grating on me though is the total lack of transparency from the club. This letter has arrived from out of nowhere, and the whole idea of "fan ownership" is being ridiculed if issues like this are being kept from them. Would expect someone to come forward and clear things up, especially for the Well Society members, and provide information on the situation and possible options, but really doubt if that will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It is worrying news... I've with Kmac in that the business model for the Well Society seemed miles off the mark and I always questioned it's legitimacy and ability to work for a club like ours. As others have mentioned though, think we need to put the spotlight on the way the club is being run from top to bottom. No question, we are great at PR - that was Leanne's background, as with our current GM - but there appears to be a distinct lack of a business mind pulling strings and planning accordingly. If we are to face any sort of administration again, that for me, is unbelievably embarrassing in that we haven't learned lessons from the past (ie Rangers!) We have arguably just witnessed our most successful period in our history, and to come out the other end in this situation is extreme cause for concern. Mismanagement with youth, player sales, budgeting, bonuses and clearly exaggerated projections of incomes, including the Well Society. The thing that is really grating on me though is the total lack of transparency from the club. This letter has arrived from out of nowhere, and the whole idea of "fan ownership" is being ridiculed if issues like this are being kept from them. Would expect someone to come forward and clear things up, especially for the Well Society members, and provide information on the situation and possible options, but really doubt if that will happen. Can we refrain from questioning legitimacy & ability to work for a club like ours... To a certain extent it already has or the administration process may have been in full swing 2 years ago. No doubting a lack of transpareny when the whole 'fan ownership' ethos should be engaging the fans wether the responses be positive and negative. What was the credentials to receive one of the club letters? Know of sponsors who have contributed similar monies already this term who haven't received any... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Can we refrain from questioning legitimacy & ability to work for a club like ours... To a certain extent it already has or the administration process may have been in full swing 2 years ago. Not taking away the loans, and it certainly has brought positives and done a lot of good at the club. But this is still short term solutions. My concern was always the "end-game" as didn't, and still don't, believe we have the fan base to make up the numbers required for successful fan ownership, which is proving to be the case now. I also believe the full details of the agreement with Boyle wasn't made as clear as it could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not taking away the loans, and it certainly has brought positives and done a lot of good at the club. But this is still short term solutions. My concern was always the "end-game" as didn't, and still don't, believe we have the fan base to make up the numbers required for successful fan ownership, which is proving to be the case now. I also believe the full details of the agreement with Boyle wasn't made as clear as it could. the club has been running under the same principles for years. attempt to balance the books and have a fall back to cover short term shortfalls (formerly boyle, now the society). we are struggling now because of reduced TV, sponsorship and ticket income because of the rangers situation and the poor performance on the park. the board seems to have chosen a strategy which depends on putting out a top six team which won't work long term when the city clubs recover but should have been ok for this season. unfortunately the manager and players have let the club down and we are in for some hard times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Have I missed something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Have I missed something? If you haven't read this http://www.steelmenonline.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=14443&view=findpost&p=423803 then yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeIsGod Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 And just when I didn't think I could actually be more scunnered with Motherwell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 We are an absolute shambles from top to bottom, a sinking ship. Completely agree with the above calls for a complete overhaul of staff at all levels within the club and, perhaps more importantly, transparency. Quite how we managed to get ourselves in this mess after our hugely impressive league performances since the turn of the decade plus a Scottish Cup Final appearance is absolutely staggering. Administration is not too far away by the looks of things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Quite how we managed to get ourselves in this mess after our hugely impressive league performances since the turn of the decade plus a Scottish Cup Final appearance is absolutely staggering. Administration is not too far away by the looks of things. This is what Im struggling with. Why are we sitting with a negative position (to all intents and purposes)? I can only come up with: Misc overheads - the pitch upgrade was a while ago though - not aware of other large remedial work etc? Player salaries - Finishing 2nd is, at the end of the day, negated, if we are spending over the odds finishing there in the first place, then not taking advantage of it (progressing in Europe/cups and banking cash). Seems to have been a very short-term view of things being taken. The Well Society, for all its merits, was never really a viable long-term option in terms of running the club. We simply dont have the fanbase to support it ad-infinitum. I thought it was about having cash reserves to be called on, if need be, in the future (over and above the day-to-day balance sheet management), which is a non-starter if we were in a loss-making position at the outset. Was the Well Society actually just about funding a short-term working capital gap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Jesus wept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Response from the Well Society: http://www.thewellsociety.co.uk/2014/10/30/well-society-statement/ No doubt that we are toiling to get through the season due to poor performance on the pitch. Why the fuck the Board of a provincial club with no credit facility have continued to adopt such a bullish approach to setting budgets is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldel Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The thought that someone may be waiting in the wings to invest in or buy the club is more comforting than the Well Society is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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