fizoxy Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 With the subject of the Accies player being discussed in the shoutbox, I figured a thread might be worthwhile. I think that the reasons other clubs have been able to sell guys for higher price tags are as follows: 1 - They pay them more 2 - They spend more money on their development 3 - They play them then sell them at a younger age I think the last player we brought through and sold was Jamie Murphy, while we seem to have missed the boat with Hutchinson. We also don't seem to be very good at the sales pitch. One argument is that we were too busy coming 2nd and playing in Europe, but I don't think the model has ever changed in that we have always aimed to be a selling club. Are we just getting out what we are putting in to the youth setup, i.e nothing? Or should I be encouraged by what is in the pipeline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 4 - the players the other clubs are selling are better Not knocking our players, but the odd gem that gets sold for millions are typically better. McCarthy being the prime example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Our Youth Development has been very poor since Chris McCart left. It will take time - measured in years - to see if Leitch can turn things around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Must stop broadcasting how skint we are. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think it's a multitude of things really - all of which are noted above. In the main, it's the quality of player that comes out which in turn decides the fee. Teams get lucky sometimes and find a gem but usually, I would say, it is down to the development of the player which is all about getting the player in in the first place (scouting network, player wages, paying fees to other clubs) and then developing with the best coaches possible. Dundee Utd and Accies have probably been the club's who have most recently sold players for millions down south. Jim Spence said on Radio Scotland last night that Utd spend 750k a year on their youth system. I'd imagine that is night and day compared to ours. Accies I am sure I read invested the McCarthy/McCarthur money back into youth too so they are probably now seeing the fruits of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 They certainly aren't paying them more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 They certainly aren't paying them more. Accies, probably not. Dundee Utd. probably are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Accies, since 2008, have taken in well over £4m in player sales, and sell-on fees. They haven't really bought anyone in Through paying a fee so I would not be surprised if they do pay more, and are using banked cash. But as said before, it could easily be invested in their youth and the reason why they are still getting interest! McArthur - £500k +£500k sell onMcCarthy - £1.2m+ add ons + £3m sell onHendrie - £2m Dundee United are ridiculously lucky, shrude and very clever. Ryan Gauld at 18, sold for £3m and has a buy out cost of £48m at Sporting. Dundee United also have a tidy sell on fee due if any team takes that price up. And £2m for Goodwillie, £2m for Andy Robertson etc. Very clever. When Eddie Thompson passed away, Uniteds finances changed dramatically and Stephen Thompson is doing everything right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 First of all we haven't produced a player that was sellable asset since Mark McGhee was manager (Murphy, Hutchinson) so there is a problem right there, we just don't produce players and its been pretty clear under McCall that the youth system wasn't really deemed to be of any importance. Secondly, we've spent a lot of cash on expensive players from down south that have very little sell on potential. No disrespect to guys like Porter, Jennings, Humphrey, Coke etc but they are not players who are going to attract the attention of big paying clubs down south, otherwise they would not have ended up at Motherwell for nowt! These were all good players for us but they are essentially journey men who will float around unfashionable lower league clubs for the whole of their careers. Dundee Utd and recently other clubs have got it right. Bring young players in from the lower Scottish leagues and then sell them on. Often these guys have a lot more experience of first team football at an early age and usually go on to out perform Premiership level youth players who stagnate from not getting game time at the top level. Take someone like Erwin. He's nearly 21 but until this season had 11 senior appearances on loan at Brechin. Hendrie at Accies, despite being almost a year younger, has over 100 senior appearances. These young lower division players are also cheaper in wages than bring up players from England and have the potential to sell on for decent fees. Buying clubs are not going to spend cash on our level of footballer unless they have the potential to improve and to have the potential to improve they need to be more or less under 21 years of age. We need to start blooding young players at 17 or 18 years or age and we should be looking for players of under 21 years of age in the lower divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I predict that we will field many young lower division players next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 How to be a selling club? Have players other teams want to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz7 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 First of all we haven't produced a player that was sellable asset since Mark McGhee was manager (Murphy, Hutchinson) so there is a problem right there, we just don't produce players and its been pretty clear under McCall that the youth system wasn't really deemed to be of any importance. Secondly, we've spent a lot of cash on expensive players from down south that have very little sell on potential. No disrespect to guys like Porter, Jennings, Humphrey, Coke etc but they are not players who are going to attract the attention of big paying clubs down south, otherwise they would not have ended up at Motherwell for nowt! These were all good players for us but they are essentially journey men who will float around unfashionable lower league clubs for the whole of their careers. Dundee Utd and recently other clubs have got it right. Bring young players in from the lower Scottish leagues and then sell them on. Often these guys have a lot more experience of first team football at an early age and usually go on to out perform Premiership level youth players who stagnate from not getting game time at the top level. Take someone like Erwin. He's nearly 21 but until this season had 11 senior appearances on loan at Brechin. Hendrie at Accies, despite being almost a year younger, has over 100 senior appearances. These young lower division players are also cheaper in wages than bring up players from England and have the potential to sell on for decent fees. Buying clubs are not going to spend cash on our level of footballer unless they have the potential to improve and to have the potential to improve they need to be more or less under 21 years of age. We need to start blooding young players at 17 or 18 years or age and we should be looking for players of under 21 years of age in the lower divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well Up For It! Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Think we are spineless when.it comes to transfer dealings. Even going back to McFadden, felt we sold him on the cheap to Everton. A team wants our star player and offer £100k when he's worth ten times that. Big club say take it or leave it, and we shit it thinking thats better than nothing when his two year deal runs out. And for every McArthur, Gauld and McCarthy, their has been Jack Grimmer, Scott Allan, Chris Maguire, Brian Easton, David Goodwillie, etc, etc that all sold for £1m plus and all acheived fuck all down south and usually end up back here. Club needs long term deals for promising talent and balls to tell clubs to put up or piss off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Dundee untd make a few quid on some of their better prospects because they have them tied down on log contracts from an early age by paying good wages. So if they get a big move ie gauld etc they can demand a decent transfer fee. We as a club are skint only enough cash for modest wages,short contracts so we have nothing to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassinari Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I help run a youth team, and there are 2 or 3 that other clubs (more than once or twice) have come to watch, but Motherwell dont seeem to have them on their radar. Its not that these kids arent being signed, its monitoring they're development (sometimes they're better off at their 'home' club before they step up). This might sound like a moan, but we've made more connections with teams outwith Lanarkshire than we have within it (Accies the exception). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Dundee untd make a few quid on some of their better prospects because they have them tied down on log contracts from an early age by paying good wages. So if they get a big move ie gauld etc they can demand a decent transfer fee. Thats it. We also have to pick up good young players. In the last few years our young lads just haven't been good enough and no amount of coaching can disguise that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkydink Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Was quite disheartening listening to the Accies chairman on Sportsound last night boasting how they are top of the u-17 and u-20 leagues. Clearly lessons to be learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dossertillidie Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just seen bobby Jenks has left, start of a scouting/recruitment shake up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Apparently so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I play 5s in Stirling and on the pitches beside us is a Dundee Utd Youth Training. About 30/40 boys all training with United in a town about 50 miles from Dundee. If they are casting their net like that in all directions it will only be a matter of time before the next GMS/Arnostrong/Gauld/Goodwille etc... comes through. Are Motherwell training youths 50 miles from FP? Are we doing it 5 miles from FP? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I play 5s in Stirling and on the pitches beside us is a Dundee Utd Youth Training. About 30/40 boys all training with United in a town about 50 miles from Dundee. If they are casting their net like that in all directions it will only be a matter of time before the next GMS/Arnostrong/Gauld/Goodwille etc... comes through. Are Motherwell training youths 50 miles from FP? Are we doing it 5 miles from FP? I doubt it. Thats only part of it. A youngster contemplating signing for United should know that he'll face stiff competition from many, many cohorts if he wants to make it at Tannadice. Spiderpig is correct - they throw a lot of money at it and they'll pay for the best prospects. Their set up is really quite mercenary, but it has worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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