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The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

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19 minutes ago, Villageman said:

Crap!   Yes there is no risks in  contracting  A ie one boy. Where does the risk start offering  contract to young boys ?  15 or 20  of them maybe ?  You would be the first to complain when a boy we  gave a contract to failed to make the grade.

No one is saying give them all extended deals just the ones that have clear potential to make the first team.

As i've already said boys not making the grade is part of youth development. It shouldn't put us off.

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6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

As i've already said boys not making the grade is part of youth development. It shouldn't put us off.

It clearly hasn't. We have 4 players in the current Scotland under-21 squad, more than any other team has. If we only hang onto three of those past the end of this season, that still seems like a pretty good return to me.

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7 hours ago, Lukemfc1 said:

To be honest, I think the hysteria surrounding this is perfectly normal. One of the best players we have produced in some time pissing off to the Old Firm is as depressing as it gets. IF Hastie goes he will get pelters and rightly so. The boy is quoted as saying he wants to stay and will have done a u-turn. Obviously the fans are going to be raging at that. I think if it was down south we would be slightly less depressing but the fact it's them is a boot in the balls.

Well fans shouldnt be raging they should be realistic .. if fans are daft enough to believe a player or manager when they talk about contracts and their intentions before they actually commit pen to paper they deserve to be disappointed...... football is a dirty game full of double speak and liars .. its just the nature of the product. Honest brokers are few and far between. life goes on 

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Moving away from Jake debate he might still sign a new deal so let's not be too Hastie......ba boom...........anyway let's get Aldred signed up. I just love the guys attitude.....I have a lot of our great wins recorded and the way he celebrates at end is a joy...so up for it and also a damn good centre half

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11 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Moving away from Jake debate he might still sign a new deal so let's not be too Hastie......ba boom...........anyway let's get Aldred signed up. I just love the guys attitude.....I have a lot of our great wins recorded and the way he celebrates at end is a joy...so up for it and also a damn good centre half

Aldred signing up would be just as important as Hastie for me, would love to see him sign a 2/3 year contract.

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4 hours ago, steelboy said:

No one is saying give them all extended deals just the ones that have clear potential to make the first team.

As i've already said boys not making the grade is part of youth development. It shouldn't put us off.

Still not seeing anybody provide a solution to the problem of players being offered contracts, but not signing.

Genuinely interested to hear how we (or any club) can make that happen. Some kind of indentured servitude maybe? 

Maybe we should adopt the Dundee Utd model all the experts on here were telling us was so good 2 or 3 years ago.

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On the Hastie/Rangers thing, I don't have a problem with the player.  I have a problem with the manager and the club who have allowed the two top players from a very good youth side to go into the last 6 months of their contracts without getting them tied up.

If Hastie had been given a contract a year ago, or 6 months ago, when everyone knew he was one of the two stand out players coming through our system, he'd have probably signed up and that would be that.

The way the club has conducted it's self over the last few years with regards to it's youth policy, it's (non existent) long term strategy of promoting youth and for giving youth players a clear path into the first team has been shamefully misguided and shambolic.

Robinson's volte-face of recent weeks doesn't cut it.  Horrendous mistakes and mismanagement have occurred under his, and his superiors, watch in this regard.

Whether Hastie stays or goes some arse's need kicked, a coherent and future proofed youth strategy needs to be put in place and the first team manager should be working under a specific remit to develop youth players within a first team context.

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Anyone know what the development fee is likely to be if Hastie goes to the h*n side ?

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2 hours ago, weeyin said:

Still not seeing anybody provide a solution to the problem of players being offered contracts, but not signing.

Genuinely interested to hear how we (or any club) can make that happen. Some kind of indentured servitude maybe? 

Maybe we should adopt the Dundee Utd model all the experts on here were telling us was so good 2 or 3 years ago.

Straight question which you have not addressed so far.

If Motherwell had had the foresight to offer Hastie  (and Turnbull )  extended contracts in the summer when the whole Club was on a high after two Cup Finals, do you think two exceptional players making their way in the game would have jumped at a decent offer with the strong possibilty of first team football in the near future?  Our coaches had already identified both as  players close to breaking into our first team. 

As an aside,  to compare them with the likes of Thomas, Watt etc  is like comparing apples with oranges. Even if ignoring the gulf in quality,  and taking into account only attitude.  If you want to compare them with anybody, can I suggest McFadden, McAllister and Murphy as youngsters.

We are led to believe the Club was not in a position to make such offers in the Summer as all available funds were utilised to hand extended contracts to the likes of Newell and Gordon and bring in players such as Taylor-Sinclair, and Sammon on loan. Our Manager sought to strengthen the bench with those players rather than trust home grown youth. We were then repeatedly told that no further funds would be available until some players left. Ironically Taylor-Sinclair was then one of the players that left in January. 

If offers had been made to Hastie and Turnbull last August , and declined, then ,yes, your argument would hold water. You most certainly cannot make players sign. But the point you appear to overlook is that it seems no such offers were made as a different strategy was followed. At whose insistence we cannot be sure.  That decision could ultimately cost the Club a fortune if Hastie goes on to have the career anticipated. Possibly losing out on McKinstrey in the long term is a bit more understandable as he was not as far advanced as others, But to run the risk of losing out on Hastie and Turnbull by allowing their contracts to run down to such an extent was negligent.

And no,  I don't think that every youth player who shows a modicum of talent should be signed up on the Dundee Utd model. But I do think every possible effort should be made to tie up exceptional talents such as Turnbull and Hastie before it gets to the stage that they can sign PCAs and walk away for a pittance compared to their potential future value. Particularly when those players had already turned down much bigger Clubs  when signing for Motherwell previously. Unless of course you know for a fact that they were offered improved terms before January 2019 and refused to sign.

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Agree with most of the posters. Surely the club have the foresight to identify which youngters are likely to break into the first team and these are the guys we sign up longer term before, not after, they make a name for themselves in the first team.

If only 1 in 4 actually makes it, and the other 3 bench warm for the remainder of ther contracts then we'd probably still be looking at a good financial return. Not to mention the enjoyment of watching our own develop.

We extended Barry macguires deal by 1 year so if he makes it into the team next season, which its looking like he might, we will find ourselves in the same position again. Why wasn't this at least 2 years to give us time to renegotiate if that happens? Out of interest, anyone know what macguire would now be on in comparison to, say, Donnelly or mbulu?

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The facts are that very few fans if any on here know the truth around Hastie.

It could be as mentioned we did not have the money to offer contracts until after the last window when quite a number of players moved on inc Bowman and Bigi. Has the latter featured for Hibs yet ? 

Or it could be that as mentioned the club don’t rate Hastie as much as his recent performances suggest they should and are happy to get a decent development fee.  Or we have very little money and could do with the Development fee. 

What I do find odd is that many red tops and now Kris Boyd are saying it is all but a done deal to Rangers and you have the lad himself saying that NO talks have taken place. How can anyone by offered a contract if no talks have taken place. Unless he means he has not held talks but of course his agent has. 

Maybe they are waiting until after the game today. 

It is a good distraction from Brexit, but it is starting to take as long to get a final resolution. I think we would all rather know one way or the other and just move on. 

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9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

On the Hastie/Rangers thing, I don't have a problem with the player.  I have a problem with the manager and the club who have allowed the two top players from a very good youth side to go into the last 6 months of their contracts without getting them tied up.

If Hastie had been given a contract a year ago, or 6 months ago, when everyone knew he was one of the two stand out players coming through our system, he'd have probably signed up and that would be that.

The way the club has conducted it's self over the last few years with regards to it's youth policy, it's (non existent) long term strategy of promoting youth and for giving youth players a clear path into the first team has been shamefully misguided and shambolic.

Robinson's volte-face of recent weeks doesn't cut it.  Horrendous mistakes and mismanagement have occurred under his, and his superiors, watch in this regard.

Whether Hastie stays or goes some arse's need kicked, a coherent and future proofed youth strategy needs to be put in place and the first team manager should be working under a specific remit to develop youth players within a first team context.

Within 12 months 7 of the 10 outfield players could have come through the youth ranks, is there another club in the top flight close to that ?

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23 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Within 12 months 7 of the 10 outfield players could have come through the youth ranks, is there another club in the top flight close to that ?

Aye all of them because it's complete speculation.

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14 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Aye all of them because it's complete speculation.

When posters talk of a none existent youth policy it’s needs to be backed up, we already have 5 in the first team and I believe Maguire will follow shortly.

 

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£1M for 2x propspects is good business! 

If both guys were on long term contracts, what would their real market value be? (interested clubs usually dictate... but the club can say 'No' to offers. Would there be the same level of interest?)

Again, if both were secured on contracts, how much more (than the development fees) would  the club be looking for IF interest transpired? Think of the fees accepted for Moult / Kipre  / Marvin Johnson... are either propspects at the same level?? 

If Jake stays a while, then great :woop:, the questions above might be answered and the development fees increases for the next point his contract is near ending.

If he goes, then the club is richer for it and it has showcased the model and platform for the next generation choosing Motherwell! 

Im happy to support both players in a motherwell shirt while they are here. 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, fergi4 said:

£1M for 2x propspects is good business! 

If both guys were on long term contracts, what would their real market value be? (interested clubs usually dictate... but the club can say 'No' to offers. 

Where does the £1m come from ?

Mckinstry was reputedly up to £300k. 

No was would we get £700k for development fee for Hastie 

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In recent years Motherwell have had an excellent youth policy, when it comes to identifying and developing young players. As is common, some will reach a higher level than others. If, very shortly, 7 of the first team have been produced by our youth programme, then that will be a magnificent achievement and the Club deserve great credit.

What concerns some is that  in early January 2019 four of those exceptional talents were in a position to sign Pre Contract Agreements with whoever they liked and leave us with a much poorer financial return than anticipated and much weaker from a playing point of view. Fortunately three of those players opted to remain with us and hopefully the fourth will also go down that line. We got lucky this time, but really we should not have been exposed to such an extent.

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4 hours ago, mfc88 said:

We extended Barry macguires deal by 1 year so if he makes it into the team next season, which its looking like he might, we will find ourselves in the same position again. Why wasn't this at least 2 years to give us time to renegotiate if that happens?

I'm sure I heard that the length of the deals being offered is what was part of the problem for some players. The club wanted them to sign longer deals, while the players wanted one year deals. It's worth bearing in mind that it's not all down to the club, the players themselves have a part to play in negotiations, and if they either don't want to sign at all, or only sign for a year then there isn't much we can do about it.

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I had a go at Celtic fans for their mad reaction to Brendan leaving but I have to say I prefer a heid's gone reaction to the pretend not bothered, too cool, laid back reaction many seem to like to show.

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3 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

The facts are that very few fans if any on here know the truth around Hastie.

By far and away the most sensible line in this entire thread. The hindsight from people on here who could allegedly see a guy who scored 3 goals in 50 appearances for Airdrie and fucking Alloa is next level.

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1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

I had a go at Celtic fans for their mad reaction to Brendan leaving but I have to say I prefer a heid's gone reaction to the pretend not bothered, too cool, laid back reaction many seem to like to show.

I think it's more of a case of some of us having lived through various players leave the club. Hastie leaving for Rangers is disappointing, but its hardly the end of world, even in a footballing sense.

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1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

I had a go at Celtic fans for their mad reaction to Brendan leaving but I have to say I prefer a heid's gone reaction to the pretend not bothered, too cool, laid back reaction many seem to like to show.

What makes you think it's a pretence? Some folk get upset, others don't. I can't remember the last time anything to do with football made me actually angry.

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5 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

I had a go at Celtic fans for their mad reaction to Brendan leaving but I have to say I prefer a heid's gone reaction to the pretend not bothered, too cool, laid back reaction many seem to like to show.

It’s life, why get that upset about the potential transfer of a football player. Other things far more important looking at a bigger picture.

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