Jump to content

League Cup 2017'18 Next: Celtic F (Hampden) 26/11/17 15:00


gdalli10
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well that's a grand we won't get back. (Or however much it costs these days...)

 

Having watched it a few times, I think we could possibly win this. Its a 50/50 situation where two bodies come together- He is just chasing the ball down. There is no malice here. No deliberate attempted on the player. I think under the uodated rules is could potentially be deemed a yellow card offence

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For it to be a red card it has to be deemed deliberate I think he tried to use his body to get in front of player but it's hard to prove he deliberately fouled him . I'm not saying was not a penalty but if be can prove he was genuinely trying to get ball then it's not a red .

Good post. I wasn't at the game and didn't have a front seat view. Looking back at the highlights its unclear what happened - yes there was a collision of course and Dunne seemed to come in from behind. However the picture just isn't clear enough to convince me either way. As you say there has to be intent and the appeals committee will have to be convinced of Dunne's intentions - not easy I'd say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For it to be a red card it has to be deemed deliberate I think he tried to use his body to get in front of player but it's hard to prove he deliberately fouled him . I'm not saying was not a penalty but if be can prove he was genuinely trying to get ball then it's not a red .

The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below

 

SENDING-OFF OFFENCES

 

A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:

denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)

denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)

serious foul play

spitting at an opponent or any other person

violent conduct

using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

receiving a second caution in the same match

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below

 

SENDING-OFF OFFENCES

 

A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:

denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)

denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)

serious foul play

spitting at an opponent or any other person

violent conduct

using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

receiving a second caution in the same match

The rules and the interpretation of them change so often these days (do you know you can make a fourth sub in extra time?!?!?) that I've kind of given up trying to work out what's right or wrong in the eyes of the SFA...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below

 

SENDING-OFF OFFENCES

 

A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:

denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)

denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)

serious foul play

spitting at an opponent or any other person

violent conduct

using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

receiving a second caution in the same match

I think they've updated that rule? Or certainly advised a different interpretation.

 

They are trying to stop the situation where defenders and particularly goalkeepers are getting sent off when they make a genuine attempt for the ball. So only the more cynical "last man" challenges should result in a red card.

 

Given some of the appeals they upheld last season you'd say he'll get downgraded to a yellow, but who knows?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they've updated that rule? Or certainly advised a different interpretation.

 

They are trying to stop the situation where defenders and particularly goalkeepers are getting sent off when they make a genuine attempt for the ball. So only the more cynical "last man" challenges should result in a red card.

 

Given some of the appeals they upheld last season you'd say he'll get downgraded to a yellow, but who knows?

It was amended last year: The previous 'triple-punishment' law meant a player who denied a goal-scoring opportunity in the box was automatically red-carded and handed a suspension, as well as giving away a penalty.

 

The law has now been changed so players committing accidental fouls that deny goal-scoring opportunities in the penalty area will not be automatically sent off, with a yellow card sufficient punishment. Actual amendment is "When a denial of a goalscoring opportunity offence is committed by a defender in the penalty area, the penalty kick effectively restores the goalscoring opportunity so the punishment for the player should be less strong (e.g. a yellow card) than when the offence is committed outside the penalty area. However, when the offence is handball or clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball, the player will be sent off."

 

So we must be appealing that he genuinely tried to play the ball and therefore should have only got a yellow.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was amended last year: The previous 'triple-punishment' law meant a player who denied a goal-scoring opportunity in the box was automatically red-carded and handed a suspension, as well as giving away a penalty.

 

The law has now been changed so players committing accidental fouls that deny goal-scoring opportunities in the penalty area will not be automatically sent off, with a yellow card sufficient punishment. Actual amendment is "When a denial of a goalscoring opportunity offence is committed by a defender in the penalty area, the penalty kick effectively restores the goalscoring opportunity so the punishment for the player should be less strong (e.g. a yellow card) than when the offence is committed outside the penalty area. However, when the offence is handball or clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball, the player will be sent off."

 

So we must be appealing that he genuinely tried to play the ball and therefore should have only got a yellow.

 

Fair point.

 

Still a weird and unbalanced ruling. The assumption that a penalty restores the goalscoring opportunity is flawed as many chances; such as in this case, was much more certain to produce a goal than a penalty kick is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he genuinely thought he could get to the ball, or at least block it, but the panel may be sceptical about whether that was actually possible without going through the player. Whatever the outcome it was some burst of pace from the big man to get there at all - if that had been Hammy he'd have got to the bye line just as they were kicking off for the restart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The laws of the game only specify "deliberate" in relation to handball for sending off offences, Dunne denied the Ross county player a clear goal scoring opportunity so it was a red card every day of the week. Makes no odds if he was trying to get the ball he brought the man down so it was a sending off. Details from FA site below

 

SENDING-OFF OFFENCES

 

A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:

denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)

 

Mark Reynolds in our classic at Aberdeen? Deliberate handball on the goal line, the ref played on rightly, goal scored but no red card? I'd like to see his explanation about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark Reynolds in our classic at Aberdeen? Deliberate handball on the goal line, the ref played on rightly, goal scored but no red card? I'd like to see his explanation about that.

 

If Thompson had been in charge of that game Dave, he would have stopped play, and awarded the penalty, he seems to have issues with the advantage rule, oh and of course we would have missed the Pen as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Big buff was more than just a centre half, he was a cracking footballer.

I was only 11 when we signed him, but if memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure he got brought in as a midfielder and he got booed terribly for being awful!

 

Was a fantastic servant when moved to CB, with no nonsense style of defending.

Was he not handy with a pair of scissors?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was only 11 when we signed him, but if memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure he got brought in as a midfielder and he got booed terribly for being awful!

 

Was a fantastic servant when moved to CB, with no nonsense style of defending.

Was he not handy with a pair of scissors?

Certainly handy with the patter when Mark Hately told him he'd a Ferrari in his drive and asked buff what was in his drive, 'A ton of red chips'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buff was a player. Never forget his 30 yarder to give us the lead at Ibrox. Some strike. Was easily the best CB in Scotland for 2 seasons. Was criminal he never got picked for the national team until his form had started to fade.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Big buff was more than just a centre half, he was a cracking footballer.

 

Didnae say he wisnae! :biggrin:

 

I was only 11 when we signed him, but if memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure he got brought in as a midfielder and he got booed terribly for being awful!

 

Was a fantastic servant when moved to CB, with no nonsense style of defending.

Was he not handy with a pair of scissors?

 

As fergi4 alludes to Buff was far from an overnight success at Fir Park, as he's stated himself on the podcast and at Q&A's. There was certainly a progression throughout his Motherwell career but the player we all remember when we think of Brian Martin is not the player of at that first season and a half filling across three or four positions, but the player who reached the heights he did having benefited from having the likes of excellent passers of the ball such as Lambert, Davies and of course Krivokapic alongside him.

 

Not to say he wasn't a cracking footballer, but to me if you're talking about ball playing centre-halves Mio is the one that would come to my mind first.

 

Buff was a player. Never forget his 30 yarder to give us the lead at Ibrox. Some strike. Was easily the best CB in Scotland for 2 seasons. Was criminal he never got picked for the national team until his form had started to fade.

He was unfortunate and should have had more caps. I remember Brown contradicting himself in his actions when he often selected Brian for squads then didn't play him going between a "we know what he can do" approach when overlooking him in some games and then a "you don't have the experience" in others. Won't have been too many times in the last 30 or 40 years we'll have had three players in the same Scotland squad!

 

I have fond memories of seeing him at Villa Park for Scotland v Holland at Euro '96 resplendent in one of his Scotland tops complete with Martin and whatever number it was emblazoned on the back.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Despite being Second in the league I don't really think Aberdeen have had a particuarly great start to the season tbh. They've yet to face either of the Old Firm, St Johnstone or Hibs and have had narrow victories against 3 or 4 teams you'd expect to be fighting relegation and drew 0-0 and 1-1 against Hearts and Killie teams that we beat pretty comfortably. No reason why we can't be dreaming of Hampden with a bit of luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've managed to win some physical battles but this will be more of a test in that respect. Their forward line hasn't quite clicked yet despite some real potential. I'm expecting a difficult game which we can hopefully sneak - just need to get our first half performances up to the level of those in the second.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...