the traveller Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 We should be concerned about our current precarious financial position. To paraphrase again' the Board acknowledges that the club's liquidity is reliant on the continued availability of loan funding further which may be needed in January 2016'. It would be needed if 'their cash flow forecasts which are critically dependent on football performance(both league and cup) in season 2015/16 and player trading income in January 2016 'are not met. We can not exist on continuing increased borrowings, they have to be repaid at some point soon. Given our likely league performance where if we stay up that will be a success and our cup form is crap there is not much likelihood of projected revenues being met and what players are we going to sell in January? Our expenditure will not be decreased in the near future. How therefore are we going to balance the books and get on an even proper keel based upon the forgoing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 he did make the trip over to albania so gets a pass here he made the trip to Greece as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 As Lobey Dosser mentioned in an earlier post if the club lives within its means then the WS might have a significant role to play, not to run the club on its own that has always been a non starter but to provide a bit of financial support as required. A club of our size will always need a wealthy owner/owners ie Hutchison, Boyle, Chapman etc Absolutely spot on . Some people need to wake up quickly. A club like ours will never be run by fans , most want to watch football not enough are interested in running anything. I put my money in to the society to give the club a fancy named loan system . Good luck to the new guy he will need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't doubt we have lost a few home fans from Fir Park, as the product is getting worse and the prices are going up, which would cause any business to lose customers. However, I think a significant part of the problem has been that clubs that bring decent supports have been in the lower leagues. I know Hearts, Hibs and Rangers have caught the headlines but even teams like St Mirren, Dunfermline, Morton, etc would bring more than County or ICT. Hamilton also bring an atrocious number for being just across the road. It's been mentioned a few times, and a couple of one-offs have been explored, but there should really be more done to encourage away fans to attend, particularly matches that are a bit further afield. Just off the top of my head, can Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, Inverness and Ross County not sit down together and offer fans an away ticket for each game involving their side for £75 a pop, with proceeds from each sale going to their own club? It would mean a good deal for folk who turn up to all the matches (pretty much half price) and I think knowing that the cash went to the 'Well means folk would buy it without being sure they could make them all. Might not be the answer but something has to be done. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 You're right Frazzle. The number of people who are able to make it home and away diminishes each season. More and more pick and choose away games weighing up things like price, date and location of the fixture. Your post reminds me of a couple of conversations I've had in the past with Brazilian about away supports and his instance that the club have to fight much much harder to win the custom of visiting supporters and make Fir Park high on their list of choices for away days. How do you do that? Price in conjunction with communication is a good combination to start with. I sent the club an idea a couple of seasons back when we used to get a weekly email from them previewing the next fixture. Essentially this a bit of news and some stats tagged on to an email where they would try to hawk hospitality, the match programme and merchandise etc. But it wasnt' too bad, kept a regular flow of information from the club. My idea was that you could set something up similar for each away support and ping off two or three emails to away fans in the lead up to the game at Fir Park. You could easily pad it out to make it half decent and relatively interesting. Obviously the key point you want to get across would be the price and any details of ticket sales but you could still advertise hospitality, offer messages over the tannoy and on the scoreboard, punt the programme by letting them know what the features on the away team will be, give travel details and so on before you even got the stats and recollecting previous visits. Essentially though you would be building up a relationship up with that particular fan and if they are of the group where they pick and choose by establishing that relationship you're giving yourself a greater chance of enticing them to Motherwell rather than their money going to say Hamilton or Kilmarnock. Unfortunately the email to try to build interest in our next fixture and our own merch and hospitality seems to have bitten the dust far less been expanded to go out to away supporters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianc Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Anyone got a link to the accounts please. Despite being a Soc member I don't get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 They are just sent to shareholders so I don't think there is a link online yet. Companies house will publish at some point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Anyone got a link to the accounts please. Despite being a Soc member I don't get them. The club's accounts are quite separate from those of the Society - only shareholders receive the club's accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decorator Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 it's not good reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmen Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 The club's accounts are quite separate from those of the Society - only shareholders receive the club's accounts. But thanks to the first loan to the club, the Society are shareholders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdalli10 Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Some of the posts in this thread about losing over a million, budgeting for top 6, cup run and player sales and the accounts not looking great give me the fear. It makes the signings of Robinson and Samson even more strange. We really need to live within our means even if it means dropping down a division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Agreed Gordy...I just want a team to support, and to be fair all this financial talk and society stuff bores me to tears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Some of the posts in this thread about losing over a million, budgeting for top 6, cup run and player sales and the accounts not looking great give me the fear. It makes the signings of Robinson and Samson even more strange. We really need to live within our means even if it means dropping down a division. Samson came after the period these financial results cover so can't really be figured in to the equation if you are being fair. Especially when we have +£700k received in fees since those results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 We really need to tighten up on what we're spending. I assumed that Les coming in would have been the perfect time for the club to get its affairs in order and ensure that when he leaves we're not up shit creek without a paddle. The first warning sign for me was when we heard chat about bringing through our own youth, and then proceeded to go ahead and sign a load of new players both to permanent deals and on loan, pushing some of the more promising youth players to the back of the line. Again. I was hit with chat that the young players obviously aren't good enough otherwise they'd be in the team in the first place. The point is that obviously they're not going to be better than Manchester United and Middlesborough youth players! But we can't afford players of that level! We should have cut away the big earners & the dead wood, and brought through some of the lads who've done well in the youth team, coupled with a few outside signings. Will that philosophy see us challenging for top 6? Possibly not, and it may even see us continue to flirt with relegation, but at the end of the day we simply should not be spending more than we bring in. I hate to say it, but Accies have shown the way ahead for clubs of our size when it comes to youth and how to approach that side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Of course Accies had a couple of big scores on the youth front recently, but prior to that they were scrabbling around in the lower divisions for decades. And if they hadn't done the supermarket deal, who knows if they'd have even stayed solvent. It's a tough balancing act to bring in the youngsters and I totally understand why managers are more reluctant to throw them into a struggling team. Crags seems to be pretty honest with his assessments though, and by all accounts, he thinks there is work still to be done with a lot of the youngsters, even the ones we think are ready for the step up.I'd love to see our own talent coming through, but if we end up making money by bringing in Moults and Johnsons and selling them on, that's OK too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 What does not spending more than we bring actually mean though? High level that is easy to say but in practicalities... Does it mean we only spend what we are guaranteed in any one season? So, that is the prize and TV money for 12th place. If we target 11th it's not guaranteed. We only spend season ticket money once it's actually banked? Same for advertising money and hospitality throughout the season? Or does it means we do the above but also spend money we hopefully have extra from the previous season? So our outgoings will be more than then incoming technically as we are working from our reserve banked. A rather crude way to look at it - but my point is we will always have to forecast elements of the budget every year (e.g. a minimum but not guaranteed season ticket and advertising income). We need to have a better more balanced forecast that blends a prudent outlook but also gives the chance to succeed and do better than targeted. Targeting top 6 and semifinals of cups is mad. But say target 7th and quarter finals perhaps? I don't know but there is a better way to do it than just say we target lowest possible outcomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 yes forecasting is required but year on year the clubs board have failed to adapt to the situation as well as at least 4 or 5 of our direct rivals, to fail one year with the cup is fine, to fail what five years in arow with the same cup expectation budget forecast is borderline criminal. I still find it incredulous that the year we finished third then second we made a loss due to players bonuses being higher than expected.. but at the start of another 5year plan we go forward with a budget to make a loss, staggering. I'm also finished with the, line that our youth is not good enough, when we are paying! to bring in SPFL 2 level players and burning funds on them or 6th strikers and 4th goalkeepers. it might not be much money on each, but its cash...hard cash, the stuff that doesnt grow on trees. Lasley, Hammell, Faddy, Quinn, Clarkson would all have got the same line as not being ready from coaches like Craigan who are toeing the line and protecting themselves, unless the situation is forced by the board and the first team manager or the association everybody keeps going on about how things aren't as good as they used to be, look back at all the footballing greats or even the decent servants and look at the ages, they broke through to first team football. some of the lads getting first team are relative youths, there is absolutely no point in paying our lads wages if the club stick with this plan, Mcghee often pays lip service to giving youth a chance, he's very good at lip service.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I agree with most, if not all, you are saying Brazilian. In short my point is we need to forecast and budget much better than we have in the past. But, that does not mean we have to budget for the lowest possible outcome in league/cup/advertising/ticket sales etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Budgetting for a football club is a very difficult exercise given that there are so many uncertainties and unknowns. When the issue of budgetting for a top 6 finish has been aired at previous AGMs, Directors have emphasised this but added that if you budget for a bottom 6 finish then that is, more than likely where you'll end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superward Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Budgetting for a football club is a very difficult exercise given that there are so many uncertainties and unknowns. When the issue of budgetting for a top 6 finish has been aired at previous AGMs, Directors have emphasised this but added that if you budget for a bottom 6 finish then that is, more than likely where you'll end up. Yep - even just from the discussions and different view point on here it's clearly not a simple decision to make. Glad I an just flap my gums about it and not have to make the actual decision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Budgetting for a football club is a very difficult exercise given that there are so many uncertainties and unknowns. When the issue of budgetting for a top 6 finish has been aired at previous AGMs, Directors have emphasised this but added that if you budget for a bottom 6 finish then that is, more than likely where you'll end up. I've been to most of those meetings Dave, budgeting for top six , isn't the most influential factor on our losses,edit: the club has had many drops in income to deal with which could have damaged us severely without some extreme hard work from the board and staff at the club but bdgeting for cup runs has very nearly put us under, cup money always should be bonus money to increase budget for next season imho we're now 5 years or so into a crazy policy of spending it speculatively and barely getting any appearance money from abject failure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've been to most of those meetings Dave, budgeting for top six , isn't the most influential factor on our losses,edit: the club has had many drops in income to deal with which could have damaged us severely without some extreme hard work from the board and staff at the club but bdgeting for cup runs has very nearly put us under, cup money always should be bonus money to increase budget for next season imho we're now 5 years or so into a crazy policy of spending it speculatively and barely getting any appearance money from abject failure Presumably the Directors will be quizzed about this next Monday evening, Iain. Maybe matters will be clarified. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkydink Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Any feedback from the AGM last night? I wasn't able to get away from work in time to attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well 4 Europe Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Monday evening saw Fir Park host the 110th Annual General Meeting of Motherwell Football Club, yet the first where the owner shared his presence via an iPad hook-up from Barbados! The board kicked off proceedings by discussing the financial statements, confirming that the extra rent paid for the year ended May 2015 was a combination of issues with Dalziel Park, weather difficulties and Stuart McCall hiring Ravenscraig for a week to allow his squad some artificial surface experience before out Europa League trip to Iceland...... Season 2014/15 was described as an "annus horribilis" where everything which could go wrong did go wrong - except the play-offs! When challenged on why we remained managerless during November of last year it was advised that whilst the Argentinian consortium was still a possibility, a stipulation from them was that no successor to Stuart McCall was to be hired. Les Hutchison was next to speak, extolling the fact that from twelve months ago when we had nine first-team players out injured our new fitness regime sees only one player currently on the sidelines (Joe Chalmers). Whilst directing great praise on both Alan Burrows and the board "without whom you, the fans, would not have a club to support", his main focus was on fan ownership as he compared the eight thousand regular paying members of the Foundation of Hearts with the five hundred subscribed to The 'Well Society as "not good enough". Mark McGhee took the floor for the final part of the meeting, during which he referenced a new model for developing our young players which will be announced in the next few weeks with a core aim of having our eighteen-year-olds ready for first team action instead of two years in the Under 20's, and also feels that this philosophy will encourage more fans to join The 'Well Society. As both Motherwell manager and Scotland assistant he felt embarrassed that our team at Ross County contained only one Scot. He thought the two transfer fees we have paid recently for Marvin Johnson and Louis Moult to be money well spent and a mixture of better scouting and picking up players like Shaun Hutchison from exit trials as well as loan signings to plug any gaps will stand us in good stead. We had a youth player from Man City training with us for two weeks who Patrick Viera played in a game for us to watch but felt he wasn't ready to play yet, Mondays see our thirty-six man squad compete in a mini-league to get young players playing with our experienced professionals and he is keen for the likes of Dylan Mackin, Chris Cadden and Dom Thomas to go out on loan and get twenty first-team matches under their belts. WIth that, the meeting closed with hopes expressed that the current season concludes a lot more smoothly than the previous one. Copy and pasted from the boy over on Fir Park Corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the traveller Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 In response to a question we were advised that our players wages to turnover is in the' 70's% ' which is particularly relevant to the this thread of discussion. It was not indicated that it was intended to bring this down substantially in the near future so if increased revenue through cup runs/player sales does not materialise we will have further major problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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