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Goggles & Flippers

Bumper Year - Financials & Revenues

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With a double cup final season this must be on course to be our best financial and astute performance for quite a while. I'm going to take a stab at where we've achieved and where I have gaps or omissions then maybe others can fill in the blanks. We were already scheduled to have 4 home OF games prior to the split as we only had 2 last season (and in theory have 3 normally). This was done to rebalance.

 

Extra Home OF Game:

£150k

Total: £0.15m

 

Transfers:

Marvin Johnson $350 (reported) Oxford to Middlesborough sell on %

Ben Heneghan $400k Sheffield Wednesday

Louis Moult £500k Preston

Trevor Carson £10k

Total: £1.24m

 

Cup Runs:

League Cup Quarter Final vs Aberdeen, Fir Park, Att: 6,430 (5k x £20 + 1.4k x £5 = £107k - £35k costs = £72k / 2 teams = £36k - 20% VAT = £28.8k round up to £35k for hospitality) £35,000

League Cup Semi Final vs Rangers, Hampden, Att: 44,506 (44.6k+39.8k=70k x £25 av. ticket price = £2.1075m = 66% of that divided by 4 teams = £351.2k - 20% VAT = £281.5k +18.5k Catering, Hospitality & Programs) £300,000

League Cup Final vs Celtic, Hampden, Att: 49,483 £415,000 (49.5k x £30 av. ticket price = £1.485m = 66% of that divided by 2 teams = £495k - 20% VAT = £396k +9k Catering, Hospitality & Programs) £415,000

Scottish Cup Quarter Final vs Hearts, Fir Park, Att: 7,564 £40,000 (6k x £20 + 1.5k x £5 = £125k - £35k costs = £90k / 2 teams = £45k - 20% VAT = £36k round up to £40k for hospitality) £40,000

Scottish Cup Semi Final vs Aberdeen, Hampden, Att: 18,470 (18k+52k=70k x £25 av. ticket price = £1.75m = 66% of that divided by 4 teams = £291.5k - 20% VAT = £233.5k +6.5k Catering, Hospitality & Programs) £250,000

Scottish Cup Final vs Old Firm, Hampden, Att: 50,000 (52k x £30 av. ticket price = £1.56m = 66% of that divided by 2 teams = £520k - 20% VAT = £416k +9k Catering, Hospitality & Programs) £450,000

Total: £1.45m

 

Prize Money:

League Position (optimistically lets go for 7th) £1.36m (included UEFA money and other extra's)

League Cup Runner Up £115,000

Scottish Cup Winner/Runner Up £30,000/£60,000

Total: £1.5m

 

TV Revenues:

League Cup Quarter Final vs Aberdeen, Fir Park, BT £21,500

League Cup Semi Final vs Rangers, Hampden, BT £21,500

League Cup Final vs Celtic, Hampden, BT £32,500

Scottish Cup Quarter Final vs Hearts, Fir Park, BBC £82,500*

Scottish Cup Semi Final vs Aberdeen, Hampden, BBC/Sky £82,500*

Scottish Cup Final vs Old Firm, Hampden, BBC/Sky £82,500*

Total: £0.323m

(*Daily Mail article suggests reduction in fees for Scottish Cup Ties but can't find official confirmation)

 

TOTAL ADDITIONAL REVENUE FOR SEASON 2017-18: £4.653m

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One of the other reasons mentioned it was vital to stay up last season was the UEFA payment we were going to get. I don't remember what was quoted, but I think it was 6 figures.

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Some of the transfer income automatically goes to paying off the debt to Les and John Boyle, but that needs paying and, to do so, is a positive.  Having said that, there must be a fair amount of bonus income generated by the cup runs. I do not see a vast amount being made available to strengthen the squad, so we will still be looking for value in any of our dealings.

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I’m all for taking a close interest in club finances but seriously as a football fan, days like yesterday don’t come around often. Enjoy the moment! 

On your point, you’ve significantly overestimated the income from 5,000 Rangers/Celtic fans minus policing and possibly underestimated the Marvin transfer. Also, Robinson has mentioned a hundred time that Trevor Carson cost £10k. As for cup revenues (publicly available), worth bearing in mind a fair whack will rightly  go on player/staff  bonuses. 

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We get 25% of the pooled semi gate, so 25% of 70,000 rather than 50% of 18,000.

The club only tell us when they’re skint though, they don’t generally mention any positives financially.

Although I don’t really care, who’s going to tell their kids/grandkids about that famous season we turned a £200k profit.

:lol:

As long as we’re keeping the lights on and a team on the park it’s not really a major concern for me.

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Good post G & F.   Its very hard to estimate additional revenues but its interesting to try.  I'd say that the revenue from the additional OF game would be of the order of £50-60K taking into account extra expenses and VAT.  Transfers about right give or take a few thousnad.  TV revenues are £32,500 per game. 

As far as the cup runs are concerned:

* don't forget that 20% of each ticket sold is skimmed off in VAT. For every £30 ticket sold yesterday the Treasury earned £6.  

* for each game played roughly a third of revenue is deducted for expenses. 

* we get a 50% share of programme and catering cash from Hampden appearances. 

As for Hampden appearances a healthy proportion of thee attendance generates no imcome.  For the final I'd estimate that as much as 5,000 tickets will be dished out free to member club, dignitaries and corporate sponsors. 

Trying to work out our likely income for the final:- say a 45,000 paying crowd at an average of say £20(???) = £900,000 - our share would be £300,000.  Add to that the TV fee of £32,500 and sponsorship prize money of £100,000 = £432,500.  Add to that programme/catering cash and our own hospitality (anybody's guess) and deduct player bonuses.    

I'd say we're looking at a bottom line of about £400K from the final but thats a very rough guesstimate.  A very healthy year financially and thats critical for our future.

 

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6 hours ago, Lobey_Dosser said:

I’m all for taking a close interest in club finances but seriously as a football fan, days like yesterday don’t come around often. Enjoy the moment! 

On your point, you’ve significantly overestimated the income from 5,000 Rangers/Celtic fans minus policing and possibly underestimated the Marvin transfer. Also, Robinson has mentioned a hundred time that Trevor Carson cost £10k. As for cup revenues (publicly available), worth bearing in mind a fair whack will rightly  go on player/staff  bonuses. 

I'm able to multi-task, enjoying the result and revelling in how we've kept the wolf from the door.

It's well documented that the 6,500 OF fans contribute approx 200-250k more for their visit than a standard game. That's why we spat the dummy in 2016 when the fixtures were released.

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18 minutes ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

I'm able to multi-task, enjoying the result and revelling in how we've kept the wolf from the door.

It's well documented that the 6,500 OF fans contribute approx 200-250k more for their visit than a standard game. That's why we spat the dummy in 2016 when the fixtures were released.

So £30-40 a head after expenses? At £27 a ticket, we must be doing very well with hospitality. 

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Smoke and Mirrors. Lets just say it will be a good year. Leave the guessing to those who actually know. The club has done a great job so far spending our limited budget wisely.  Wild speculation is good reading tho.

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Your looking at £150k for the extra OF Game, (5000 extra fans at £25 + £25k additional hospitality)

 

Probs around £1.4m transfer cash but who knows the annual breakdowns, could be all up front,could be £350k a year for 4 years! Plus Les & Boyle get their cut.

 

Sure I read League Cup Final appearance made you £900k & Scottish Cup Final appearances £1.5m (combined prize money,tv money and ticket sales etc), take away what we originally budgeted for and player bonuses and your looking at maybe £1.4m pure profit.

 

If weve budgeted for 10th and finish 8th, your looking at around  £300k extra and Im sure the UEFA cash was around £450k (but has to be used for youth/running costs tho will cover anything with creative accounting)

 

So all in all your probably looking at around £2.3m pure profit plus whatever we get from the transfer cash.

However, you can see were already spending this cash with the new contracts, Pete signing etc so in the annual accounts it will be substantially less. Still, a fantastic year on and off the pitch and huge credit to all involved

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Definitely a great start to the fan ownership model.

And a huge debt owed to Les for his work in restructuring the club's organization, introducing some accountability and, of course, being generous with his "double your money" offer last year and this. If he hadn't stepped in we could have been in a completely different position.

I hope we balance our spending and saving wisely as we obviously won't be reaching 2 Cup Finals every season.

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Yeah, I'm not looking about overheads, I was counting on what is tangible extra revenue over a poor year which is 10th finish, no cup runs, no player sales.

 

First Post updated to show figures based on articles and advice.

 

As you point out, a lot of that revenue is directed to bonus' and to pre-existing loans, all which can be addressed rather than deferred as we have in the past. I've calculated we've made an extra £4m this year as the extra OF game goes to address the shortfall in season 2016/17. Also the extra SPFL money is only over 10th to 7th. With player bonus' and new contracts I think it's safe to say these items all combined take in the extra £653,000 I calculated over the £4m. 

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Also, let's not forget we ditched a lot of the top wage earners this season and brought in some cheaper replacements. Skippy, Lasley, Hammell, McManus, McFadden, Pearson, Ainsworth etc.

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7 hours ago, Shaka said:

Your looking at £150k for the extra OF Game, (5000 extra fans at £25 + £25k additional hospitality)

 

 

Don't forget to deduct 20% for VAT Shaka.  You also have to factor in concessions.  

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Interesting attempt and guessing the ins and outs and all considered don't think you are a million miles out. Two points I'd add:

  • The additional revenue from advertising pitch-side, in program, match/ball sponsorship, etc at Old Firm is a factor toward the £200-250k figure 'Flow mentioned a few years back. Also applies to Cup Games.
  • When it comes to TV money, is there not a double payment when the game is on two broadcasters like Saturday? BBC and Sky had the game on so I believe that is double the usual fee?

Whatever the numbers are, the point is we will be walking off at the end of the season with a balance sheet way beyond what we could have imagined at start of the season. However, the key for me is how we utilise those funds and the run of 2nd place finishes showed that we never made the most of the additional income. It's utterly refreshing to see a much more pragmatic approach to the financials at the club and the extra cash this way will be invested wisely rather than deployed on player recruitment - new scoreboard and tannoy system, money into youth development, etc which is exactly what it should be for. 

With the change to Europeans qualification made a few years back, we have to win to qualify for Europa League next year which could make the cup run even more rewarding financially. 

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Does anyone know roughly how much we'll owe Les and John Boyle taking into account this season's estimated income? 

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Does anyone know roughly how much we'll owe Les and John Boyle taking into account this season's estimated income? 

In short no - Dave 

However I am sure I read a comment from Robinson following on from the Cup Final stating that extra income goes back to former Chairmen.  I was fairly certain that it was only income from transfers that went to Les and John Boyle.  They get 60% or thereabouts from transfer income.  It may be this was not accurate.  It may also be that the club are keen to pay any debts off and therefore would decide to pay extra from additional income this season.  

I am sure it was around £1.6m we owed Les and around £500k to John Boyle.  Assuming the figures reported are accurate then we took in around £1.2m this season - £500k for Moult, £400k for Henaghan and £300k from Johnson.  So £720k paid off from the debt. All guesswork. Plus not sure if any money from previous season transfer was part of that or came before any agreement.

What we do know is that we must have had a record turnover this season.  Leaving transfer income and cup runs aside an increase of nearly 30% in attendance figures equating to 28,000 fans. Even if you assume a conservative £15 per extra fan - then that also equates to an additional £420,000 !  Plus you have to assume that our wage bill decreased over the previous season where it was reported our average annual salary was £55k and this season around £45k PA excluding bonuses.

I think Les was allowing up to 3 or 5 years to repay him.  So I guess no need to give extra money if we do not need too. Plus his very generous double your money offer will have reduced our debt to him from the sum detailed above. With a  number of saleable assets in the team I expect we should be in a position to pay off both former Chairman over the next couple of years. 

Important point is we put a fair chunk of this years unplanned earnings into the bank for a rainy day / season which is likely to happen at some point in the future.

 

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We are also due money off the back of Celtic qualifying for the Champions League. About £200k if I remember correctly? Not sure if we’ve had that yet.

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4 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

In short no - Dave 

However I am sure I read a comment from Robinson following on from the Cup Final stating that extra income goes back to former Chairmen.  I was fairly certain that it was only income from transfers that went to Les and John Boyle.  They get 60% or thereabouts from transfer income.

 

Ok here's my estimate of where we're at.  As at the end of May last year we owed Les £1,468,800 and John Boyle £280,400 (source MFC annual accounts).  I seem to recall that the Society raised £180,000 last year and perhaps its raised some £70,000 this year so far (guesstimate based on last year). Given Les's double your money offer thats about £250,000 knocked off his total leaving some £1,218,800 outstanding.  In total therefore we would owe £1,499,200.  Then we've had transfers, which are hard to quantify precisely.  Lets say Ben Heneghan £400,000, Louis Moult £450,000 and Marvin Johnson's add on of around £750,000.  So thats some £1.6 m but we'll deduct say £100k due to former clubs, leaving £1,500,000.  Our 2 creditors take 60% of transfers fees so that comes to some £900,000.

In total therefore we must still owe £1,499,200 minus £900,000 leaving some £599,200.  If the Society raises another £90,000 this year then thats another equivalent amount off Les's loan leaving just over £500,000 outstanding.  So unless the repayments are staged then if we sell one or two players this summer I reckon our debts will be all but cleared.   

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In the second post in the thead when I sourced everything, I think the 1.36m for league place included the Celtic UEFA money.

I think the 750,000 cited and attributed to Marvin is double what we were in line to receive.

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The back page of this morning's Sun (I know, it was lying about in the roll shop) has an 'exclusive ' saying we still owe money to Boyle and Hutchison. 

In other news, JFK has been shot.

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38 minutes ago, daver said:

The back page of this morning's Sun (I know, it was lying about in the roll shop) has an 'exclusive ' saying we still owe money to Boyle and Hutchison. 

In other news, JFK has been shot.

Not wishing to seem cynical but I heard a rumour of a cash bid for one of our players from an Old Firm side. Story flagged up to say 'take what we offer, you have debts to pay'?

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