The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

[steelboy]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a large cash element in Scottish football.

We obviously have a far higher wage bill than Accies and St Mirren.

[stuwell]

5 minutes ago, steelboy said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a large cash element in Scottish football.

We obviously have a far higher wage bill than Accies and St Mirren.

The figures quoted are basic wages. We might pay more in other benefits ie signing on fee, appearances, win bonuses, final league position etc which could put us above other clubs when taken into account. 

[Kat]

Chris Cadden ruled out for four months, tearing some tendon. Some nasty injuries the past 9 months.

[weeyin]

6 hours ago, steelboy said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a large cash element in Scottish football

Because there's so little oversight from the tax man - particularly on clubs that have been in administration?

 

[Onthefringes]

11 hours ago, weeyin said:

I think Accies have been the beneficiaries of some excellent/clever/dodgy sponsorship deals. Weren't they getting something like 800k/year from the naming rights to their stand?

They also have a steady income from the offices they rent to the council. Not to mention the cash they pocketed when they sold their old ground and the add-ons from McCarthy and McArthur transfers.

And the relative wages will also be skewed by the fact that we ditched the big earning senior pros (Lasley, McManus, McDonald, Hammel, McFadden, Pearson, Ainsworth etc.) during the period in question - not to mention Moult, who was our highest earner.

Not even close...

[Kmcalpin]

12 hours ago, weeyin said:

I think Accies have been the beneficiaries of some excellent/clever/dodgy sponsorship deals. Weren't they getting something like 800k/year from the naming rights to their stand?

They also have a steady income from the offices they rent to the council. Not to mention the cash they pocketed when they sold their old ground and the add-ons from McCarthy and McArthur transfers.

And the relative wages will also be skewed by the fact that we ditched the big earning senior pros (Lasley, McManus, McDonald, Hammel, McFadden, Pearson, Ainsworth etc.) during the period in question - not to mention Moult, who was our highest earner.

I wouldn't have thought that naming rights to their stand would net that much annually nor would annual office rent.  Surely transfer income from the lieks of McCarthy & MCarthur would have long gone?  They also run an expensive youth set up.  All very odd.

[weeyin]

 

Quote

 

4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I wouldn't have thought that naming rights to their stand would net that much annually nor would annual office rent.  Surely transfer income from the lieks of McCarthy & MCarthur would have long gone?  They also run an expensive youth set up.  All very odd. 

 

 

 

I wouldn't have though the naming rights would have netted that much either, but here is one quote from 2016.

Quote

 

 

 Scottish Premier League (SPL) soccer club Hamilton Academical have agreed to a two-year sponsorship agreement with home improvements firm Superseal.

The deal, worprth UK£550,000 (US$735,000) over the duration, will see the Cambridge company’s branding placed on the front of the club’s home kits through the 2016/17 season. Additionally, it has acquired the naming rights for the team’s home ground, New Douglas Park, which has been renamed the SuperSeal Stadium. 

 

“Hamilton Academical reesent South Lanarkshire proudly a more than just a football club,” said Kenny Webster of Superseal. “We are proud to support and sponsor the club with a record deal that will help them flourish further with their incredible community spirit.”

 

Hamilton Academical also announced a further UK£200,000 (US$267,000) investment from a group of sponsors: Hamilton eatery Equi’s, Tiger Turf, ZL Group, and online bookmaker NetBet.

 

 

Their new deal isn't quite as lucrative but according to the press release:

 

Quote

"The new sponsorship deal will net Accies a five-figure payment per season, as well as a percentage share of the profits from the sale of cannabis-based products."

 

Plus, of course, they have their Spice of Life named stand and the proceeds from the Sainsbury sale.

The amount of inward investment at Accies has always struck me as odd, and the whole "missing" 800k just adds to the mystery of how much cash they seem to attract.

 

 

 

[weeyin]

6 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Not even close...

So if the club was telling us porkies about Moult's contract when he left, who was on the best deal at the time? (and did we get shot of him?)

[rinkydink]

9 minutes ago, weeyin said:

So if the club was telling us porkies about Moult's contract when he left, who was on the best deal at the time? (and did we get shot of him?)

Might be mis-remembering, but I thought the line was that we offered to make him one of our best ever paid players, or words to that effect. 

[Kmcalpin]

31 minutes ago, weeyin said:

 The amount of inward investment at Accies has always struck me as odd, and the whole "missing" 800k just adds to the mystery of how much cash they seem to attract.

 

Agreed.  At the time of the internet banking scam (reported £800k loss), Accies Directors were reported as saying they'd need to dip into their own pockets to pay wages and the club was in dire straits.  They tried to calim the cash back but were unsuccessful.   Their accounts seem like a black box. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

2 hours ago, weeyin said:

So if the club was telling us porkies about Moult's contract when he left, who was on the best deal at the time? (and did we get shot of him?)

 

I thought that Hammell and Lasley were the last of the 2 grand a week players.

They both agreed to lower paid contracts on their last player deals.

[Onthefringes]

3 hours ago, weeyin said:

So if the club was telling us porkies about Moult's contract when he left, who was on the best deal at the time? (and did we get shot of him?)

Not that the club said anything of the sort. Others have given credible reasoning.

[superward]

4 hours ago, rinkydink said:

Might be mis-remembering, but I thought the line was that we offered to make him one of our best ever paid players, or words to that effect. 

Yep that's what I thought.

[Guest]

Worth remembering that the 'great deal' Accies got off Superseal was with a company that went belly-up during last season, so I'd assume they defaulted on a chunk of that payment at least.

[steelboy]

10 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Worth remembering that the 'great deal' Accies got off Superseal was with a company that went belly-up during last season, so I'd assume they defaulted on a chunk of that payment at least.

There is no point trying to figure out what is going on at Accies. MacDonald is extremely dodgy and Barry Hughes is apparently involved as well.

 

[weeyin]

17 hours ago, steelboy said:

There is no point trying to figure out what is going on at Accies. MacDonald is extremely dodgy and Barry Hughes is apparently involved as well.

 

True - but it would be interesting to know exactly how they manage it.

[Kmcalpin]

By my calculations, something like  15 players, including 2 loanees will be out of contract at the end of the season.  A massive clearout on the cards?  How many from Aldred, ATS, Bigirimana, Bowman, Cadden, Frear, Gorrin, Grimshaw, Main, Mbulu, McHugh,  Rose, Tanner, Newell and Sammon would we really want to keep? In my view about a third of them.  

[Spiderpig]

5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

By my calculations, something like  15 players, including 2 loanees will be out of contract at the end of the season.  A massive clearout on the cards?  How many from Aldred, ATS, Bigirimana, Bowman, Cadden, Frear, Gorrin, Grimshaw, Main, Mbulu, McHugh,  Rose, Tanner, Newell and Sammon would we really want to keep? In my view about a third of them.  

For me Dave, Cadden, Bigi, Mbulu, Bowman and Main would be worth an extension and as Tanner has been out that long if he is back fit next season it could be like a new player, so I would keep him. The rest can go anytime, 

[Yorkyred]

6 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

By my calculations, something like  15 players, including 2 loanees will be out of contract at the end of the season.  A massive clearout on the cards?  How many from Aldred, ATS, Bigirimana, Bowman, Cadden, Frear, Gorrin, Grimshaw, Main, Mbulu, McHugh,  Rose, Tanner, Newell and Sammon would we really want to keep? In my view about a third of them.  

For me those I would  retain. Aldred who is solid enough although not the quickest , Cadden who has not had the best of seasons but has enough quality, McHugh who gets too much criticism at times,  I actually prefer him as a defender, and Tanner who has been unlucky with injuries but offers something different.  I would give Gorrin and Mbulu the benefit of doubt just now and look again in the summer.  I would let the following go. ATS although again that could change if he gets a run in the team when fit, Bigi who for me goes missing in too many games and has cost us a good few goals  in my view. Bowman who has never really offered enough since we lost Moult, Frear who is just not good enough, Grimshaw again one good game in six, Main who sadly has gone backwards for no apparent reason and is just not scoring enough goals, Rose who I actually quite like as he offers that physicality at times but not involved enough, Newell, and Sammon who we should never have signed in the first place.

[Kmcalpin]

I picked up Robbo's comment recently that Milo posted earlier on the matchday thread.

"Robinson said in the press yesterday he fears/expects our “better players” to leave in January?

Which ones would that be?!?!"

I must admit to being curious myself.  Other things being equal, which they're not, I would have said, Carson, Tanner, Cadden, Gillespie, Dunne, Turnbull and Campbell.  Realistically I'd narrow that down to Cadden, Turnbull and Campbell.   A curious quote. 

 

[Yorkyred]

11 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I picked up Robbo's comment recently that Milo posted earlier on the matchday thread.

"Robinson said in the press yesterday he fears/expects our “better players” to leave in January?

Which ones would that be?!?!"

I must admit to being curious myself.  Other things being equal, which they're not, I would have said, Carson, Tanner, Cadden, Gillespie, Dunne, Turnbull and Campbell.  Realistically I'd narrow that down to Cadden, Turnbull and Campbell.   A curious quote. 

 

With Carson now out I think you are right with those three.

[MelvinBragg]

7 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I picked up Robbo's comment recently that Milo posted earlier on the matchday thread.

"Robinson said in the press yesterday he fears/expects our “better players” to leave in January?

Which ones would that be?!?!"

I must admit to being curious myself.  Other things being equal, which they're not, I would have said, Carson, Tanner, Cadden, Gillespie, Dunne, Turnbull and Campbell.  Realistically I'd narrow that down to Cadden, Turnbull and Campbell.   A curious quote. 

 

Cadden being out for four months surely rules that out. Campbell's recent form will hardly have teams beating a path to our door. I don't think Turnbull's body of work is enough to have teams ready to make a bid (although Robbie Leitch to Burnley was a surprise). Our other better players? Carson, Dunne and Tanner? All injured. 

So the comments are a mystery to me...

[Clackscat]

Cadden being out for four months surely rules that out. Campbell's recent form will hardly have teams beating a path to our door. I don't think Turnbull's body of work is enough to have teams ready to make a bid (although Robbie Leitch to Burnley was a surprise). Our other better players? Carson, Dunne and Tanner? All injured. 
So the comments are a mystery to me...

Kinda puts into perspective the difficulties we have with our 4 better players long term injured. Look at Hearts and how a few injuries have affected them. Not for a minute saying Robbo is the blameless messiah, but that injury list would test any squad, and add McHugh and Hartley suspensions too.

Also saw Livi have had 8 clean sheets including Hearts, Celtic, and Rangers, so disappointing as Saturday was we are not alone.

Overall our squad is limited and just cannot cope with the absence of all the better players. While Maguire is a great prospect Saturday showed you cannot expect too much too soon. Tough times ahead but I think we have enough to stay up then start again next year, especially with the youngsters more ready to step up

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[Ya Bezzer!]

2 hours ago, Clackscat said:

While Maguire is a great prospect Saturday showed you cannot expect too much too soon. Tough times ahead but I think we have enough to stay up then start again next year, especially with the youngsters more ready to step up.

Maguire is 20 years old, has been at the club since 2015-16 and has 5 appearances.  A player like Stevie Hammell would have had over 100 club appearances at the same age.

Maguire is a classic example of how bad we are at developing talent these days through lack of first team exposure.

[Spiderpig]

SR on the BbC saying we need to move players on in January before we can bring anybody in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46440501

So it begins , clearing out the dross