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creaser09

Scottish Premiership Motherwell V Dundee Sat 29April 15:00

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No problem with any style of football as long as it's effective. I go to Fir Park to hopefully see goals, if it was for silky fitba I'd stay at home with a skysports subscription.

 

 

I'm going to hope the reason we persevere with it is because Robinson thinks it's all the players are capable of. If we have the players to play better football but are restricted by limitations in Robinson then that's a far bigger problem.

 

To be fair, Moult, Bowman and McDonald have at some time or other shown they can bully bigger defenders so against the right opposition it could be very effective. Our biggest problem is that we persevere for 90 minutes when it's clear after 10 that the defender has the upper hand.

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To be fair to Robinson, we have scored 6 goals in our last 2 games, so the hoofball tactics aren't really the problem imo, its individual defensive mistakes and possibly a lack of organisation.

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oh well thats a ringing endorsement of a piss poor tactic.

im not endorsing anything. But you can only piss with the cock you're holding. The secret is just learn how to aim properly

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To be fair to Robinson, we have scored 6 goals in our last 2 games, so the hoofball tactics aren't really the problem imo, its individual defensive mistakes and possibly a lack of organisation.

 

We've failed to score in 6 out of 13 league matches since the winter break while keeping 1 clean sheet.

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He's tried to fit three forwards into the side on the back of two attacking wide players which again contrasts with the more cautious style that McGhee often set us up to play and many grumbled about.

 

He's been fairly quick to change things if it hasn't worked.

 

You make some good points Andy but I take issue with these two. Its ok playing 3 forwards and two wide men if you play them to their strengths and they're played as forwards and wide men. MacDonald is being played more as a midfielder (to compensate for lack of alternatives there I know) but its just not his game. He's too isolated from both Moult and Bowman. Moult and Bowman are being played too far apart and they're just not linking up. Moult is an out and out centre forward who can score goals, but yesterday and on too many previous occasions, he's playing behind the attack or out wide or trying to cross into the box. As with our defence, our attack seems disorganised and unco-ordinated. Playing 3 strikers/forwards sounds good, but they're not being played as strikers. Frear and Cadden are being played wide yes, but far too deep and are being asked to be overly defensive with little support and thats just not their game.

 

Has he been quick to change? I would say no. Yes, he did change things quickly at Kilmarnock but not since then. He's stuck doggedly to a system which just isn't working. Had it been a one off I'd have more sympathy for him but its now being deployed week and week out. Neil McCann seems to know more about our weaknesses than Stephen Robinson does. Surely we knew in advance that Dundee had a defence that was good in the air? If we didn't then there's something far wrong. By the 15 minute mark it was obvious that our long high balls weren't working. Ok we have to patient but by the 30th minute we were crying out for change. Still nothing. Dundee go a goal up and still nothing changes. Half time changes - no? We have to go 3-1 down before a change is made.

 

We've been making the same tactical errors week in week out now.

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We've been making them since game 1. There's been no progression at any point this season. Samson spilled a tame shot with 5 minutes to go in game 2 v St Johnstone as a taster of what's to come and error ridden ineptitude since then. Same shite every week in every week out. 2 successive managers have failed to address any of the glaringly obvious weaknesses that everyone can see. We're now in 11th spot and there's 4 games to go and it isn't going to change in those games.

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Has he been quick to change? I would say no. Yes, he did change things quickly at Kilmarnock but not since then.

 

I would say that's harsh. We were struggling at Firhill and he changed the formation - we saw a much improved second half performance although we didn't do enough to score. He changed the formation and really went for it at 2-2 against Inverness last time out as well.

 

I felt a bit sorry for him yesterday. I thought we played not too bad in the first half and went in behind purely due to a goalie error. So I thought starting the same way with a wee tweak was acceptable. What Cadden did to concede the set play and Heneghan did defending it was beyond comprehension and suddenly it was 0-2. He was ready to change then but Moult's goal unsurprisingly put a bit of doubt in his mind. Then the Heneghan standing off masterclass that was 1-3 happened and he changed it then but the third goal sucked the life out of us a bit.

 

But for all we huffed and puffed, their goalie made a worldy of a save from Frear and we had that header from Heneghan so with a bit of luck we could have still won that.

 

But the main point is the same. Cadden and Frear were pushed too deep by Dundee. Anyone who watched the Inverness game could have seen that would leave us struggling. I know we're struggling for a right back but I just wonder if starting with the 4-4-2 and playing Cadden at full back might just work which could just prevent Frear being pushed deep where he is so uncomfortable. Thing is yesterday, Frear's delivery was poor which has been his saving grace in other games.

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I thought we played not too bad in the first half and went in behind purely due to a goalie error. .

 

It wasn't purely down to the goalkeeping error. Dundee player had time and space in our half, no one near him or even trying to get close to him, to put a ball into a danger area.

 

Samson has his faults but all season we have defended terribly. Don't get close to anyone, completely disorganised, can't even play in straight lines. Who can forget that utter shambles a few weeks ago with Jules and Heneghan at Partick Thistle with the exasperated McHugh trying to get them to play in a basic defensive formation.

 

Truth is most goalkeepers at our level are good for 4, 5, 6 mistakes per season but our middle to back defending is responsible for far more of the 64 goals we've conceded.

 

Goal 1 was a mistake. Goal 2 and Goal 3 are absolute school team stuff.

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It wasn't purely down to the goalkeeping error. Dundee player had time and space in our half, no one near him or even trying to get close to him, to put a ball into a danger area.....Goal 1 was a mistake. Goal 2 and Goal 3 are absolute school team stuff.

Goal 1 wasn't just Samson's fault. Again shocking & disorganised defending. Who was meant to be marking Haber for example?

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Look, I've defended Samson more than most all season long. And I agree there were other mistakes in the build up to the goal but he had been asked to do absolutely nothing for 44.5 minutes, I don't think expecting him to gather a trundling ball is particularly ambitious and had he, the other errors in that passage of play would have been forgotten.

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I find myself agreeing with what's been said already. However, the one strand of hope I have is that no player looks like their hiding ( with the exception of Lionel, but that's nothing new ). We still try to be playing football and not panicking. Although time is running out and we need a win badly !

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I think what we're trying to say here is that we're shite but Samson is more shite. I don't expect there will be too many disagreements about that

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Another frustrating afternoon. I wouldn't have termed Saturday as a "must win", more a "must not lose" and we couldn't even manage that.

 

The formation definitely isn't working for me. Gaps in some places and overcrowding in others, there were times in the first half that I thought Frear was crowded out down the left hand side, with no room due to all three strikers lurking about and equally there were times in the second half when I thought our defence looked isolated....which is always going to be a drawback when your wing backs are guys who are generally attacking players.

 

I don't know if he feels the back three has been forced upon him. He must not rate Jules, or trust McMillan the way McGhee did. I know people have said that Crags mentioned that McMillan switches off in games but it does seem a bit bizarre how often we played him on his wrong side, for us to be reluctant to play him on his correct side. I do feel sympathy for him that although our defence has been rotten all season, he has been without its two most competent members in McManus and Tait. Heneghan is showing to be really poor in the last few weeks and I don't see him being that much of an improvement or Kennedy and Laing. He's not quite at Mark O'Brien level yet but he's trying his hardest.

 

I could understand us persisting with the error prone Samson if we had opted for a young, inexperienced keeper as backup but that highlights the poor recruitment we have had this season. Brill had played 70+ games for Inverness at this level, yet we couldn't get him fit to compete with Samson and although we've seen nothing of Griffiths, he did play nearly 30 times on loan at Cheltenham at the start of the season. His individual errors have really cost us a lot this season, albeit this being the first criminal one in a while.

 

Small crumb of comfort that Boyce is missing on Saturday, but the way we are setup just now I think Ade Akinbiyi could score against our defence. I can see us drawing on Saturday, but in truth I'll be bricking it going to New Douglas Park on anything other than three points.

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This is the first I've been able to get on here to comment on Saturdays 'display', with it being a long weekend and all that.

 

The way I see it, we currently have two major issues that is stopping us picking up points and its still the same weaknesses that I spoke about after the Thistle game at Firhill a few weeks back.

 

Firstly, we have an absolute, flapping, bombscare of a liability in goals...I've laid off him on here recently as I've noticed a few folk defending him, and thought that maybe I was going over the score, but after witnessing yet another fuck up from him on Saturday, there is no way I can take any defence of him seriously. Our goal was untroubled for the 40-odd minutes that we had Dundee pegged back in the 1st half, before Samson even had to get involved. He's asked to deal with a catch that I reckon I'd have coped with comfortably and he goes and drops it at the feet of their player. I can only describe it as a 'he shat himself' moment, he was anticipating some form of contact with the incoming player, adjusted his body in such a way that he fumbled the ball that he should have been protecting and gave Dundee a free goal. Now, our underperforming outfield players are far from blameless, over the course of this calamitous season, they can't possibly be, but in a match we are dominating and seemingly in control, they go and witness Samson shite the nest again...it knocked the stuffing out of us entirely. I can only surmise that the lad who has sat on our bench since Fatboy Brill left, is deemed to be even worse. I don't think he'll be dropped at this stage of the season anyway, so we'll really just need to soldier on and protect him as much as we possibly can...which brings me to my second point of where I think we are going wrong...

 

...this 3-4-3 formation that he is playing, is driving me insane. I went into it at great length after the defeat at Firhill, when their manager made a total dick out of us in the 1st 45mins, simply by playing with two wingers and a striker through the middle, and I haven't witnessed anything since then to suggest that a 3-4-3 formation is the way for us to go.

 

Some of our players aren't suited to it, Frear and Cadden are being asked to cover far too much ground all on their own and when up against a winger, they are pushed all the way back into a virtual back-5, Wighton for example was playing almost on the touchline in the 2nd half which left Cadden a conundrum of whether to pick him up and forget about attacking, or attacking himself and allow Heneghan to pick him up. As a result he was ineffective in an attacking sense and a defensive one, and the same thing happened with Frear. Heneghan, is a centre-back, not a particularly great one, but we are making him look even worse by having him continually dragged out his comfort zone, he looks a helluva lot comfier as part of a back4 than he does a back3. Scott McDonald is getting it in the neck again, as is Bowman, but again I'm more inclined to say that the formation is hanging them out to dry, we're expecting Skippy to filter back into midfield, track runners, play passes etc, when everyone and their dug, can see that he isn't particularly good at it, while Bowman is getting shoved much wider at times than he should be. I actually think there is a player in their, where Bowman is concerned, but as part of a front2, where he is holding the ball in, and linking up with the guys out wide. I've no problem with 3 at the back, if we have effective wing backs and a solid midfield 3, that are all capable in protecting the defence and supporting the attack but the current formation is seeing us being hemmed right into our own half at times, at other times its seeing us look incredibly open at the back, while at the other end we are creating very little at times...I'm thinking back to that 1st half on Saturday where we had so much possession and very little to show for it other than some ineffective crosses into the box.

 

For me, we have to grind out anything we can points wise, we have a keeper who is incredibly poor, but I think the formation we employ is every bit as culpable, and that is down to the manager, and that is something in his power to act upon. I've said it before, but please just get back to basics and a 4-4-2 formation, before its too late.

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I wasn't too surprised that we lost to Dundee our record since they got promoted has been poor against them. We have had at least 3 contentious decisions against them now in the last 2 years. Hopefully that's our bogey team out the way, I now fully expect 4 victories to finish the season, we are due some luck also hopefully a return of a fitter Pearson will help.

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just remembered, due to this

 

quite a few of our players falling on their arse throughout Dundee game

 

WTF? its our pitch and our choice of surface.

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Good to see Ben practicing a long diagonal punt, don't see enough of them at the weekends...

I miss McManus!

:lol:

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