Dezz Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yes. From memory its zoned for green space / recreational uses in the Local Plan. Normally speaking any planning application that contradicts that would be turned down. However, this could be overturned by the Council's Planning Committee when a planning application was submitted if there were good reasons for doing so. * Land for housing is needed * What other recreational purpose could Fir Park serve? * Approval would unlock further development in Ravenscraig * Approval would help a prominent local organisation and employer * Last but not least, rejection would not go down well with many local voters. I'll be very surprised if discussions haven't already taken place with the Planners, albeit years ago. At the very worst a representation for rezoning could be made to the Council when the Local Development Plan was being reviewed. Edit: by coincidence, a new Proposed Plan (a draft) will be out for consultation at the end of this month. The perfect time to submit representations on many planning issues!! Had a quick check this morning and you're right, Fir Park and the surrounding pitches are zoned as 'community facilities' in the current local plan. As you say, with consultation on the new LDP due soon there would be no harm in asking the question about the designation and potential alternative uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 7,000? Come on tae fuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yes, arguably their 10,000 seater could be reduced to 7000 for us It would probably still be half empty, except for a few games against Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Average crowd 3-3500? What's the point in a 14000 seater Because we should be ambitious, we should be looking to get the lapsed fans back, not locking them out because we're full. We also from time-to-time play in big matches that attract more than 7,000. It would have to be a 10,000-seater as a minimum for me....although I hope it never comes to pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 It would have to be a 10,000-seater as a minimum for me I agree we should aim for that. You never know we might just managed to attract some lapsed fans back if we start performing like we should. It also looks like Hibernian will be back soon and they have brought some big supports through in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izett Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 If you's give me a couple days I can make a mock up of a possible new design, similar to that of Aalesunds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Because we should be ambitious, we should be looking to get the lapsed fans back, not locking them out because we're full. We also from time-to-time play in big matches that attract more than 7,000. It would have to be a 10,000-seater as a minimum for me....although I hope it never comes to pass I agree we should aim for that. You never know we might just managed to attract some lapsed fans back if we start performing like we should. It also looks like Hibernian will be back soon and they have brought some big supports through in the past. Love the optimism but we've performed far better than we should in recent times and with the exception of some decent Rangers / Celtic crowds a few years back we have scraped past 10'000 once - vs Nancy. Look at other big games - First ever 'champions league' qualifier - 9035 Sealing 3rd place in 2008 vs Aberdeen - 8574 Sealing 3rd in 2011 vs St Johnstone - 4743 End of season 2013 games vs Celtic 8641 and 7503 (equally important games vs Hibs, Dundee and Dundee united saw crowds of 4 - 5k.) Race for 2nd vs St Johnstone 7201 (free kids tickets - 4482 the following week vs ICT). I would think 10'000 is the maximum we should be aiming for. I'd rather sit in a 60% full 8000 seater stand than a 60% empty 11'000 stand and I imagine more empty seats for the vast majority of home games is probably counter productive. I think if we are to grow the fanbase as you suggest, the stands need to have that buzz of busyness and we will only get that week in week out in a smaller stadium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgey Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 I agree we should aim for that. You never know we might just managed to attract some lapsed fans back if we start performing like we should. It also looks like Hibernian will be back soon and they have brought some big supports through in the past. If I may ask, given the stats provided above regarding crowds during a period of high league placement, how 'should' we be performing? Just being curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38682911 Spurs new £750m stadium with its own brewery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONeils40yarder Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Love the optimism but we've performed far better than we should in recent times and with the exception of some decent Rangers / Celtic crowds a few years back we have scraped past 10'000 once - vs Nancy. Look at other big games - First ever 'champions league' qualifier - 9035 Sealing 3rd place in 2008 vs Aberdeen - 8574 Sealing 3rd in 2011 vs St Johnstone - 4743 End of season 2013 games vs Celtic 8641 and 7503 (equally important games vs Hibs, Dundee and Dundee united saw crowds of 4 - 5k.) Race for 2nd vs St Johnstone 7201 (free kids tickets - 4482 the following week vs ICT). I would think 10'000 is the maximum we should be aiming for. I'd rather sit in a 60% full 8000 seater stand than a 60% empty 11'000 stand and I imagine more empty seats for the vast majority of home games is probably counter productive. I think if we are to grow the fanbase as you suggest, the stands need to have that buzz of busyness and we will only get that week in week out in a smaller stadium. The fear with what you suggest though is that we either build 4 small stands like St Mirren have, with no real plan of being able to increase the capacity or a 'half-finished' effort along the lines of Falkirk or Accies, with the promise of 'we'll build more stands at a later date'. By building a 7,000 seater stadium we are virtually giving up the ghost in my opinion, basically saying 'this is as good as it gets'. We've got to be ambitious (to a certain extent), we've got to get the local community behind the club by hook or by crook, make it appealing to support the football team. I fully understand that no one wants a white elephant, but when that big match does come along I'd rather we had 9035 people in through the gate than 7000 in and 2035 peering through holes in the tarpaulin on the unfinished side of the ground. Anyway, it doesnt look like it will be happening any time soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Take the top tier off the south stand and you're not far away from the sort of size which I think suits our needs (you could probably shave a few rows off the back of the main stand and the lower tier of the south as well). However that doesn't lend itself to a large away support. If we were ever to move to a stadium of around 8-9000 we'd need to get used to the idea ofssupporters moving for the old firm again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Let's have a long hard look at reality. Here's all the new site/new stadiums built by clubs in the top two divisions. New Douglas Park - Hamilton McDiarmid Park - St. Johnstone Cheaper Insurance Direct Stadium - Dumbarton The Falkirk Stadium - Falkirk St. Mirren Park - St. Mirren Does anyone honestly think that those stadiums are improvements on what they replaced? Does anyone think any of them generate atmosphere or have a sense of uniqueness about them? If you look at Aberdeen's plans for their new move it looks to me to be very bland and unambitious. Does anyone honestly think we would break the mold? It's all a fantasy. Like when you look through the paper and look at the £1 million houses. It's fun to imagine but it's not going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/job/ayr-united-football-club/ Don't know if they are still in the pipeline but these were Ayr Uniteds plans from a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daver Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Very impressive but I doubt it's still being considered. The bottom line is that anything different from the standard box stands in evidence at the grounds listed above is more expensive. Steel is relatively cheap. The costs jump up when you do anything different from the warehouse style cladding panels which is what actually makes a difference to how it looks. That Ayr stadium would have cost a fortune! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 That Ayr stadium would have cost a fortune! £45 Million apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Let's have a long hard look at reality. Here's all the new site/new stadiums built by clubs in the top two divisions. New Douglas Park - Hamilton McDiarmid Park - St. Johnstone Cheaper Insurance Direct Stadium - Dumbarton The Falkirk Stadium - Falkirk St. Mirren Park - St. Mirren Does anyone honestly think that those stadiums are improvements on what they replaced? Does anyone think any of them generate atmosphere or have a sense of uniqueness about them? If you look at Aberdeen's plans for their new move it looks to me to be very bland and unambitious. Does anyone honestly think we would break the mold? It's all a fantasy. Like when you look through the paper and look at the £1 million houses. It's fun to imagine but it's not going to happen. I dare say every single one of those projects starting out with grand ambitions of breaking the mould but when it came to the hard finances, the character, design and individuality was gradually costed out. So I agree, we probably wouldn't be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 The fear with what you suggest though is that we either build 4 small stands like St Mirren have, with no real plan of being able to increase the capacity or a 'half-finished' effort along the lines of Falkirk or Accies, with the promise of 'we'll build more stands at a later date'. By building a 7,000 seater stadium we are virtually giving up the ghost in my opinion, basically saying 'this is as good as it gets'. We've got to be ambitious (to a certain extent), we've got to get the local community behind the club by hook or by crook, make it appealing to support the football team. I fully understand that no one wants a white elephant, but when that big match does come along I'd rather we had 9035 people in through the gate than 7000 in and 2035 peering through holes in the tarpaulin on the unfinished side of the ground. Anyway, it doesnt look like it will be happening any time soon Couldn't agree more - any new stadium is a statement of ambition and status. 7000 would be disappointing to me and backwards thinking, but I think more than 10000 is beyond what we're ever likely to need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 The fear with what you suggest though is that we either build 4 small stands like St Mirren have, with no real plan of being able to increase the capacity or a 'half-finished' effort along the lines of Falkirk or Accies, with the promise of 'we'll build more stands at a later date'. By building a 7,000 seater stadium we are virtually giving up the ghost in my opinion, basically saying 'this is as good as it gets'. We've got to be ambitious (to a certain extent), we've got to get the local community behind the club by hook or by crook, make it appealing to support the football team. I fully understand that no one wants a white elephant, but when that big match does come along I'd rather we had 9035 people in through the gate than 7000 in and 2035 peering through holes in the tarpaulin on the unfinished side of the ground. Very good post O'Neil and I agree with it 100%. Daver also makes very pertinent points about the accommodation of away fans and costs. For me nothing less than 10,000 would be acceptable. Maybe something in the range 10,500-12,000. Its not just a numbers game though. The stadium would have to be capable of accommodating large away supports of the order of 5,000 fans as Daver says and that would need to be planned in. I don't like some of the characterless modern stadia but cost is a huge issue. Certainly I'd like to see corners filled in. I seem to recall build costs were about £1,000 per seat several years ago. We'd all like to see a top end stadium but costs would be very high indeed and the money would need to come from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Certainly I'd like to see corners filled in. I seem to recall build costs were about £1,000 per seat several years ago. We'd all like to see a top end stadium but costs would be very high indeed and the money would need to come from somewhere. I recall reading P&B with interest when St Mirren were in the discussions stage of their new ground and the amount of fans that had conceded it was going to be a bland Lego land identikit stadium but would be happy with at least 'corners filled in' was unbelievable. It seems it would at least make a new place more of an arena and hold am atmosphere than 4 identical soulless stands (or worse, 2 or 3 stands) And not every corner would have to be filled with rows and rows of seating, for a 9/10/11 thousand capacity stadium we wouldn't need to but at least the roof going right round creates an arena, ala Scarlets ground. It would make sense to have at least 1 corner filled to create a large 'away end' of one end stand and down one touchline to the half way line, that could accommodate the bigot brothers. One corner could be a bar/restaurant with pitch views, another could be the TV 'Box' etc... Corners, they're the future. St Mirren wanted them, got fuck all of them and look at the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 We could also have some healthy snacks in our Fruit Corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Our south stand is ideal for when the OF mutants come visiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't think St Mirren got much say in their ground. Tesco built it for them using their own construction contractors and would have done it as cheaply as is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregyScotland Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Falkirk have hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. They have an impressive main stand and two other stands which are close in and steep with capacity sitting at 8K. Once they build the fourth stand it will stick out as the best small new ground by a country mile, and not bankrupted the club like Airdrionians. Whilst the stands are pretty far apart, the gaps could/should be screened off like hibs have done at Easter Road. Fir Park is home, however the cost and what we are loosing out on income wise through lack of facilities is poor. If the club built a Falkirk style effort, the corners could be filled in with other facilities with pitchside views such as bars/restaurant/community trust facilities or even one of these 24/7 gym complexes which are springing up around the joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Falkirks main stand is nice, if they intend to finish the ground, it probably will be one of the best, with at least some character, but a 2-3 sided ground is truly horrendous!! Easter Road was a real disappointment, I thought the atmosphere would be great with the newest stand and corners closed off, but it had the atmosphere of a morgue, although perhaps hibs being utter pish was a factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 No idea if it's true or not, but were there not rumours Falkirk couldn't build a 4th stand because it was within the Grangemouth blast zone or something along those lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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