Jump to content

Yabba's Turd

St Johnstone V Motherwell Sat 20 Feb 15:00

Recommended Posts

Just read McGhee's comments. Hope that was only for public consumption and that in the dressing room he told the team they were utter shite and offered nearly no attacking threat, and this 90 minute capitulation lark has gone beyond a joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that we were only offside once, when Ainsworth came on. It fairly breaks up the play if you are the wrong side of the defender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes you only have to see a poster's name to know what's coming...

Doesn't help when every 4th post for 3 pages is a one liner from them either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, actually the remark was aimed at the Stevie Hammell Fan Club member above, whose eagerness in apportioning blame in Hammell's direction, deserved or otherwise, is becoming even more regular than shipping 90th minute goals.

I don't know if you were able to make today's game. My post was not principally about Hammy and his performance notwithstanding his culpability at the 2nd goal. It was what McGhee tried to achieve with the substitution and the resultant change in our set up that cost us again dearly. Whether he brought on Hammy or Law it would have been the same difference. It failed miserably. Would you disagree with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Judging by the highlights package the game was utter dross. Fine corner from Faddy well put away by Moult for the goal mind you.

 

Our keeper though, that's two ridiculously poor goals he has conceded. He makes some good saves in most games and he's young but I'm yet to be convinced. Just seems to lack a wee bit of awareness or agility at times and it's costing us points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, actually the remark was aimed at the Stevie Hammell Fan Club member above, whose eagerness in apportioning blame in Hammell's direction, deserved or otherwise, is becoming even more regular than shipping 90th minute goals.

I don't think Traveller was overly criticising Stevie Hammell here Andy. I took it that he was criticising Mark McGhee's tactics and team selection. I had assumed that if he was going to bring on one full back it would have been Josh Law, given that Saints were tearing us apart down our right hand side. However I think that he should have brought on 2 full backs and not one. For the record Stevie Hammell didn't play well when he came on but he was no better nor worse than the rest, although he didn't look clever at the second goal.

 

I also think that too many players in midfield are being played out of position. Pearson is being deployed in too deep a role and I'm far from convinced that Chris Cadden is a winger - more a right sided midfielder.

 

I have no axe to grind with Mark McGhee and was quite happy when he was brought back but some of his tactical decisions, like today's, simply beggar belief. It became obvious after say the first 30 minutes, that the line up was completely wrong. All that said, I wasn't expecting to get much today - our real test comes next Saturday. No excuses for less than 3 points then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The manager went for a draw from the 46 minute.He thinks he is a tactical genius but really just over thinks everything.Pearson should have been dropped from the squad

I agree about MMcG overthinking tactics but Pearo was no worse than the rest of the midfield today. They were all very poor. That said it would be nice to see Cadden and Pearson playing in roles to which they are more suited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder how we would have fared had Skippy not got injured in the warm up

It would not have made a jot of a difference Haggis. Service to him would have been just as dire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Traveller was overly criticising Stevie Hammell here Andy. I took it that he was criticising Mark McGhee's tactics and team selection. I had assumed that if he was going to bring on one full back it would have been Josh Law, given that Saints were tearing us apart down our right hand side. However I think that he should have brought on 2 full backs and not one. For the record Stevie Hammell didn't play well when he came on but he was no better nor worse than the rest, although he didn't look clever at the second goal.

 

 

A couple of things - I don't think they 'tore us apart' down our right hand side. They looked more likely there than the other side but to be completely honest I think they were no better than us. Part of me wonders how much a part the pitch played because both us and them put on a much better spectacle at Fir Park.

 

On the subs, he couldn't make two changes at half time when he knows Fletcher hasn't paid for months and would never last ninety minutes - he does that and he gives himself nowhere to go if someone gets injured and again looking at how rutted the pitch is, you wouldn't have been surprised if someone got hurt.

 

 

As it happened I think Laing did better at right back than he did at centre half.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im confused by the reports on here. I thought we only lose and our midfield turns to shite when the Amazing Las is missing? We are in a dog fight and does anyone,even the happiest of clappers,see us having the organization and balls to fight our way out of it? Jesus,weve started about 18 different players and lined up in 5-6 different formations in the last 5 games! How can anyone be surprised were shipping late soft goals with that going on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im confused by the reports on here. I thought we only lose and our midfield turns to shite when the Amazing Las is missing? We are in a dog fight and does anyone,even the happiest of clappers,see us having the organization and balls to fight our way out of it? Jesus,weve started about 18 different players and lined up in 5-6 different formations in the last 5 games! How can anyone be surprised were shipping late soft goals with that going on?

McGhee doesn't have a clue. There's no progression of any note in our play since he took over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if you were able to make today's game. My post was not principally about Hammy and his performance notwithstanding his culpability at the 2nd goal.

Well your post, particularly when taken in the context of numerous previous posts about Hammell, give the impression of inferring something quite different then.

 

Your points over an extended period about the merits of Stevie Hammell's inclusion in the team are certainly open to debate yet are often written with a frequency and tone that suggests you have something of an irrational dislike or agenda with him. And the more I see you attribute blame to him the less inclined I am take your criticism as valid and think of it as more of someone who will use any ammunition they can to justify a view.

 

You couldn't even let the win over Dundee Utd pass during the week without a wee cloaked remark about his arrival in the 88th minute could you?

 

So yes, when I see your name pop up my first thought rightly or wrongly is that there's a fair chance Stevie Hammell is going to be referred to at some point and you're not likely to be overly complimentary.

 

I don't think Traveller was overly criticising Stevie Hammell here Andy.

See above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the highlights Laing turns his back on the ball same as Law did at Partick and WTF was Stevie Hamell doing at the free kick. Shite defending and basic basic stuff. Think McGhee was fighting with one hand behind his back from the start with Skippy injury. Can only pray he is back next week and maybe a 442 again with god knows who at right back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McGhee doesn't have a clue. There's no progression of any note in our play since he took over.

I'd say there was - up until Tynecastle.

 

There were some experiments if you want to call them that against Celtic in his first game and away to Ross County for example that just didn't come off but there was an immediate progression through the structure and organisation that he'd put in place that enabled us to go to places like Pittodrie, Rugby Park and Celtic Park and put in very disciplined displays whilst still having something of an attacking threat.

 

In matches against the likes of Dundee, St Johnstone and Cove at home we were slowly nudging towards the McGhee sides of old that had the cigars and brandy ready in the dressing room at half-time because the points were in the bag because the opposition had been taken care in the first half.

 

But Tynecastle, and the departure of Grimshaw who it seems brought the all important balance the team needs to function at its best, has spooked us totally. Any air of belief and invincibility that had been building was completely blown away in the capital and its little surprise that we've shown such mental frailty in the aftermath of that game.

 

That's not to say that confidence and belief cannot be rebuilt and those results of December returned to, but when obliterated in such a fashion and then added to by so many goals conceded at the death of games there is a huge task for McGhee and his coaching staff to get the team back to that point.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't think they 'tore us apart' down our right hand side. They looked more likely there than the other side but to be completely honest I think they were no better than us.

We'll agree to differ on that Tweed. In the first half, as I said earlier A St Johnstone player was able to get into the right hand side of our box within close range of Ripley with no defender near. It happens once and you think "maybe a one off". It happens twice and you start to think what to do about it. It happens a third time and you know something is going badly wrong. Not only did it happen three times yesterday in the first 45 it happened a fourth time and they scored from it.

 

In general they were no more skillful than us but were more determined, looked fitter and faster, and better organised - at one point I wondered if they had 20 players on the pitch - they were here there and everywhere harrying us, chasing us and closing us down. On not a few occasions they had 3 players marking Johnson and Cadden.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'd say there was - up until Tynecastle.

 

There were some experiments if you want to call them that against Celtic in his first game and away to Ross County for example that just didn't come off but there was an immediate progression through the structure and organisation that he'd put in place that enabled us to go to places like Pittodrie, Rugby Park and Celtic Park and put in very disciplined displays whilst still having something of an attacking threat.

 

In matches against the likes of Dundee, St Johnstone and Cove at home we were slowly nudging towards the McGhee sides of old that had the cigars and brandy ready in the dressing room at half-time because the points were in the bag because the opposition had been taken care in the first half.

 

But Tynecastle, and the departure of Grimshaw who it seems brought the all important balance the team needs to function at its best, has spooked us totally. Any air of belief and invincibility that had been building was completely blown away in the capital and its little surprise that we've shown such mental frailty in the aftermath of that game.

 

That's not to say that confidence and belief cannot be rebuilt and those results of December returned to, but when obliterated in such a fashion and then added to by so many goals conceded at the death of games there is a huge task for McGhee and his coaching staff to get the team back to that point.

I'd agree with you that Tynecastle was the turning point. Did the ridiculous formation/line up and subsequent mauling have the players question the managers capabilities? It certainly had every fan that day scratching their heads!

 

However, heavy defeats happen, and it's up to players and management to respond to such set backs and get back on the saddle. Can every last minute goal since be attributed to Tynecastle? I'm not sure. Accies got beat 8-1 by Celtic and came out and got a decent point v Hearts. We got beat 6-0 by Hearts and responded by getting beat 2-1 by Ross County!!

 

Has the loss of Grimshaw really been so pivotal? A young guy that had barely played outside development games and only recently came onto a bit of a game?!

 

The only player we signed in the window looks awful at worst and suspect at best and we, after umpteen games this year are creating next to no chances per game, have several players continually under performing yet still playing and have completely counter productive substitutions and formation changes being made.

 

In the games we have conceded late goals we have been, first half at Dens aside, woeful in the previous 90 minutes, so for me there is no progression in our play in 2016 other than for players and manager to find the cruelest of ways to drop points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These last-minute goals are damaging and incredibly frustrating but they would not be such a problem if we scored more goals. One reason we don't is that we are not very creative: we can't risk playing both Johnson and Ainsworth in the same team because that leaves us short in midfield and McFadden is in his mid-thirties (although he has assists in his last two games). Where is the creativity from central midfield? Oh for a Jackson Irvine. We're just not getting the best out of Moult and McDonald at the moment.

 

What concerns me more is that teams like ITC, Ross County, St Johnstone seem much better organised and close teams down much better than we do: we are poor without the ball and bring pressure upon ourselves. This is surely a tactics/coaching issue but it's one which we seem unable to address.

 

Also: when did we last score direct from a free-kick? Why are we like headless chickens at shies? These are long-standing weaknesses we seem incapable of dealing with but seem pretty basic.

 

Which leads me to the question which often passes through my mind when watching us: what coaching is going on at the club through the week?

 

Our next three games are incredibly important but there is a worrying lack of spirit about the team just now, as well as organisation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game was pure shite...I didn't think there was much between the two teams, similar to much of what I have witnessed this season to be fair. Losing another late goal though is a disgrace, whether Scobbie should have been sent off or not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I walked out at the goal...I can understand why the manager sat down in his dugout, what the fuck do you suggest that he does at that precise moment?

 

McGhee never lost Scobbie for the goal...one of our players did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What concerns me more is that teams like ITC, Ross County, St Johnstone seem much better organised and close teams down much better than we do: we are poor without the ball and bring pressure upon ourselves. This is surely a tactics/coaching issue but it's one which we seem unable to address.

 

You've hit the nail on the head. This is our single biggest weakness as a team. Its more than just a coaching issue though. Its down to the character, physique, fitness and pace of the players. The teams that you cite are not great footballing sides, but they are in the main fit, compete and make few mistakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

Twitter @MotherwellFC

×