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Yabba's Turd

Scottish Premiership Motherwell V Celtic Sat 3 Dec 12:15

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I have to be honest, I just cannot agree with all of the negative posts and allegations of capitulation and surrender.............how we'd be put to the sword by a Celtic team who inevitably would have much more in the tank than a high pressing Motherwell.

I agree that we don't want to overdo the negativity but there were still some very worrying aspects to our performance. If we want to improve they have to be examined (by the management) however painful that might be. Yes, Celtic changed their formation and upped their game in the second half and I get that. But what I don't get is why Celtic would inevitably have more in their tank than us in the second half. In the first half, despite us playing well Celtic had far more possession than us and did far more attacking. They did far more running as a team. So, I just don't get it. The only plausible explanation I can think of is that folk accept Celtic are a far fitter team than us and/or their players are younger. Given that, can we assume that we have work to do on the fitness front and/or some players are simply too old.

 

If we had deployed the same tactics in the second half but simply lost to a better side than I could accept that. If we cast our minds back to the Partick game, which we won of course, the game was in some ways similar. We had a good first half but then totally disappeared in the second just like yesterday. No, there's more to it than just accepting that Celtic would have more in the tank. They are, by far, the most expensive and best team in the league and its no disgrace to have lost to them but the manner in which we did so was concerning. To go 2 goals up and then simply disappear gives cause for concern. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a team to compete, although not necessarily be better than the opposition, for 90 minutes.

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Not having that, he was trying to get us into a position to try and win the game. The bit of skill he was trying just didn't come off and I'll never bring down a player that tries to do that. The goal was more about the defence giving Rogic acres of space at the edge of the box to ping one in.

 

So easy for people to blame Ainsworth constantly on here, the guys a hero when he makes it 3-2 but absolute villain when we lose, ridiculous

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I agree that we don't want to overdo the negativity but there were still some very worrying aspects to our performance. If we want to improve they have to be examined (by the management) however painful that might be. Yes, Celtic changed their formation and upped their game in the second half and I get that. But what I don't get is why Celtic would inevitably have more in their tank than us in the second half. In the first half, despite us playing well Celtic had far more possession than us and did far more attacking. They did far more running as a team. So, I just don't get it. The only plausible explanation I can think of is that folk accept Celtic are a far fitter team than us and/or their players are younger. Given that, can we assume that we have work to do on the fitness front and/or some players are simply too old.

 

If we had deployed the same tactics in the second half but simply lost to a better side than I could accept that. If we cast our minds back to the Partick game, which we won of course, the game was in some ways similar. We had a good first half but then totally disappeared in the second just like yesterday. No, there's more to it than just accepting that Celtic would have more in the tank. They are, by far, the most expensive and best team in the league and its no disgrace to have lost to them but the manner in which we did so was concerning. To go 2 goals up and then simply disappear gives cause for concern. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a team to compete, although not necessarily be better than the opposition, for 90 minutes.

It's a hell of a lot easier to pass and move on rather than close down the ball and try covering players so think our players did more running than the Celtic players which in turn leaves them more tired as the game goes on. Yes there were individual errors but this also could be due to mental fatigue.

 

Personally I'm proud of the effort out team showed.

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Not having that, he was trying to get us into a position to try and win the game. The bit of skill he was trying just didn't come off and I'll never bring down a player that tries to do that. The goal was more about the defence giving Rogic acres of space at the edge of the box to ping one in.

 

 

Agreed. Ainsworth is a bit of a scapegoat here - you could see what he was trying to do. We give opposing teams far too much space at the edge of our box week in week out - . probably our biggest single weakness as a team.

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Game of two halves

 

First 45 we had them rattled and made them change it to cope with us. Pressed them and exploited a poor Toure twice.

 

We then didn't adapt quickly enough to the change to a back 3 and the width they started to employ. Early goal left us rattled and we really then had to deal with a confident and skillful Celtic. That said we made some silly decisions defending and paid the price. Central midfield didn't protect enough in the second 45 and they just got too much space and time to knock it about.

 

All in though I am proud to see the Motherwell team that can play like that first 45 with that intensity. If we can replicate that we will have the beating of a lot of our peers in the league.

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I agree that we don't want to overdo the negativity but there were still some very worrying aspects to our performance. If we want to improve they have to be examined (by the management) however painful that might be. Yes, Celtic changed their formation and upped their game in the second half and I get that. But what I don't get is why Celtic would inevitably have more in their tank than us in the second half. In the first half, despite us playing well Celtic had far more possession than us and did far more attacking. They did far more running as a team. So, I just don't get it. The only plausible explanation I can think of is that folk accept Celtic are a far fitter team than us and/or their players are younger. Given that, can we assume that we have work to do on the fitness front and/or some players are simply too old.

 

If we had deployed the same tactics in the second half but simply lost to a better side than I could accept that. If we cast our minds back to the Partick game, which we won of course, the game was in some ways similar. We had a good first half but then totally disappeared in the second just like yesterday. No, there's more to it than just accepting that Celtic would have more in the tank. They are, by far, the most expensive and best team in the league and its no disgrace to have lost to them but the manner in which we did so was concerning. To go 2 goals up and then simply disappear gives cause for concern. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a team to compete, although not necessarily be better than the opposition, for 90 minutes.

I agree with much you say on here by with the greatest of respect, am I right to assume that you've never played the game at any decent level?

 

As implied above, one of the primary objectives to good ball retention is to make the ball do the work, lure and tire the opposition and exploit the gaps left by those chasing the ball. Rangers did it throughout the Souness era and Pep Guardiola has made a career out of it. To challenge this, Motherwell adopted a high pressing game (Like the current spurs side do every week). Against a possession side, it can pay dividends. Our second goal is a perfect example of that. But anyone who's tried to play that way will tell you, it's really tiring and incredibly difficult to do for 90 minutes.

 

The Chelsea v Man City game is a good example of the point I'm making. City had lots of possession and missed chances, Chelsea harassed them throughout and scored their chances.

 

The difference isn't physical fitness, its tactics and ability and Celtic had far more ability in the tank. We lost the game because we lost the midfield battle.

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If we cast our minds back to the Partick game, which we won of course, the game was in some ways similar. We had a good first half but then totally disappeared in the second just like yesterday. No, there's more to it than just accepting that Celtic would have more in the tank. They are, by far, the most expensive and best team in the league and its no disgrace to have lost to them but the manner in which we did so was concerning. To go 2 goals up and then simply disappear gives cause for concern. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a team to compete, although not necessarily be better than the opposition, for 90 minutes.

 

Every match this season where we have been on top in the first half has been the same. Add Hamilton and Ross Cty to the Partick example. We can get away with it against lesser teams but not Celtic. against the three teams mentioned we could have been punished. Now I can understand this happening in the first 5 or 10 minutes of the second half as we settle again but it seems to be to a plan for all of the second half. Whose? Management or Players. It happens to often to be coincidence.

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I agree with much you say on here by with the greatest of respect, am I right to assume that you've never played the game at any decent level?

 

As implied above, one of the primary objectives to good ball retention is to make the ball do the work, lure and tire the opposition and exploit the gaps left by those chasing the ball. Rangers did it throughout the Souness era and Pep Guardiola has made a career out of it. To challenge this, Motherwell adopted a high pressing game (Like the current spurs side do every week). Against a possession side, it can pay dividends. Our second goal is a perfect example of that. But anyone who's tried to play that way will tell you, it's really tiring and incredibly difficult to do for 90 minutes.

 

The Chelsea v Man City game is a good example of the point I'm making. City had lots of possession and missed chances, Chelsea harassed them throughout and scored their chances.

 

The difference isn't physical fitness, its tactics and ability and Celtic had far more ability in the tank. We lost the game because we lost the midfield battle.

 

Correct. I watched the game back yesterday afternoon and Neil McCann that Celtic had 75% possession in both halfs. So even in the first half when we had all the best chances, we still spent about 33 minutes chasing the ball (I know it would be out of play some of the time so that's too high) but even so it shows we spent a lot of energy running. Whilst we were doing that Celtic spent a ridiculous amount of time standing still and passing it sideways. So although we amassed a lead they were already on their way to winning the game by tiring us out.

 

In the second half Celtic changed their tactics (as you would have expected) and upped their intensity because they were hellish pedestrian in the first half. Easy to blame people for the first goal but to be fair it also came from a lovely slick one touch move, and the drag back by McGregor to open up the space was excellent.

 

We defended OK for the next wee bit but we just couldn't get out and Celtic upped and upped their game. Goals 2 and 3 were definitely the worst from our perspective. Hammell completely lost Roberts and I also think Tait, Ainsworth et al hadn't quite worked out who should be where after the subby meaning the deep cross went in unchallenged. And the third one, the midfield were sleeping at the centre and Heneghan made a total hash of it. However it's hard to be too critical of him because he had a super game.

 

Ainsworth has to take some of the blame for the fourth one. I get he was trying to be offensive but it really wasn't the percentage thing to do - a bit like McDonald conceding the ball in injury time at Ibrox. But the real problem was that the energy had gone, we were struggling to get out and really the pressure told. Very unusual for Rogic to play the full game which probably shows how worried they were.

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My first game of the season, confirmed what I thought about the appalling decision to give contracts to veteran players unfit for the premier league.

 

On the bright side, what a game - rollercoaster. Proud to be a Well fan.

 

ps - which one of you nutters was fighting in the Railway Tavern last night?

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Not having that, he was trying to get us into a position to try and win the game. The bit of skill he was trying just didn't come off and I'll never bring down a player that tries to do that. The goal was more about the defence giving Rogic acres of space at the edge of the box to ping one in.

 

So easy for people to blame Ainsworth constantly on here, the guys a hero when he makes it 3-2 but absolute villain when we lose, ridiculous

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If we play like we did in the first half yesterday we will be picking up a lot more points between now and the end of the season.

 

What a finish for Moult's first, could have had that game killed off by half time.

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My thing against Ainsworth yesterday was that being one of the freshest players, he failed to chase and disrupt the Celtic team enough.

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Don't really see why we want pesto back cos same will happen to him he is aging and won't be the same, don't know why we always go back, some of it has paid off with players but it's got to change and bring in some new faces

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Don't really see why we want pesto back

Would make for a tasty midfield.

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I agree with much you say on here by with the greatest of respect, am I right to assume that you've never played the game at any decent level?

 

As implied above, one of the primary objectives to good ball retention is to make the ball do the work, lure and tire the opposition and exploit the gaps left by those chasing the ball. Rangers did it throughout the Souness era and Pep Guardiola has made a career out of it. To challenge this, Motherwell adopted a high pressing game (Like the current spurs side do every week). Against a possession side, it can pay dividends. Our second goal is a perfect example of that. But anyone who's tried to play that way will tell you, it's really tiring and incredibly difficult to do for 90 minutes.

 

The Chelsea v Man City game is a good example of the point I'm making. City had lots of possession and missed chances, Chelsea harassed them throughout and scored their chances.

 

The difference isn't physical fitness, its tactics and ability and Celtic had far more ability in the tank. We lost the game because we lost the midfield battle.

You're absolutely right - amateur level only. A good post and your assessment does seem very credible and I don't doubt its reasonably accurate. I don't think it explains everything but thats asking a lot. Yes, we did lose the midfield battle and that was critical. However I still think we defended too deeply and I think that our midfield and defenders should have been fit enough and competitive enough to defend a few yards further upfield. We really are like a tortoise withdrawing into its shell when under pressure. I don't doubt also that tactics played a part.

 

In terms of this thread there have been some very good and thought provoking posts in the last few hours. It proves that this site can have some well reasoned and respectful debate.

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Armstrong did have an excellent game but did you hear him post match? "We conceded cheap goals"...maybe he just entered cliche corner but bit of an insulting thing to say.

 

Rodgers also didn't give us a single shred of credit in the post match I seen on Sky.

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Armstrong is right, big Kolo was embarassing for the first 2 goals.

 

Haven't heard Rodgers interview but the biggest compliment he could pay Motherwell was changing his team after half an hour. I expect Cadden to be very much on Celtc's radar from now on.

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Armstrong did have an excellent game but did you hear him post match? "We conceded cheap goals"...maybe he just entered cliche corner but bit of an insulting thing to say.

 

Rodgers also didn't give us a single shred of credit in the post match I seen on Sky.

Rodgers was pretty complementary on Sportsound after the match. Said Moult, McDonald, McManus played well, and Motherwell deserved credit for making it such a tough match. Or words to that effect anyway.

 

Like some others, I certainly don't blame Ainsworth for losing the ball to Toure. He was just about at the half way line, and had his touch come off he would have been through with a clear run at the Celtic goal. The midfield should have closed up behind him to cover the hole, but by that point I think tiredness had firmly taken hold.

 

Still smarting about the result, but the more I think about it, very pleased with the performance.

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I didn't see Sportscene but fair play if he did say that.

 

If eg Jamie Vardy (who I actually think Moult is similar to in style) had scored those goals the media would be purring over them for days.

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I go along with that. I seem to recall someone on here saying that Stevie Hammell, when offered vastly reduced terms was being touted to lower Premiership clubs but none took the bait.

That would've been me...he was definitely offered to Partick, who decided he wasn't what they were looking for

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Would not be surprised if Griffiths goes in January then we might see Moult at Celtic

 

Absolute sniffer, best finisher at FP since the Cobra

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That would've been me...he was definitely offered to Partick, who decided he wasn't what they were looking for

But we,in our wisdom, managed to rustle up a 2 year deal for him.

 

Bumped

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I'm pretty sure that City and Pool fans all over the world, when seeing that tackle Toure did on Ainsworth, thought "Where the f*ck did he learn to do that!'

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Armstrong did have an excellent game but did you hear him post match? "We conceded cheap goals"...maybe he just entered cliche corner but bit of an insulting thing to say.

 

Rodgers also didn't give us a single shred of credit in the post match I seen on Sky.

 

I think all seven goals were pretty soft defensively if you look at them on their own. Likewise I think all seven had a lot of positive things about their attacking creativity. Stuart Armstrong is generally speaking for the benefit of the Celtic fans and I'd fully expect him to speak on their perspective, the same was I would expect whatever player we bundled out for post-match to speak from ours.

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