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Andy_P

The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

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Football can’t be compared to “normal” professions. For good or bad, there is the potential to earn a whole lot of money very quickly regardless of performance. You can leave Motherwell for English lower league nobodies and triple your salary for three years without even playing.

After playing, unless you become a top manager or pundit, the same money just isn’t there and there are fewer jobs. So from a financial standpoint it makes sense to move if the opportunity arises.

However, many young players know that it makes more footballing sense to get regular playing time, build a reputation, and reap the rewards of a bigger move a few years later, and actually playing games is why most got into the profession in the first place.

Either way, I’ve never had a problem with players moving to maximize their income, that’s totally their business. Ideally the good ones stay and develop and the shore ones leave before we give them a contract, but that’s not how it works.


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1 hour ago, David said:

The whole point I was making was that if a player, of any age, is offered the chance to sign for a club and triple his weekly wage there's a good chance he takes it, especially as it means they're in a better position financially to move into something else when their playing career ends. 

Yes of course, but not all will.  There are a whole range of factors which might influence an individual's decision on when to move or if indeed to move at all.  As Fizoxy says, "Many young players know that it makes more footballing sense to get regular playing time, build a reputation, and reap the rewards of a bigger move a few years later, and actually playing games is why most got into the profession in the first place."

Most young players will want to move up  in  the game and I get that, but timing is also crucial.  Some do want to establish themselves first, earn a good reputation and then move on and up.   

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58 minutes ago, fizoxy said:

Football can’t be compared to “normal” professions. For good or bad, there is the potential to earn a whole lot of money very quickly regardless of performance. You can leave Motherwell for English lower league nobodies and triple your salary for three years without even playing.

After playing, unless you become a top manager or pundit, the same money just isn’t there and there are fewer jobs. So from a financial standpoint it makes sense to move if the opportunity arises.

However, many young players know that it makes more footballing sense to get regular playing time, build a reputation, and reap the rewards of a bigger move a few years later, and actually playing games is why most got into the profession in the first place.

Either way, I’ve never had a problem with players moving to maximize their income, that’s totally their business. Ideally the good ones stay and develop and the shore ones leave before we give them a contract, but that’s not how it works.


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The probalem has always been when young players believe the hype. Paul Slane is a classic example. I am sure he will have cause to reflect and regret the decision to leave Motherwell when he did.  

Even Lee Erwin to a certain extent. Talking of which I am sure I read he has walked away from yon Iranian team citing homesickness. Wonder if any Well fans on here would want him back ? Although FIFA are likely to get involved by all accounts. 

I would like Turnbull to sign a deal for 2 to 3 years, with the obvious caveat that if we receive an offer of X amount we will let him move on. He is reportedly a Motherwell fan and seems quite level headed so hopefully a deal can be done. If he opts to leave then we should be due money either from a development fee or transfer fee. 

 

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes of course, but not all will.  There are a whole range of factors which might influence an individual's decision on when to move or if indeed to move at all.  As Fizoxy says, "Many young players know that it makes more footballing sense to get regular playing time, build a reputation, and reap the rewards of a bigger move a few years later, and actually playing games is why most got into the profession in the first place."

Does it still make footballing sense if you sign a new deal to get regular playing time, a new manager comes in who doesn't rate you and you end up not playing? Or you end up injured and released down the line having missed out on the chance to earn some good money?

It depends on who the individual is, that's true, and on their mentality. If I was a player in Turnbull's position and was facing a choice between a new deal at Fir Park, where I could get more game time under Robinson, but run the risk of not fulfilling my potential, getting injured, a new manager coming in who doesn't fancy me and it all going tits up with me eventually leaving on a free in a few years, or the guarantee of triple my wages for two years or so and the chance to return to Scottish football afterwards and still make that money I was offered at Motherwell I'd be offski.

Again, I'm talking as someone a bit older, someone who would be thinking about the financial future of my wife and kids over the notion of playing games and winning trophies. All of that would come second to me securing my families future, and I'd go where the money is.

40 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Even Lee Erwin to a certain extent. Talking of which I am sure I read he has walked away from yon Iranian team citing homesickness. Wonder if any Well fans on here would want him back ? Although FIFA are likely to get involved by all accounts. 

Lee Erwin left us for a three year deal at Leeds on decent coin, and even though he didn't make a dent there he more than likely earned more than he would have with us as a regular. He then went to Killie, where he probably earned at least what we offered him, before he moved to Iran where he was offered "substantially more" than he was on at Killie.

I doubt he'll have much trouble finding another club if he's not happy in Iran. He's only 24 years old and has made far more than he likely would have if he'd stayed with us.

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11 minutes ago, David said:

I doubt he'll have much trouble finding another club if he's not happy in Iran. He's only 24 years old and has made far more than he likely would have if he'd stayed with us.

And as Erwin's club have just reported him and Anthony Stokes to FIFA for walking out on them, I'm guessing he's not happy.

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Rose moving on wouldn't be a huge surprise. The surprise was, given that even this time last year there was chat that his family were nudging him towards a move away from the UK, that he signed an extension in the first place. 

I think he's been a good signing over the piece. Never spectacular but did a decent job whilst the likes of Campbell and Turnbull developed to the point that both have made his presence in the side much less important than it perhaps was when he first arrived. 

Interesting to see whether he's one of those earmarked for a January departure or whether it'll be at the end of the season. 

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The MLS season starts in March so January may make most sense if Vancouver want to give us a nominal fee for his remaining 6 months.

Agree with your summation of Rose, Andy. A good signing over the piece and more than did his bit in our successful season last year. I’d have been sorry to see him leave in the summer but with Campbell and Turnbull now more established his place in the squad isn’t quite as secure.

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3 hours ago, Dezz said:

The MLS season starts in March so January may make most sense if Vancouver want to give us a nominal fee for his remaining 6 months.

 

So, as things stand, Andy Rose may move on next month and Falkirk have made it widely known that they're keen on taking Ross MacLean.  If our budget permits, Jake Hastie may return. 

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2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

So, as things stand, Andy Rose may move on next month and Falkirk have made it widely known that they're keen on taking Ross MacLean.  If our budget permits, Jake Hastie may return. 

Forgive me Dave, but in what way would our budget preclude Jack Hastie's return?  He's already our player and by all accounts an option for him return during the January window was included in the terms of his move to Alloa.  Even if Alloa were making a contribution of sorts for his services I would be amazed if the fact we were now 100% responsible for his salary would have any bearing on him coming back, if we wanted that to happen. 

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He’s gone to Vancouver whitecaps, as announced by them.


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hmm he was a decent player done a lot of hard shifts in the middle of the park that got overlooked by many. Would not have been my first choice on the list  for January moves but good luck and many thanks for your service to the club.

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Rose wasn’t on my list of “people I’d like to leave the club in January” but here we are.

Hopefully Donnelly, Taylor-Sinclair, Bowman, Frear, and Sammon to follow.

To paraphrase a quote from Pie and Bovril, it’s absolutely mental to think we need major surgery in January after completing a fairly solid previous season.

After the summer we just had I’m not sure I trust Robinson to add wisely in January.

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6 hours ago, Andy_P said:

Forgive me Dave, but in what way would our budget preclude Jack Hastie's return?  He's already our player and by all accounts an option for him return during the January window was included in the terms of his move to Alloa.  Even if Alloa were making a contribution of sorts for his services I would be amazed if the fact we were now 100% responsible for his salary would have any bearing on him coming back, if we wanted that to happen. 

Apologies Andy, my comment was partly tongue in cheek and before the news about Andy Rose was confirmed.  At every turn we broadcast the message that we're totally skint (unlike our close rivals).  I accept that might be deliberate to dampen dreams of healthy warchests from other clubs.   My thinking was that if we were totally skint and no-one was shipped out next month ie the worst case scenario, then if Jake Hastie were to return we couldn't even afford his wages (currently being paid by Alloa presumably).  That won't now happen as Andy Rose is leaving next month, although its unclear if any fee, however nominal, will be involved.  At the very least a wage will be freed up. 

I'm ambivalent about him going, although I'd rather we lost a few others first.  We are reasonably well off for central midfielders and need to strengthen in other areas first.  Centre Back; left sided wide midfielder; creative midfielder and striker.  Still now that we know for certain Rose is departing it will free up some cash - maybe to allow us to bring Hastie back :evilgrin:

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I’m sure he’s a nice guy however Rose certainly would challenge Marc Fitzpatrick in the “running beside people but not doing anything” category. Best for all parties. 

Omwards and upwards. We really need to recruit well in January. I’m interested to see which faces will be heading for the exit come the turn of the year. My suspicion would be Frear, ATS, Sammon, the young chocolate teapot striker and Bigi. 

We’re in deperate need of a striker of real quality, a midefielder of stature and a left sided player. 

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Often did the dirty work in our better performances and never given enough credit in my view, we often looked better with him in the team than out of it last season. Good luck to the guy and thanks for the effort you always put in.

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1 hour ago, milo said:

 

Hopefully Donnelly, Taylor-Sinclair, Bowman, Frear, and Sammon to follow.

George Newell is so far out the picture he can't even make a bin list. Hopefully we've got him doing odd jobs to earn his keep.

Rose is a good player other than not being able to tackle, head the ball, dribble or shoot.

 

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Rose simply wasn't a good enough footballer for this level.  I did appreciate what he did though defensively.

Freed up wage. Ticks my box. 

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5 minutes ago, steelboy said:

George Newell is so far out the picture he can't even make a bin list. Hopefully we've got him doing odd jobs to earn his keep.

Rose is a good player other than not being able to tackle, head the ball, dribble or shoot.

 

Forgot about Newell which says it all really! Aye, add him to the list!

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Andy Rose will be the sort of player we miss when he is gone. Not flashy or over endowed with talent, but happy to do the necessary donkey work and play his part in the team. He has done his bitwhile with us and good luck to him back in MLS. I doubt there would be any fee given we are letting him go under a “ gentleman’s agreement” that he could return to America if he got a genuine offer to do so.

I suppose the only issue is, can we play him up until the 1st January? If injury would scupper his move, it might put the player in a difficult position.

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