something else Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I made a mistake and apologised. Not sure what it has to do with you? Your claims that people are looking for excuses not to go and that they hate mcghee more than they love motherwell thats what. I gave up my season ticket this season, the first time ive not been in the same seat in the DC stand for many years. I hated the football under barraclough , i hated it even more under malpas. It didnt stop me from going though because i still believed that we would come good and the club was going in the right direction. Now i dont. We have no actual long term plan both on and off the park. Its jobs for the boys and a 4-1 win against a shit ross county side changes nothing. Folk like you getting on at people for losing hope and not going is the kind of apathy that is going to ruin us. People are stopping going and a lot of guys are stopping going because of mcghee and co. Once we lose decent punters, we will never get them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I bet I'm not the only one to see the irony in the last few posts. Fair do's to MJW and Wellarmy. Something else, I don't get your argument. You staying away is non apathetic and not detrimental to the club because.....?????? I am by no means a Mark McGhee lover but most definitely not a hater either. I can totally understand why some do really dislike the bloke but there has to be some acceptance of the reality of our situation. A club like ours will always have to make compromises on the types of player and coaching staff we select. In McGhees case, I believe the trade off is in our favour based upon his experience and proven record with our club. To all who call for his head, I would say be careful what you ask for. We've once again seen many changes to our squad and better paid managers such as Moyes, Mazzari and Mourinho are still struggling to find the correct system or starting 11. Yesterday saw only one of last seasons back 5 start the match and we had a brand new central midfield playing together for the first time. If McGhee sees the season out, he will see us safe. Given our financial situation, we're unlikely to attract any real managerial talent and have to accept that unless we really smash it with the youth academy or community engagement, then fan ownership will mean a life of mediocrity at best. I feel more comfortable having a guy like McGhee to maintain mediocrity over obscurity. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Your claims that people are looking for excuses not to go and that they hate mcghee more than they love motherwell thats what. I gave up my season ticket this season, the first time ive not been in the same seat in the DC stand for many years. I hated the football under barraclough , i hated it even more under malpas. It didnt stop me from going though because i still believed that we would come good and the club was going in the right direction. Now i dont. We have no actual long term plan both on and off the park. Its jobs for the boys and a 4-1 win against a shit ross county side changes nothing. Folk like you getting on at people for losing hope and not going is the kind of apathy that is going to ruin us. People are stopping going and a lot of guys are stopping going because of mcghee and co. Once we lose decent punters, we will never get them back. Fair enough.For the second time this weekend I'm suitably chastised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yes MJW, it's YOUR fault. It's YOU and YOUR apathy that's making the club lose decent punters. How dare you have hope 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yes MJW, it's YOUR fault. It's YOU and YOUR apathy that's making the club lose decent punters. How dare you have hope 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Tweed Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 McGhee is never going to be all that likable or a universal taste but he actually does know what he is doing, is a competent manager at the level we're at and was a country mile more inspiring than anyone else who was interested in taking us on just over a year ago. Not sure he has recruited as well as Baraclough did but if he can get the best out of Ainsworth, McDonald et al then he'll move us on just nicely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Desp Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Your claims that people are looking for excuses not to go and that they hate mcghee more than they love motherwell thats what. I gave up my season ticket this season, the first time ive not been in the same seat in the DC stand for many years. I hated the football under barraclough , i hated it even more under malpas. It didnt stop me from going though because i still believed that we would come good and the club was going in the right direction. Now i dont. We have no actual long term plan both on and off the park. Its jobs for the boys and a 4-1 win against a shit ross county side changes nothing. Folk like you getting on at people for losing hope and not going is the kind of apathy that is going to ruin us. People are stopping going and a lot of guys are stopping going because of mcghee and co. Once we lose decent punters, we will never get them back. If posting bollocks like that makes you feel better about bailing out on going to Motherwell games, then fair play to you. There's no plan on or off the park? Well that's bullshit. There's every chance you don't agree or like the plans in place, but to suggest there isn't, is wrong. The plan off the park has been spoken of at length over the last 48 hours. On the park, it's clearly trying to profit from lower league English players along with promoting our youth players. What is, if anything is at all, going to ruin us is people throwing the toys out the pram and not turning up. That affects the club more than any "happy clappy" fan bumping their gums. All this "we'll never get those decent punters back". That's down to the punter himself. Nobody made that choice but the person in question. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gadgey Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 McGhee is never going to be all that likable or a universal taste but he actually does know what he is doing, is a competent manager at the level we're at and was a country mile more inspiring than anyone else who was interested in taking us on just over a year ago. Not sure he has recruited as well as Baraclough did but if he can get the best out of Ainsworth, McDonald et al then he'll move us on just nicely. Wholeheartedly agreed, other than to say that Baraclough had more money to spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brazilian Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 All this "we'll never get those decent punters back". That's down to the punter himself. Nobody made that choice but the person in question. No point in getting into a shouting match but that's just not true, and you probably know it Club is a business as part of a co-operative selling products, up to that business group to make sure that as much of the population are tempted to pay for the products and remain as customers. Every single one of us will know one or more person that no longer attends, most of them have moved on to other things, not just for one reason but for an accumulation of reasons. its down to the business to stop the negatives mounting up, to a point, punters stop attending. having an arrogant egotistical man as the figure head of the team is a factor - club opted to live with that. add it to a list of factors and it may well be a deciding point for some. doesnt mean their opinions should be held in derision , maybe if there was decent match scheduling, half decent gate prices, standing sections etc, some would still be in a habit of attending matches maybe with mates and could live through the negative they see in McGhee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Del_Superwell Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I will never not attend games at fir park, no matter how good or shite the team is, who the manager is etc etc, I will always be there and never turn my back on the club. Even if we were in League 2 playing week in week out i'd still be there, maybe i'm a mug for being such a big fan of the club but in the words of Sevco fans, I wont do walking away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Welldaft Mk1 Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 No point in getting into a shouting match but that's just not true, and you probably know it Club is a business as part of a co-operative selling products, up to that business group to make sure that as much of the population are tempted to pay for the products and remain as customers. Every single one of us will know one or more person that no longer attends, most of them have moved on to other things, not just for one reason but for an accumulation of reasons. its down to the business to stop the negatives mounting up, to a point, punters stop attending. having an arrogant egotistical man as the figure head of the team is a factor - club opted to live with that. add it to a list of factors and it may well be a deciding point for some. doesnt mean their opinions should be held in derision , maybe if there was decent match scheduling, half decent gate prices, standing sections etc, some would still be in a habit of attending matches maybe with mates and could live through the negative they see in McGhee. That is what I don't get. Mourinho + Sir Alex + Pep Guardiola are all or were arrogant and egotistical. Those traits sadly often make for decent football managers. What ever anyone says McGhee has done a decent job in both his spells at Motherwell. After Wednesday the knives were out again, not without reason I might add, but we have such an impatient and narrow minded support. I will get pelters for this, but I am glad we turned in one of our best and most enjoyable performances for quite some time and quite a few fans missed it - probably because they could not be arsed going along after Wednesday night. I will absolutely agree that club have repeatedly failed the fans by poor communication and all round poor customer service. I hope this fan engagement chap makes a difference. Let's face it - in his favour he is starting from a very low benchmark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Desp Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yea Brazilian, the club has a part to play in making sure they do all they can to keep the fans they have and where possible, attract new ones. I don't think it's a great secret the club have been poor at that in recent times. However, the point still stands that the decision to walk in or walk away from the football club, is made by the fan/consumer (call them what you like). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gadgey Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 No point in getting into a shouting match but that's just not true, and you probably know it Club is a business as part of a co-operative selling products, up to that business group to make sure that as much of the population are tempted to pay for the products and remain as customers. Every single one of us will know one or more person that no longer attends, most of them have moved on to other things, not just for one reason but for an accumulation of reasons. its down to the business to stop the negatives mounting up, to a point, punters stop attending. having an arrogant egotistical man as the figure head of the team is a factor - club opted to live with that. add it to a list of factors and it may well be a deciding point for some. doesnt mean their opinions should be held in derision , maybe if there was decent match scheduling, half decent gate prices, standing sections etc, some would still be in a habit of attending matches maybe with mates and could live through the negative they see in McGhee. Some valid points with regards the dire state of the Scottish game but other than the mitigation of cost of entry and perhaps necessity of relocation, you can't ignore the inescapable fact that as individuals we make choices. Some choose to go, some choose not to. The club cannot be held ultimately accountable for that. And on topic of hating McGhee, he's not the first and won't be the last arrogant egotist to manage Motherwell FC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Yassin Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 There might be the odd exception but I'd imagine anyone who stops going to games solely because they don't like Mark Mcghee's personality-because it can't be his results- would just find some other reason to stay away if he wasn't in charge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I was a big critic of McGhee's approach off the park the first time he was here. Especially his loud mouth comments about wanting the Celtic job and the Scotland job every other week. I actually think he is doing much better this time around and I find his press conferences much more entertaining than a Baraclough or a McCall. Not perfect, and I don't believe a word he says about transfers or injuries or what he really thinks of players etc. but that's part of the job. He has his tactical flaws and every now and then overthinks and over complicates things on the field, but he recognizes the need to try and play attacking and entertaining football and overall I think he's doing a good job given the wide and varied constraints of budgets, inheriting an oversize squad, the need to bring in youngsters without disrupting the team, the community work the club does and the old and new ownership structures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Al B Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I really like Mark McGhee. Even if he wasn't Motherwell manager, I'd still really like Mark McGhee. I don't find him arrogant or egotistical at all, to the point where I'm not sure where people are getting such extreme evidence of it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... rambunctious Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I really like Mark McGhee. Even if he wasn't Motherwell manager, I'd still really like Mark McGhee. I don't find him arrogant or egotistical at all, to the point where I'm not sure where people are getting such extreme evidence of it. I must admit that I'm the same. McGhee is far from the perfect manager (some of his tactical ideas and team selections can be mind-boggling) but he will get it right eventually, and has done each season he has been with us. I trust him. With regards to his 'off-the-field' ability, I just find him to be quite...honest (other than when he talks transfers etc.). A lot of people seemingly don't like what he says, but he does just speak his mind, and probably doesn't care what any of the posters on Steelmen Online think of it. I'd much rather he says something truthful (and possibly offend/annoy me) than just roll out the same old cliches that we normally hear before/after every single game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... weeyin Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 With regards to his 'off-the-field' ability, I just find him to be quite...honest (other than when he talks transfers etc.). A lot of people seemingly don't like what he says, but he does just speak his mind, and probably doesn't care what any of the posters on Steelmen Online think of it. I'd much rather he says something truthful (and possibly offend/annoy me) than just roll out the same old cliches that we normally hear before/after every single game. Exactly. Plus the guy had a lot of success as a player in an excellent Aberdeen team, European success and a stint in Germany. So he has a lot of interesting stories to tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Yoshi-1991 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Off the field I just find him boring. I go to watch his pre and post match interviews and end up closing them down half way in because im just bored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Goggles & Flippers Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I suspect his public and personal faces are very different. I do think he think he's knows his shit, even if he doesn't. He does have a wealth of management experience to back it up so I'm more inclined to listen to him than someone who has just progressed from playing to coaching. The issue I have is since he was appointed I repeatedly said "once he has a pre-season under his belt, we'll see a different team with bite and guile that's been missing". I was unimpressed with how we started and how we looked back in July, far from what I expected. I suppose we were spoiled back in his last stint at what he achieved with the likes of Stepover and co. His signings have appeared to misfire. We don't know where many of them were on the signing target list. If it was 5th or 6th that would explain a lot. While looking at the league table, everyone outside Celtic is very tight, there isn't much at all, but drubbings are much more common than I recall, either receiving or giving them. I'm all for giving Celtic a degree of respect just because of their strength in depth and financial clout, but I don't want my manager (and McCall was even more guilty) vocalising that to the media. ICT's record against both Celtic and the previous incarnation of Rangers is something we used to do around 10-15 years ago every season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... capt_oats Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm slightly biased here since much like Al B, I'm a McGhee fan. I like him as a manager, I think he speaks well and over the piece feel he's done a decent job. Looking at it rationally I'd say in terms of his experience along with his current and past track record he's as good a manager as we're likely to attract right now. The fact that in recent weeks we've seen Cadden called up to the Scottish u21s along with Jack McMillan, Ross MacLean, Allan Campbell, Jake Hastie and David Ferguson all making appearances for the first team suggests he's on the right track regardless of the circumstances that got him there (as an example; would Cadden have got a shot if we'd signed Grimshaw?). As it stands McGhee has a win % of 40.29% in 134 games. Post-McLean the only two permanent managers with better win %s than him are McCall 41.95% in 174 games and Brown 46.67% in 45 matches (which, relatively, is such a small sample you can't really compare). Given McGhee took over a side that had finished 10th in the league the season prior and was parachuted in last season as things were going south then only someone who was particularly hard of thinking would suggest that his stats don't stand up well. FWIW, based solely on his current spell his win % is 41.30%. Put in a broader context Tommy Wright's win % at St Johnstone is 44.23%, Jim McIntyre 38.14%, Richie Foran 35.29%, Alan Archibald 35.03%, Paul Hartley 34.48%, Lee Clark 26.7%, Martin Canning 25.68% so he compares reasonably well against others in the league too. Neilson, McInnes, Warburton and Rodgers all have better win %s but given 2 of them had a season in the Championship added to the resources available it's understandable that their records will show up well. There are plenty of legitimate questions that can be levelled at McGhee and it can be easy for there to be a degree of snark. It'd be nice if he didn't do things like play Stevie Hammell at right back at Tynecastle but if it's the option of having a manager who has the occasional disaster and might rub some fans the wrong way but for the most part manages to navigate the side to anywhere between 3rd and 7th or a nice guy Bara-type manager then I'll go with the former. Questioning his team selections etc is all fair game he's a football manager after all and is to be expected but the moon howling, porridge dribbling, knee jerk #mcgheeout chat and latent seethe that greets a defeat on Facebook and Twitter is genuinely Brexit-level idiocy tbqh. As a few have said on the board recently if someone decides to stop going to games that's up to them, if they've stopped going to games because they've decided they "hate" the manager then it says far more about the individual in question than it does McGhee IMO. I get that people will try to rationalise their bias or prejudice by picking up on quotes, perceived mistakes or just a poor performance and result but it really is wearying. Managers leave clubs eventually it really doesn't need the villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches marching on Fir Park every time he says something that certain sections of the fanbase deign to be offended by. I'm generally not a fan of whataboutery but I do find the reactions to McGhee perplexing when stacked up against McCall, who, full disclosure: I didn't like and have never liked however I can't argue with the results he had at the club. For me, McCall's comments pre-LC against Sevco were worse than anything McGhee's ever said and been vilified for about Celtic; we were top of the league they were a new side in the 4th tier and he's banging on about how big a club they are and how we weren't favourites? Bitch please! The less said about the performance and result that night the better too. McCall oversaw some absolute capitulations home and away vs them and as Joeboy alludes to in another thread he spoke to another club about taking up a position and at various stages we put in some utterly dire performances (and not just in his ill-fated final few months), he made some absolutely brutal signings and youth development by and large stagnated during his time at the club yet broadly speaking the contrasting perceptions of the two couldn't be more marked. Ultimately McGhee's a manager who has his faults but then again in my 30 years of heading along to Fir Park so has every other manager the club has had. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... joewarkfanclub Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Some well thought out posts bringing some balance to the debate. Im not a McGhee hater, and was willing to give him a chance despite the nature of his exit last time round. I thought he did well last season to turn us around and I guess I, like many others, expected him to build on that and for us to enjoy a relatively successful season. The fact that this hasnt happened and that the managers faults have been laid bare is probably the most exasperating thing for most fans. When that happens most supporters will revert to their default position on the manager. Ive no idea where we will finish this season. I think it will largely depend on whether Mark McGhee can play to his strengths and control the urges he has to overthink things. Playing our best players in their natural positions is a good start. Whether injuries and tactics will allow us to keep doing that is another matter. I agree that McGhee is probably as good a manager as we can attract at the moment. The Ross County game has bought him some time. Hopefully he will learn the lessons from the last few weeks and we can continue to play positive attacking football for the rest of the season. If he does, we will win more than we lose in this league. If he doesnt, he will be out the door sooner or later and we will be back to square 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Goggles & Flippers Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Good post Oats, but I don't think it's fair to lump in McGhee's first stint with vastly different players to his current squad. Therefore when comparing to the likes of Archibald, Hartley and Clark his record since returning should be used and that's far from encouraging. If you've still got access to the stats, what's his % since returning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... capt_oats Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Good post Oats, but I don't think it's fair to lump in McGhee's first stint with vastly different players to his current squad. Therefore when comparing to the likes of Archibald, Hartley and Clark his record since returning should be used and that's far from encouraging. If you've still got access to the stats, what's his % since returning? 41.30% according to Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_McGhee. (page updated on 29th October) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Goggles & Flippers Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 It doesn't feel like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Loading... × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply Share More sharing options... Followers 0
Tweed Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 McGhee is never going to be all that likable or a universal taste but he actually does know what he is doing, is a competent manager at the level we're at and was a country mile more inspiring than anyone else who was interested in taking us on just over a year ago. Not sure he has recruited as well as Baraclough did but if he can get the best out of Ainsworth, McDonald et al then he'll move us on just nicely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Your claims that people are looking for excuses not to go and that they hate mcghee more than they love motherwell thats what. I gave up my season ticket this season, the first time ive not been in the same seat in the DC stand for many years. I hated the football under barraclough , i hated it even more under malpas. It didnt stop me from going though because i still believed that we would come good and the club was going in the right direction. Now i dont. We have no actual long term plan both on and off the park. Its jobs for the boys and a 4-1 win against a shit ross county side changes nothing. Folk like you getting on at people for losing hope and not going is the kind of apathy that is going to ruin us. People are stopping going and a lot of guys are stopping going because of mcghee and co. Once we lose decent punters, we will never get them back. If posting bollocks like that makes you feel better about bailing out on going to Motherwell games, then fair play to you. There's no plan on or off the park? Well that's bullshit. There's every chance you don't agree or like the plans in place, but to suggest there isn't, is wrong. The plan off the park has been spoken of at length over the last 48 hours. On the park, it's clearly trying to profit from lower league English players along with promoting our youth players. What is, if anything is at all, going to ruin us is people throwing the toys out the pram and not turning up. That affects the club more than any "happy clappy" fan bumping their gums. All this "we'll never get those decent punters back". That's down to the punter himself. Nobody made that choice but the person in question. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 McGhee is never going to be all that likable or a universal taste but he actually does know what he is doing, is a competent manager at the level we're at and was a country mile more inspiring than anyone else who was interested in taking us on just over a year ago. Not sure he has recruited as well as Baraclough did but if he can get the best out of Ainsworth, McDonald et al then he'll move us on just nicely. Wholeheartedly agreed, other than to say that Baraclough had more money to spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 All this "we'll never get those decent punters back". That's down to the punter himself. Nobody made that choice but the person in question. No point in getting into a shouting match but that's just not true, and you probably know it Club is a business as part of a co-operative selling products, up to that business group to make sure that as much of the population are tempted to pay for the products and remain as customers. Every single one of us will know one or more person that no longer attends, most of them have moved on to other things, not just for one reason but for an accumulation of reasons. its down to the business to stop the negatives mounting up, to a point, punters stop attending. having an arrogant egotistical man as the figure head of the team is a factor - club opted to live with that. add it to a list of factors and it may well be a deciding point for some. doesnt mean their opinions should be held in derision , maybe if there was decent match scheduling, half decent gate prices, standing sections etc, some would still be in a habit of attending matches maybe with mates and could live through the negative they see in McGhee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del_Superwell Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I will never not attend games at fir park, no matter how good or shite the team is, who the manager is etc etc, I will always be there and never turn my back on the club. Even if we were in League 2 playing week in week out i'd still be there, maybe i'm a mug for being such a big fan of the club but in the words of Sevco fans, I wont do walking away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 No point in getting into a shouting match but that's just not true, and you probably know it Club is a business as part of a co-operative selling products, up to that business group to make sure that as much of the population are tempted to pay for the products and remain as customers. Every single one of us will know one or more person that no longer attends, most of them have moved on to other things, not just for one reason but for an accumulation of reasons. its down to the business to stop the negatives mounting up, to a point, punters stop attending. having an arrogant egotistical man as the figure head of the team is a factor - club opted to live with that. add it to a list of factors and it may well be a deciding point for some. doesnt mean their opinions should be held in derision , maybe if there was decent match scheduling, half decent gate prices, standing sections etc, some would still be in a habit of attending matches maybe with mates and could live through the negative they see in McGhee. That is what I don't get. Mourinho + Sir Alex + Pep Guardiola are all or were arrogant and egotistical. Those traits sadly often make for decent football managers. What ever anyone says McGhee has done a decent job in both his spells at Motherwell. After Wednesday the knives were out again, not without reason I might add, but we have such an impatient and narrow minded support. I will get pelters for this, but I am glad we turned in one of our best and most enjoyable performances for quite some time and quite a few fans missed it - probably because they could not be arsed going along after Wednesday night. I will absolutely agree that club have repeatedly failed the fans by poor communication and all round poor customer service. I hope this fan engagement chap makes a difference. Let's face it - in his favour he is starting from a very low benchmark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yea Brazilian, the club has a part to play in making sure they do all they can to keep the fans they have and where possible, attract new ones. I don't think it's a great secret the club have been poor at that in recent times. However, the point still stands that the decision to walk in or walk away from the football club, is made by the fan/consumer (call them what you like). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 No point in getting into a shouting match but that's just not true, and you probably know it Club is a business as part of a co-operative selling products, up to that business group to make sure that as much of the population are tempted to pay for the products and remain as customers. Every single one of us will know one or more person that no longer attends, most of them have moved on to other things, not just for one reason but for an accumulation of reasons. its down to the business to stop the negatives mounting up, to a point, punters stop attending. having an arrogant egotistical man as the figure head of the team is a factor - club opted to live with that. add it to a list of factors and it may well be a deciding point for some. doesnt mean their opinions should be held in derision , maybe if there was decent match scheduling, half decent gate prices, standing sections etc, some would still be in a habit of attending matches maybe with mates and could live through the negative they see in McGhee. Some valid points with regards the dire state of the Scottish game but other than the mitigation of cost of entry and perhaps necessity of relocation, you can't ignore the inescapable fact that as individuals we make choices. Some choose to go, some choose not to. The club cannot be held ultimately accountable for that. And on topic of hating McGhee, he's not the first and won't be the last arrogant egotist to manage Motherwell FC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 There might be the odd exception but I'd imagine anyone who stops going to games solely because they don't like Mark Mcghee's personality-because it can't be his results- would just find some other reason to stay away if he wasn't in charge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I was a big critic of McGhee's approach off the park the first time he was here. Especially his loud mouth comments about wanting the Celtic job and the Scotland job every other week. I actually think he is doing much better this time around and I find his press conferences much more entertaining than a Baraclough or a McCall. Not perfect, and I don't believe a word he says about transfers or injuries or what he really thinks of players etc. but that's part of the job. He has his tactical flaws and every now and then overthinks and over complicates things on the field, but he recognizes the need to try and play attacking and entertaining football and overall I think he's doing a good job given the wide and varied constraints of budgets, inheriting an oversize squad, the need to bring in youngsters without disrupting the team, the community work the club does and the old and new ownership structures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I really like Mark McGhee. Even if he wasn't Motherwell manager, I'd still really like Mark McGhee. I don't find him arrogant or egotistical at all, to the point where I'm not sure where people are getting such extreme evidence of it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambunctious Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I really like Mark McGhee. Even if he wasn't Motherwell manager, I'd still really like Mark McGhee. I don't find him arrogant or egotistical at all, to the point where I'm not sure where people are getting such extreme evidence of it. I must admit that I'm the same. McGhee is far from the perfect manager (some of his tactical ideas and team selections can be mind-boggling) but he will get it right eventually, and has done each season he has been with us. I trust him. With regards to his 'off-the-field' ability, I just find him to be quite...honest (other than when he talks transfers etc.). A lot of people seemingly don't like what he says, but he does just speak his mind, and probably doesn't care what any of the posters on Steelmen Online think of it. I'd much rather he says something truthful (and possibly offend/annoy me) than just roll out the same old cliches that we normally hear before/after every single game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 With regards to his 'off-the-field' ability, I just find him to be quite...honest (other than when he talks transfers etc.). A lot of people seemingly don't like what he says, but he does just speak his mind, and probably doesn't care what any of the posters on Steelmen Online think of it. I'd much rather he says something truthful (and possibly offend/annoy me) than just roll out the same old cliches that we normally hear before/after every single game. Exactly. Plus the guy had a lot of success as a player in an excellent Aberdeen team, European success and a stint in Germany. So he has a lot of interesting stories to tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Off the field I just find him boring. I go to watch his pre and post match interviews and end up closing them down half way in because im just bored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I suspect his public and personal faces are very different. I do think he think he's knows his shit, even if he doesn't. He does have a wealth of management experience to back it up so I'm more inclined to listen to him than someone who has just progressed from playing to coaching. The issue I have is since he was appointed I repeatedly said "once he has a pre-season under his belt, we'll see a different team with bite and guile that's been missing". I was unimpressed with how we started and how we looked back in July, far from what I expected. I suppose we were spoiled back in his last stint at what he achieved with the likes of Stepover and co. His signings have appeared to misfire. We don't know where many of them were on the signing target list. If it was 5th or 6th that would explain a lot. While looking at the league table, everyone outside Celtic is very tight, there isn't much at all, but drubbings are much more common than I recall, either receiving or giving them. I'm all for giving Celtic a degree of respect just because of their strength in depth and financial clout, but I don't want my manager (and McCall was even more guilty) vocalising that to the media. ICT's record against both Celtic and the previous incarnation of Rangers is something we used to do around 10-15 years ago every season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm slightly biased here since much like Al B, I'm a McGhee fan. I like him as a manager, I think he speaks well and over the piece feel he's done a decent job. Looking at it rationally I'd say in terms of his experience along with his current and past track record he's as good a manager as we're likely to attract right now. The fact that in recent weeks we've seen Cadden called up to the Scottish u21s along with Jack McMillan, Ross MacLean, Allan Campbell, Jake Hastie and David Ferguson all making appearances for the first team suggests he's on the right track regardless of the circumstances that got him there (as an example; would Cadden have got a shot if we'd signed Grimshaw?). As it stands McGhee has a win % of 40.29% in 134 games. Post-McLean the only two permanent managers with better win %s than him are McCall 41.95% in 174 games and Brown 46.67% in 45 matches (which, relatively, is such a small sample you can't really compare). Given McGhee took over a side that had finished 10th in the league the season prior and was parachuted in last season as things were going south then only someone who was particularly hard of thinking would suggest that his stats don't stand up well. FWIW, based solely on his current spell his win % is 41.30%. Put in a broader context Tommy Wright's win % at St Johnstone is 44.23%, Jim McIntyre 38.14%, Richie Foran 35.29%, Alan Archibald 35.03%, Paul Hartley 34.48%, Lee Clark 26.7%, Martin Canning 25.68% so he compares reasonably well against others in the league too. Neilson, McInnes, Warburton and Rodgers all have better win %s but given 2 of them had a season in the Championship added to the resources available it's understandable that their records will show up well. There are plenty of legitimate questions that can be levelled at McGhee and it can be easy for there to be a degree of snark. It'd be nice if he didn't do things like play Stevie Hammell at right back at Tynecastle but if it's the option of having a manager who has the occasional disaster and might rub some fans the wrong way but for the most part manages to navigate the side to anywhere between 3rd and 7th or a nice guy Bara-type manager then I'll go with the former. Questioning his team selections etc is all fair game he's a football manager after all and is to be expected but the moon howling, porridge dribbling, knee jerk #mcgheeout chat and latent seethe that greets a defeat on Facebook and Twitter is genuinely Brexit-level idiocy tbqh. As a few have said on the board recently if someone decides to stop going to games that's up to them, if they've stopped going to games because they've decided they "hate" the manager then it says far more about the individual in question than it does McGhee IMO. I get that people will try to rationalise their bias or prejudice by picking up on quotes, perceived mistakes or just a poor performance and result but it really is wearying. Managers leave clubs eventually it really doesn't need the villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches marching on Fir Park every time he says something that certain sections of the fanbase deign to be offended by. I'm generally not a fan of whataboutery but I do find the reactions to McGhee perplexing when stacked up against McCall, who, full disclosure: I didn't like and have never liked however I can't argue with the results he had at the club. For me, McCall's comments pre-LC against Sevco were worse than anything McGhee's ever said and been vilified for about Celtic; we were top of the league they were a new side in the 4th tier and he's banging on about how big a club they are and how we weren't favourites? Bitch please! The less said about the performance and result that night the better too. McCall oversaw some absolute capitulations home and away vs them and as Joeboy alludes to in another thread he spoke to another club about taking up a position and at various stages we put in some utterly dire performances (and not just in his ill-fated final few months), he made some absolutely brutal signings and youth development by and large stagnated during his time at the club yet broadly speaking the contrasting perceptions of the two couldn't be more marked. Ultimately McGhee's a manager who has his faults but then again in my 30 years of heading along to Fir Park so has every other manager the club has had. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Some well thought out posts bringing some balance to the debate. Im not a McGhee hater, and was willing to give him a chance despite the nature of his exit last time round. I thought he did well last season to turn us around and I guess I, like many others, expected him to build on that and for us to enjoy a relatively successful season. The fact that this hasnt happened and that the managers faults have been laid bare is probably the most exasperating thing for most fans. When that happens most supporters will revert to their default position on the manager. Ive no idea where we will finish this season. I think it will largely depend on whether Mark McGhee can play to his strengths and control the urges he has to overthink things. Playing our best players in their natural positions is a good start. Whether injuries and tactics will allow us to keep doing that is another matter. I agree that McGhee is probably as good a manager as we can attract at the moment. The Ross County game has bought him some time. Hopefully he will learn the lessons from the last few weeks and we can continue to play positive attacking football for the rest of the season. If he does, we will win more than we lose in this league. If he doesnt, he will be out the door sooner or later and we will be back to square 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Good post Oats, but I don't think it's fair to lump in McGhee's first stint with vastly different players to his current squad. Therefore when comparing to the likes of Archibald, Hartley and Clark his record since returning should be used and that's far from encouraging. If you've still got access to the stats, what's his % since returning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Good post Oats, but I don't think it's fair to lump in McGhee's first stint with vastly different players to his current squad. Therefore when comparing to the likes of Archibald, Hartley and Clark his record since returning should be used and that's far from encouraging. If you've still got access to the stats, what's his % since returning? 41.30% according to Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_McGhee. (page updated on 29th October) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goggles & Flippers Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 It doesn't feel like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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