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The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

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46 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I heard Cadden and Carson are doubtful and with Campbell suspended and Kipre possibly away. If we get anything from Sunday it could be a minor miracle.....

I’d be reading into this as well and be expecting to say Au revoir to the two of them and biggi as well next week

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9 minutes ago, dossertillidie said:

I’d be reading into this as well and be expecting to say Au revoir to the two of them and biggi as well next week

We have to be very careful. We are in the business of selling players but it is not that long ago that Dundee United sold 3 or 4 of their best players for a small fortune but where did it get them. 3 years in the championship......

I cannot imagine we need the money after the cup runs from last year. 

PS - Milo - your invite is in the post :-) 

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37 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

At the start of last pre season we played 2 centre half’s  one in each half at Stirling … both played well but we did not have budget for both

We couldn’t agree money with the more experienced one (who looked the better on the day) and we signed Cedric

The other one went back to the French 2nd Div I think

Wonder what he’s up to now

Bira dembele

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Seems a funny time to be having a fire sale. There will probably be a fair amount of cash swilling about in the next few days with the English window about to close, but that does not excuse us for accepting any half arsed offers that come along. If we lose Kipre, Carson and Camden for say a combined initial total of around £2 million, it will be good news for Hutchison, Boyle and Hartlepool, and a season of grim struggle for us as we fight for tenth place.

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24 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

We have to be very careful. We are in the business of selling players but it is not that long ago that Dundee United sold 3 or 4 of their best players for a small fortune but where did it get them. 3 years in the championship......

I cannot imagine we need the money after the cup runs from last year. 

PS - Milo - your invite is in the post :-) 

Indeed. Dunne, Bowman and Tanner still being out left us short in certain areas as is. Do we really want to be five or six players down for the first couple of months of the season? I know we'd try and get replacements in but how long will they take to get up to speed? A 433 of

Gillespie 

Tait McHugh Hartley Taylor-Sinclair 

Rose Campbell Gorrin 

Johnson Sammon Frear

or a 352 of

Gillespie 

Donnelly McHugh Hartley 

Tait Rose Campbell Gorrin Frear

Johnson Sammon 

doesn't look the most tried and tested. Wouldn't leave a great deal on the bench either. 

No point being financially secure for the season and then going down...

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Million bucks! Amazing for the club if true and exactly what we should be doing. 

Carson will be next and I think he will be 7 figures too.

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3 minutes ago, johnstone said:

Million bucks! Amazing for the club if true and exactly what we should be doing. 

Carson will be next and I think he will be 7 figures too.

With the amount of cash English clubs seem to have, and the silly prices they seem to be happy paying, why should we settle for anything less?

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It’s going to be a tense week or so. I’ll be gutted if Cedric is going but you can’t argue with a million plus a sell on clause.

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I've said it to a few people recently with the English window closing next Thursday at 5pm I wouldn't be surprised if we lost a couple players before or after the hibs game,  no doubt if Kipre goes then it wouldn't surprise me if we want to bring in another defender.

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9 minutes ago, Gadgey said:

If the quoted sun article is anything to go by, it isn’t £1m plus add ons. 

It does in the final paragraph. A sizeable downpayment plus.....that could add up to the 7 figure sum. 

In all honesty that would make sense. In the real world should be be valued at £1m after one full season as a pro. In the world of English football he is probably worth many multiples of £1m ! 

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If Kipre goes for that, in a business sense he has got to be one of our most successful signings in years. 

Brought in as a youth player (so I understand), get 50+ senior appearances and two cup finals out of him and sold for £1m a year later. Well done Martin Foyle. 

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9 hours ago, The African said:

Seems a funny time to be having a fire sale. There will probably be a fair amount of cash swilling about in the next few days with the English window about to close, but that does not excuse us for accepting any half arsed offers that come along. If we lose Kipre, Carson and Camden for say a combined initial total of around £2 million, it will be good news for Hutchison, Boyle and Hartlepool, and a season of grim struggle for us as we fight for tenth place.

Surely getting the debt paid off as quickly as possible is also good news for the club moving forward ? I understand there is a level of risk regarding retaining our place in the top flight but all clubs sell their best players at some stage. I would not see this as a “half arsed offer” if the figures quoted are correct. He’s been with us one season and in my view still has some way to go in his development. The top end of the Championship is very tough and he will not even be a nailed on starter. A good percentage of players moving from Scotland don’t make the step up even at Championship level, Moult and Hennegan are hardly setting it on fire and as such comparison with transfer fees down south for established players can’t be compared.

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9 hours ago, The African said:

Seems a funny time to be having a fire sale. There will probably be a fair amount of cash swilling about in the next few days with the English window about to close, but that does not excuse us for accepting any half arsed offers that come along. If we lose Kipre, Carson and Camden for say a combined initial total of around £2 million, it will be good news for Hutchison, Boyle and Hartlepool, and a season of grim struggle for us as we fight for tenth place.

Think it's more the consequence of the English transfer window shutting next Thursday instead of the end of the month, than an actual fire sale. Think with their change it was always going to affect us around the start of the season.

Wonder if we're going to have to go a similar window in the future.

As for Kipre, will be gutted if he leaves, thought we'd have him for another year, good luck to the lad though he deserves it.

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I see Humphrey has been rejected by St Mirren, but tbh I’d have him here mainly for cover at RWB/ RM but could be a good bit of pace of the bench if the money is right.

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apparently due to injuries he has lost most of his pace, not for me. As for the bring in Aldred to replace kipre chat, he's already made it clear he has no intentions of returning to Motherwell, has done since the day he signed. 

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1 minute ago, supermarv said:

I see Humphrey has been rejected by St Mirren, but tbh I’d have him here mainly for cover at RWB/ RM but could be a good bit of pace of the bench if the money is right.

To be honest, I think we already had Humphrey's best years when he was with us. Seem to remember him starting at Hibs doing really well in the first couple of games and then tailed off...

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1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

Surely getting the debt paid off as quickly as possible is also good news for the club moving forward ? I understand there is a level of risk regarding retaining our place in the top flight but all clubs sell their best players at some stage. I would not see this as a “half arsed offer” if the figures quoted are correct. He’s been with us one season and in my view still has some way to go in his development. The top end of the Championship is very tough and he will not even be a nailed on starter. A good percentage of players moving from Scotland don’t make the step up even at Championship level, Moult and Hennegan are hardly setting it on fire and as such comparison with transfer fees down south for established players can’t be compared.

The debt being paid is necessary, but will it give us a warm rosy glow after three seasons in the Championship?

 

The problem is that the only figures being quoted are a possibility of seven figures when the add ins kick in. So we are really looking at letting him go and praying for their success. Cedric is a potential goldmine as he genuinely has the assets to go all the way to the top. We seriously need to cash in on this, whether it is now,  or later. Half a million now( speculation) looks cheap and one would hope that we could do a bit better. 

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We've got to be realistic as a club and sell players when fair bids come in. That's our ethos as a club and how we sell ourselves to players- if we start messing players around we might not be as attractive an option to future targets. 

It's fine to dingy derisory offers like Celtics for Carson but if the offer for Kipre is anywhere approaching a million plus add ons then it's fair and we have to take it. If it leaves us short on players we can afford a few nominal fees, even after paying our creditors. 

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45 minutes ago, The African said:

The debt being paid is necessary, but will it give us a warm rosy glow after three seasons in the Championship?

The problem is that the only figures being quoted are a possibility of seven figures when the add ins kick in. So we are really looking at letting him go and praying for their success. Cedric is a potential goldmine as he genuinely has the assets to go all the way to the top. We seriously need to cash in on this, whether it is now,  or later. Half a million now( speculation) looks cheap and one would hope that we could do a bit better. 

Absolutely.  We have no need to sell right now and should only do so if the right bid i.e initial payment of £1 million comes in.  Personally I'd be looking for a down payment of between £1 million and £1.5million.  A few hundred thousand is chickfeed to a club like Wigan. Add ons after that. 

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Like Kipré, but if a bid of £1m with a  sell on and other future income clauses comes in we should accept.

It's exactly the business model we're aspiring to and I'd expect it would be yet another example to put in front of would-be signings.

In terms of the debt, as far as I know it's interest free, so I guess we need to balance paying it off, with leveraging its usefulness.

Eg Rather than just whacking the supposed £1m to Boyle/Hutchison, just pay what we're obliged to, then make a judgement as to whether the remainder is best used to find a replacement replacement,  or go on infrastructure etc or pay the debt.

 

 

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A million quid for Kipre is a no brainer, It isn't a million years ago that Rangers 'offered' a million for Mark Reynolds.

Take the money, pay the debt, re-invest a bit if we can.

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I'd be gutted if Kipre goes,  he has the potential to go to the top level. I honestly think he should be setting his sights higher than Wigan but with the money being banded about down there it is understandable if he wants to move on.

The wording in the s*n article concerns me. Sounds more like it is 1m max after add ons. To me, we should be asking for atleast a milion up front with a decent sell on fee. Kipre could move on for big money down the line. Just have a look at Mr Waghorn who is slated to be moving on for 8m pounds this summer. Kind of sums up the money being banded about down there.  Cedric has all the attributes to play at the top level, much higher than the EFL. Personally I would be looking for a record fee i.e 1.25m+ plus but I can understand the club taking a bit less. Cedric has been one of my favourites for quite some time and regardless of the $ coming in I will be gutted.

Always find it interesting the reaction to players moving on from fans. Personally as a fan a large transfer fee doesn't really mean much to me to compensate a guy like Kipre leaving the club. We won't reinvest it in the team so there isn't much return as a supporter. Aye it's good to balance the books and obviously we have invested interest in that but as a guy going to the football on a Saturday I don't really get any joy from us getting transfer fees in.  Hopefully at some point in the near future we will be able to reinvest more of the money from transfer fees into youth, training facilites and transfer wages.

Does anyone know what debt we still have to clear to the previous owners? I know there's a fair whack of transfer fees that go towards it but would be hopeful we can clear this off in the next few years with the young talent we have on our books at the moment. Wasn't sure if it is still in the multi millions or not?

I can see McHugh stepping in as a starting CB this season but would be nice to use some of the cash to pay a small fee for a boy with potential in a similar mould as Kipre.

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