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Motherwell V Hamilton Sat 2 Jan 15:00


Yabba's Turd
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for me it's a soft penalty but it was hardly surprising he gave it as the longer the 2nd half went on it had a feel about it that the referee was gonna cost us.the standard of officiating up here really is dire there must have been 4 or 5 occasion's when the ball went out of play and the ref and the linesman just looked at each other and didn't have a clue which way to award it,fucking arseholes

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At minute 90+3 we had several opportunities to foul the guy before we did give the one they launched into the box that caused the penalty.

Interesting you say that. We timed the penalty at about 93 minutes. After Crawford scored the ref allowed Accies to celebrate for a full minute. When the game resumed he blew for full time a few seconds after. Refs usually add on about 30 seconds for every goal scored. By my reckoning he blew his whistle at the 93:30 mark, despite the 4th official indicating a minimum of 5 minutes extra.

 

Anyway, 2 points dropped but can we really be surprised? We did not match Accies' workrate off the ball and allowed them too much space and time. Not for the first time recently we were the better footballing side but couldn't match our opponents endeavour. A tremendous goal by Louis Moult was the highlight of the game for me. At times our defence looked a bit disorganised and again the central midfield went missing when it mattered. I felt a bit sorry for Marvin Johnson as he looked to be in the mood but received poor service. Accies were able to mark him out of the game after half time and were happy and indeed able to deploy two men to do this.

 

The referee was weak and inconsistent and most of the ground knew a red card was coming to us at some point. The TV evidence on the penalty is inconclusive but it was galling to see Crawford being on the park to take it and score - that was the big disappointment for me. Both he and Imrie ought to have been given 2nd yellow cards and the ref's failure to do this influenced the outcome of the game.

 

This was always going to be the hardest game in our run of 3 home games.

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The ref was an absolute disgrace ..........never a free kick for their first goal,a minute of add on time the first half,Imre telling him to come to him for his booking,Crawford for pulling back Las,then penalty and red card

 

Crawford Allan was bad enough midweek but this joker Aitken took the biscut.......love to hear Howard Webb give his" opinions" on him!!!!!!

 

Ffs Collum is goin to the Euros !!!!!!!!

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Really frustrating end to the game. Purely by the MFC commentary the penalty sounded like a poor decision (one of many) but will wait and see the TV highlights.

 

Trying to keep it on a positive note, that's 5 unbeaten now, 15 points clear of Dundee Utd in 12th and we still have a couple of games in hand over those around us.

Just caught up on the highlights. I take back what I said about the penalty, it probably was the correct call.

 

However, what was the script with the 'foul' for accies first goal?! Hall didn't touch the ball or the man as far as I can tell and I don't think the tackle showed 'unnecessary force' (or whatever the term is).

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However, what was the script with the 'foul' for accies first goal?! Hall didn't touch the ball or the man as far as I can tell and I don't think the tackle showed 'unnecessary force' (or whatever the term is).

There was no "foul" it was right in line with me at the front of the main stand. Yeah he slides in but as you say he's neither unnecessarily forceful nor does he catch the man. In fact it's almost exactly the same challenge he put in in the lead up to Celtic's goal at Parkhead.

 

The difference there was the Celtic player simply played on and didn't take a heavy touch and knock the ball out of play. The Accies player knocks the ball out for a goal kick, stops, turns and moans at the ref who gives the foul.

 

Edit to add: a Dundee defender commits to a similar challenge on Grimshaw in the first half of that game and again the ref plays on without any suggestion of it possibly being a free kick.

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Most referees make mistakes but have some idea what a foul is, this guy just didn't have a clue. He punctuated the whole first half with fouls that weren't fouls. He commanded no respect. The minute he let Skippy argue with him three times without booking him he lost all control of the players. The yellow Grimshaw got was outrageous and to be fair the one Crawford did get was just a mistimed tackle rather than anything I really want to see players booked for but then there were two cast iron yellows he should have had after that. I always think if a referee has a line for a yellow card and plays it through ninety minutes whereever that line is is fair enough, but this guy just didn't have a clue. We got our share as well from him - as I said Skippy should have been booked for dissent in the first half, his second goal should have been disallowed for handball (I guess anyone in the POD, bottom end of the East or POD side of the Cooper would never have seen that) and probably booked again. But boy he was out of his depth. Again though we created lots of chances.

 

On Kmcalpin's point about the midfield dropping out the game - two of them had been booked and had no idea what constituted a card so all of a sudden they couldn't tackle as they would like.

 

However the improvement from November to December/January is light years and keep playing like that and we'll be more than fine.

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Thoroughly enjoyed the game. Good atmosphere helped by the larger attendance and ably assisted by the performance of the referee and Dougie Imrie.

 

Frustrating in the end not to take the 3 points we deserved but despite that we look like a team that can win games even when things go against us. The response 2nd half to going in behind at the break was excellent.

 

If we can keep this level of performance going we have a great shot at a top 6 finish.

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Agree with all the comments about the ref being useless.

First goal for them was never a foul.

Skippy should have been booked for dissent.

Never saw the hand ball for Skippy's second and its not clear in the TV footage, to me anyway.

Imrie should have been booked for the deliberate hand ball and had a second for taking the piss out of the ref.

Accies time wasting was a joke and he let them away with it time and time again as he also did with them stealing yards on every free kick and throw in.

1 min stoppage time in the first half with all their time wasting and when 3 goals had been scored does not add up at all.

Crawford should have walked for the second trip on Lasley as we were about to break with speed.

No doubt the ball hit Lasley's hand (he even admits it in the Sunday Mail) and its up high so it's a real tough one to argue that it was going to land in row Z of the South stand.

However Crawford should never have been there to hit the shot as he should have been down the tunnel.

 

Looking at some other aspects of the game that we should have influence over.

Moult off and Robinson on makes no sense to me at all, firstly Skippy who had a great game and ran his socks off was blowing out his arse at that point.

Robinson was totally and utterly shite, no control, could not hold the ball up as he could not get it under control and ran about like a headless chicken.

Would have been better to hook Skippy and put Clarkson on to hold the ball up as at least he has the physicality to do that.

And/Or hook Grimshaw or Lasley both on yellow cards and to me it was just a matter of time before one of them got a second yellow and stick Faddy on to hold the ball up.

 

So then McGhee hooks Johnson and sticks on Cadden leaving us no out ball as the clock ticks down and we get deeper and deeper.

 

The killer for me was when Tagliapietra gets injured and we get 5 mins added on and we lost momentum.

At that point we should have played Accies at their own game and slowed the whole thing down, wasted time and frustrated them.

Why when it went into to stoppage time did McGhee not stick on the 3rd sub to waste time?He could have stuck Laing or Faddy on in midfield as we were getting over run there at that point.

 

Some bad decisions by the manager near the end IMHO.

 

However the unbeaten run continues we scored 3 goals and could have had more.

 

We look like we could give someone a real tanking at some point and we are slowly climbing the table.

 

Feels much better than it did at this point last year.

Edited by Razz1074
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More importantly, if he didn't do it on purpose, it's not a penalty!

 

Trouble is, by protecting yourself with your hands, one could argue you're deliberately moving your hands into the path of the ball. So is that "on purpose" or not? The laws of the game only specify that "handling the ball deliberately" is an offence, they say no more than that.

 

Of course, common sense dictates that protecting yourself from a blooter in the face is normally a reflex rather than a deliberate action... but most refs aren't particularly known for their common sense.

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I would have wanted it down the other end for sure.

 

His arm was in an unatural position whether it was going at the net or not. I do not think, however he meant it. It's hard to chuck yourself at the ball with arms by your side.

never a pen the ref made a complete james hunt of it..was it hand to ball no, was it deliberate no, did it prevent a goal no the ball was heading for the top tier of the south stand..was it a booking no.

So what ever way you look at it it was never a pen it was a feckin disgrace of a decision from a disgrace of a referee. still having said that 4 mins into added time we should not be allowing teams to play the ball into the box stop the play midfield, somebody to take a booking for the team was required there.

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Yeah, it's a rule that's wording and application are entirely different.

 

Deliberate is probably the wrong word.

 

"Taking action, voluntarily or involuntarily which increases the chance of the ball striking your arm" is probably a closer description of the actual application.

 

You probably only see a couple a season that are completely deliberate. Like faddys save on the line for Scotland v Norway at hampden.

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According to FIFA it is deliberately, but I cannot see where the deliberately is defined.

FIFA Laws of the Game 2015-16

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

  • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
  • trips or attempts to trip an opponent
  • jumps at an opponent
  • charges an opponent
  • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
  • pushes an opponent
  • tackles an opponent

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:

  • holds an opponent
  • spits at an opponent
  • handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

A direct free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred (see Law 13 - Position of free kick).

Penalty kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play.

Read more at http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct#06Q1aymIEQeTlJ4g.99

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Who was the referee yesterday seemed to be some confusion my friend told me it was Craig Thompson but the guys next to us were convinced it was iggy something or over but the guy in front of me was shouting about thompson as well so anyone know

 

Because personally i think its hardly surprising if it was Thompson and crew by far the worst ref I've ever seen (so far)

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Who was the referee yesterday seemed to be some confusion my friend told me it was Craig Thompson but the guys next to us were convinced it was iggy something or over but the guy in front of me was shouting about thompson as well so anyone know

 

Because personally i think its hardly surprising if it was Thompson and crew by far the worst ref I've ever seen (so far)

It was Greg Aitken.

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Agree with all the comments about the ref being useless.

First goal for them was never a foul.

Skippy should have been booked for dissent.

Never saw the hand ball for Skippy's second and its not clear in the TV footage, to me anyway.

Imrie should have been booked for the deliberate hand ball and had a second for taking the piss out of the ref.

Accies time wasting was a joke and he let them away with it time and time again as he also did with them stealing yards on every free kick and throw in.

1 min stoppage time in the first half with all their time wasting and when 3 goals had been scored does not add up at all.

Crawford should have walked for the second trip on Lasley as we were about to break with speed.

No doubt the ball hit Lasley's hand (he even admits it in the Sunday Mail) and its up high so it's a real tough one to argue that it was going to land in row Z of the South stand.

However Crawford should never have been there to hit the shot as he should have been down the tunnel.

 

Looking at some other aspects of the game that we should have influence over.

Moult off and Robinson on makes no sense to me at all, firstly Skippy who had a great game and ran his socks off was blowing out his arse at that point.

Robinson was totally and utterly shite, no control, could not hold the ball up as he could not get it under control and ran about like a headless chicken.

Would have been better to hook Skippy and put Clarkson on to hold the ball up as at least he has the physicality to do that.

And/Or hook Grimshaw or Lasley both on yellow cards and to me it was just a matter of time before one of them got a second yellow and stick Faddy on to hold the ball up.

 

So then McGhee hooks Johnson and sticks on Cadden leaving us no out ball as the clock ticks down and we get deeper and deeper.

 

The killer for me was when Tagliapietra gets injured and we get 5 mins added on and we lost momentum.

At that point we should have played Accies at their own game and slowed the whole thing down, wasted time and frustrated them.

Why when it went into to stoppage time did McGhee not stick on the 3rd sub to waste time?He could have stuck Laing or Faddy on in midfield as we were getting over run there at that point.

 

Some bad decisions by the manager near the end IMHO.

 

However the unbeaten run continues we scored 3 goals and could have had more.

 

We look like we could give someone a real tanking at some point and we are slowly climbing the table.

 

Feels much better than it did at this point last year.

Would agree with all of that.

 

The substitutions in particular were awful. Robinson when you have Faddy or Clarkson was criminal!! Would like to hear McGhees reasoning behind that.

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No complaints with the penalty. Hard to tell which direction the ball is going in from the TV but I'd be shouting for it if that happened at oor end.

 

We should have done more to see the game out. As a few pointed out, the substitutions did nothing to help the cause.

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Theo Robinson is crap. Clarky should've been brought on. Probably one of the worst refereeing performances i've seen in a while too, his linesmen were awfull and tried to ruin what was a cracking game. How Crawford wasn't sent off is a mystery and to give a free kick when no contact is made leading up to their 1st goal is frankly appalling.

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How Crawford wasn't sent off is a mystery and to give a free kick when no contact is made leading up to their 1st goal is frankly appalling.

 

Not saying it appeared to be the case here, but there doesn't have to be contact for it to be a free kick. "Attempting to kick or trip an opponent" is a foul whether you hit the guy or not.

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Just watched TV highlights on BBC. Two observations:

 

* No evidence of a handball by Skippy at his second goal. Camera angle isn't perfect but nothing obvious.

* Technically a penalty but a very soft one. Given that the ball hit Las's arm at point blank range there was nothing he could do about it. Probably the same as Stephen McManus's red card penalty against Aberdeen. The conclusion though is now that every ball in the box that hits a defender on the hand or arm, that isn't by his side is a penalty. We had a similar claim last Wednesday when Marvin's attempted cross struck a defender's outstretched arm in the box - no penalty. From now on our players should be instructed to claim vehemently, and in numbers, every time a ball strikes an opponent's arm or hand in the box.

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