Scottish Premiership Motherwell V Ross County Sat 6 May 15:00

[wunderwell]

Just adding to that game. Check the crowd, wow!

[Ya Bezzer!]

Here we go, Im a better supporter than you

 

This "supporter" is a former Claret and Amber club member,season ticket holder and have followed us through highs and lows including in Europe! I dont feel I am any better than any other Well fan but I feel I maybe do know what Im talking about ...... a bit. And I never said I wouldnt be back. I said its a mess and if we dont fix it I may not get the choice of attending Motherwell games in the future as if we get relegated, we may freefall and cease to exist

 

Read my post again! And read other posts I made last nite as well come to think of it. I suggested entirely where we can fix our issues.

 

We need to clear the decks and "reboot" essentially. Instead of spending the little cash we have on vanity projects with third party media companies and trendy Fan Engagement officers, ensure were doing the basics right! Give clear and concise advice at the ticket office,train the staff and make sure they all know EXACTLY what offers we run and when. Get coaches who can actually coach,not jobs for the boys! Guys like Faddy should not be taking training while the Manager sits at home drinking lattes in Brighton,he should be learning from said experienced coach,and others.

 

The football manager recruitment database is pish. Were shopping in areas that make the bargain basement wince. Paying transfer fees for Johnson then thinking "it worked once so why not?" and paying fees for the likes of Frear and Bowman is ludicrous. All the while we ignore our own leagues. When Dundee signed Scott Bain, Greg Stewart or Kane Hemmings,we were a more successful club with potentially more upside and able to pay at least what they were, why werent we in there? And there are dozens more who have come from the lower scottish leagues, Andy Robertson lived and played 6 or 7 miles from Fir Park, how did we not know about him or scout him? And anyway why have that database if we have a manager with overall control of transfers? That kind of stuff is for Scouts and Directors of Football to identify and sign targets,not to make a list of guys that are apparently suitable then ask permission from a glorified coach with an ego if we can sign them.

 

The players too. Too many old boys getting contracts they dont deserve and now managers tinkering with formations and players so much the guys,a lot of whom are genuinely limited or inexperienced footballers, have no fucking idea what they are doing. Plus we flood our squad with non league dross and then wonder why we have no passion? These guys are hoping to show up well enough against Rangers & Celtic and on TV that they get themselves a nice wage increase when tbeir contract with us ends. They dont give 2 fucks about Motherwell.

 

We arent dead yet, but our SPL existance is on life support, and we need something drastic to make sure our issues do not turn terminal

 

I agree and disagree with various parts of what you've said there but I particularly agree with the transfer strategy.

 

There's a young lad, 22 years old, at Airdrie called Andy Ryan who scored 23 goals in 32 league matches this season. Stand out in the division, almost single handedly put Airdrie in the promotion play offs.

 

Meanwhile we sign guys like Blyth and Bowman. I'm sticking my neck out here but I'm saying if Andy Ryan had been given the same opportunities as Blyth and Bowman have he might just have equaled their 1 goal tally.

 

Do we even look at these players? I don't know if he could cut it at this level but I see us signing players who I know can't.

[fizoxy]

This is what bothers me, why are we looking at the English non-league as the only place we can buy players and sell them on? Surely we could keep these nominal fees in the Scottish game and develop Scottish players to sell on just the same? Are the likes of moult and bowman cheaper? Or are English clubs just not interested in Scottish players?

[Big Wispy Flossy]

 

I agree and disagree with various parts of what you've said there but I particularly agree with the transfer strategy.

 

There's a young lad, 22 years old, at Airdrie called Andy Ryan who scored 23 goals in 32 league matches this season. Stand out in the division, almost single handedly put Airdrie in the promotion play offs.

 

Meanwhile we sign guys like Blyth and Bowman. I'm sticking my neck out here but I'm saying if Andy Ryan had been given the same opportunities as Blyth and Bowman have he might just have equaled their 1 goal tally.

 

Do we even look at these players? I don't know if he could cut it at this level but I see us signing players who I know can't.

Andy Ryan was released by Hamilton for, according to some of their supporters, for being shite and nowhere near premiership standard. I agree however with what your suggesting regarding lower league players and bettering bowman and Blyths paltry goal return

[capt_oats]

This is what bothers me, why are we looking at the English non-league as the only place we can buy players and sell them on? Surely we could keep these nominal fees in the Scottish game and develop Scottish players to sell on just the same? Are the likes of moult and bowman cheaper? Or are English clubs just not interested in Scottish players?

 

Genuine question, which Scottish players in the lower leagues are the equivalent or Moult, Johnson, Bowman & Frear and how much would they cost to bring in?

 

You look at El Bahktaoui (not Scottish I know), he tore up League One with Dunfermline but has struggled to make any sort of impact on an underperforming Dundee side. That's only one example I know, the flip of that would be Bain, Hemmings and Stewart or Robertson and Mackay-Steven but it's surely as much a gamble recruiting from the seaside leagues up here as it is from non-league in England.

 

I think our recruitment in certain areas has been poor, you only need to look at the performances & league position to confirm that, there's little about Blyth's signing that I understand, his agent couldn't even find 90 seconds worth of highlights for a YouTube package and Bowman, despite looking a decent signing on paper hasn't really worked out for whatever reason.

 

Looking around the Scottish cast-offs in the English leagues I don't think it's fair to say that English clubs aren't interested in Scottish players, there are plenty move down there though I suppose not necessarily for fees. Pawlett's signed a pre-contract with MK Dons IIRC, Robbie Muirhead's down there. Chris Maguire's at Oxford. Scougall and McNulty have just been released by Sheffield Utd.

[supermarv]

What manager would come in for 3/5 games and potentially damage their reputation?

Harry redknapp

[capt_oats]

We didn't miss out because they offered terms we couldn't match, they offered terms we didn't feel the players were worth. That's nowhere near the same thing.

 

I completely agree with the general point with a slight tweak. I don't think the transfer model is poor, I've come to believe that the method is completely sound, but it only works if the people using it can tell the difference between someone who is effective at the level they are spotted, and someone who has the tools to be effective at a higher level. I don't think we have that.

 

As an example take two conference strikers, one who has scored 25 goals and one who has scored 15 goals. I genuinely think we'd stop at that and be after the first guy...without actually looking into it any deeper. For the model to be a success we have to be overlooking the guy with 25 goals from inside the 6 yard box, in favour of the guy with 15 goals who has a much better reading of the game, a calmness and awareness and maybe a handful of assists.

 

I maybe completely 100% wrong, but for me to accept I am, someone would have some job trying to convince me what they saw and were looking for, by using Fletcher, Blyth, and Bowman as examples.

 

This is absolutely spot on IMO.

 

FWIW: Bowman was top scorer at Hereford who were managed at the time by Martin Foyle who's the guy that's been in charge of recruitment recently. I'd hazard a guess that could go some way to explaining his signing. He also had a fairly reasonable scoring record 23 in 54 at Gateshead, 18 in 44 at Torquay, 19 in 43 at Hereford the only poor return was 8 in 43 at York in League 2. In a way that feeds in quite well with your interpretation that we're only looking at numbers.

 

I'm onto plums explaining Fletcher and Blyth though as neither of them were even remotely prolific or come across as rounded players.

[steelboy]

FWIW: Bowman was top scorer at Hereford who were managed at the time by Martin Foyle who's the guy that's been in charge of recruitment recently.

 

That's worrying.

[Kmcalpin]

This is what bothers me, why are we looking at the English non-league as the only place we can buy players and sell them on? Surely we could keep these nominal fees in the Scottish game and develop Scottish players to sell on just the same? Are the likes of moult and bowman cheaper? Or are English clubs just not interested in Scottish players?

The problem is that there are far more players from which to choose in England than in Scotland...perhaps 10 times more. I doubt very much if there's a talented player in our lower divisions who isn't being monitored by every club in our top division. Andy Ryan was mentioned and I'm pretty sure every scout from Scots Premier League and Championship clubs will know all about him. The real trick is picking up a gem with potential from our lower divisions by identifying players who are talented but not playing well or not being used properly by their managers.

[capt_oats]

That's worrying.

Quite. Someone who's more informed than me on here might be able to clarify but was Moult not another one who was identified by Gary Owers who was the previous (short-lived) head of recruitment? (I may even have read that in Baraclough's interview in the Podcast 2 book).

 

I'm pretty sure I recall Robinson mentioning in a post-match interview that he (Robinson) recommended McHugh to the club. Which does beg the question; who's been responsible for identifying the players we've recruited who have been "successes"? (Johnson, Moult, Ripley, McHugh, Tait IMO)

[supermarv]

The problem is that there are far more players from which to choose in England than in Scotland...perhaps 10 times more. I doubt very much if there's a talented player in our lower divisions who isn't being monitored by every club in our top division. Andy Ryan was mentioned and I'm pretty sure every scout from Scots Premier League and Championship clubs will know all about him. The real trick is picking up a gem with potential from our lower divisions by identifying players who are talented but not playing well or not being used properly by their managers.

Thing is you'll have to pay some decent fees for them but the players from England we are bringing in are probably in the excess of 10k-50k, teams in Scotland will want a lot more than that

[1987motherwellfc]

Giles coke pass back against hibs was bad.

Edited May 8, 2017 by 1987motherwellfc

[kmmfc]

Stephen McManus in the cup at Ibrox this year was also bad.

[ropy]

Stephen McManus in the cup at Ibrox this year was also bad.

thats the one

[smiddy]

what about the chuckle brothers last year at dens park

[Joeboy]

Seen Mchugh , Blyth and Griffiths sat outside costa at 2 pm slurping on big fattening frappe drinks. Although none of them are to blame as much for the shite performances but if I was the manager I would have them all in working until six , n if I was part of the shittest Motherwell team in 30 year I wouldn't show my face down the town centre.

 

Here we go, it's Lee Erwin's chips all over again. I'm glad you were able to sit down and assess each players drinks and what potential harm they would have on our chances of staying up. Can you tell me why you would have the players in working till six everyday? I guess you may see time off for them as a reward and granted, their performances haven't merited "rewards" as such but how do you know their schedule?

 

A mate told me, via Andy Boles, that since Robinson came in that training has been ramped up intensity wise and let's be honest, we could have trained for 40 hours last week and Robinson still couldn't prevent Jules having that brainfart that he did.

 

Whether you like it or not, this stage of the season will see physical and mental fatigue in our players, so why would you risk burning them out by making them train every waking hour? It would be great if we had been doing triple sessions every day and turned up to play Accies on Saturday with them having effectively managed their players and us moving about the pitch at 0 MPH.

 

I guess when a team is playing badly, as we most definitely are, paying fans always take the self righteous angle that if they are paying their money whilst working full time hours, that the players should be going through gruelling schedules to "learn them". All sensibility goes out of the window. If we want to leave the players physically debilitated and psychologically demoralised for this relegation battle, so fans can be in their offices and building sites satisfied that the players are being worked hard, by all means have them into six.

 

Also, our players are real people, so what effect do you think it would have on them mentally that they can't go to Costa Coffee, yes Costa Coffee, not the world buffet thing at halfords or the megabar, without facing scrutiny not only for their whereabouts, but their order. You'd think their trip was akin to Gazza with the dentist chair.

 

Let's just treat them like prisoners and be done with it.

[capt_oats]

 

Here we go, it's Lee Erwin's chips all over again.

 

Ta, I'd been trying to remember who it was that had the chips since I read that post yesterday.

 

+1 on the rest of the post as well btw.

[steelboy]

Jacob Blyth, up the street, drinking a frappicino.

 

Definitely a sign of impending relegation.

[siebsbarmyarmy]

Jacob Blyth, up the street, drinking a frappicino.

 

Unless there was a selfie proof.... it didn't happen.

[Al B]

Seen Mchugh , Blyth and Griffiths sat outside costa at 2 pm slurping on big fattening frappe drinks.

 

I get that we're all frustrated, but Jesus Christ...in the sheer moron stakes, thats up there with stopping a ball as it runs out for a bye-kick.

[AlmostFrazzled]

Lee Lucas was there as well.

 

I'm not bashing him. I'm just letting you all know he still exists.

[Ya Bezzer!]

One time I saw Jens Lehmann buying plastic cutlery in the pound shop. Guess that was a sign we were staying up on a technicality.

[capt_oats]

One time I saw Jens Lehmann buying plastic cutlery in the pound shop. Guess that was a sign we were staying up on a technicality.

 

The former Arsenal and German international goalkeeper or possibly his fellow countryman Dirk?

[Ya Bezzer!]

 

The former Arsenal and German international goalkeeper or possibly his fellow countryman Dirk?

 

The sticking plasters over his ears should have given it away.

[Ya Bezzer!]

 

Genuine question, which Scottish players in the lower leagues are the equivalent or Moult, Johnson, Bowman & Frear and how much would they cost to bring in?

 

You look at El Bahktaoui (not Scottish I know), he tore up League One with Dunfermline but has struggled to make any sort of impact on an underperforming Dundee side. That's only one example I know, the flip of that would be Bain, Hemmings and Stewart or Robertson and Mackay-Steven but it's surely as much a gamble recruiting from the seaside leagues up here as it is from non-league in England.

 

Blyth and Bowman have 12 starts 15 subs and 1 goal between them. El Bahktaoui's has 11 starts 15 subs and 3 goals. 3 x as many goals for, presumably half the wage outlay. El Bahktaoui's 3 goals would make him our 3rd top scorer behind Moult and McDonald. And putting aside the stats - he's just a much more capable player than certainly Blyth and probably Bowman as well.

 

'Making any sort of impact' can sometimes come down to the manager preferring to play a big guy like Haber up front on his own and the style of football employed - which probably hasn't been in El Bahktaoui's favour.