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Andy_P

The Small-Medium Rebuild 2018'19

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I can see the arguments for and against Ciftci. With our resources, to bring in real quality we have to take risks. We can either pluck guys from obscurity who may be off the radar of other clubs, or try to turn around the fortunes of a player who has fallen away.

My questions are what would make our club the one to successfully get something out of him?  Will he apply himself to the level we need if he has the comfort of another 2 year deal? Is the upside worth the risk?

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13 hours ago, star sail said:

We are talking about one single game.... For me he deserves our support and that some are looking for him to be cast out after a poor cup final performance is a bit disappointing. 

Its more than a single performance.  In any event its not what you or I think but what the management team thinks.  I have my thoughts on that but I'll quote Captain Oats from Pie and Bovril who has a similar view to me but can express it far more eloquently.  Hope thats ok Captain. 

"Reading between the lines of Robinson's "we need more energy, more pace and maybe a little bit more ownership of the game in the middle of the park" statement then it's difficult not to feel that's laid squarely at McHugh's door.

We've just signed Rose and Grimshaw for an additional year each, Campbell's signed up to 2021. By process of elimination it seems that if he's talking about improving in the middle of the park then he's looking at McHugh and Bigi's area of midfield. The question for me is whether that means moving contracted players on or not. It seems unlikely we're going be piling more midfielders into the squad without someone moving on.

I'm a fan of a lot of what McHugh does in terms of breaking up play, interceptions, winning headers etc but at the same time the number of times he's caught on the ball or gives away possession in the middle of the park is absolutely terrifying. It's the one position we absolutely need to upgrade. Bigi seems to have the composure and technical ability Robinson's after but not the physicality while McHugh has the physicality but not the composure.

Either way a player in that position who could dominate and dictate tempo would be huge for us."

From his comments Robinson is clearly looking to upgrade central midfield. 

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50 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Why would we sign Ciftci when he couldn't be bothered to get fit between January and May?

Give him a contract and he'll just take the piss like he has for the last three years. 

He was offered to us on a plate and of low cost. Fitness doubts are well recorded throughout his career especially in Scotland. A maverick, we played to his strengths in last match and reaped reward. Can we replicate that regularly enough? Remains to be seen. But, for the life of me, can't see why genuine talent and creativity is often disregarded amongst some on here.

Who would you advise Robinson to utilise his budget on in a similar role?

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I think Ciftci would be a good signing , and surely after having him  for 6 months we've been able tae asses whether he can do a job for us. 

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I don't have agents sending me lists of available players or a head of recruitment so obviously i can't come up with names.

I'd stay well clear of Ciftci though. If he had any intention of getting his career back on track he would have been working hard off the park over the past few months but it's clear he hasn't. 

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42 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

He was offered to us on a plate and of low cost. Fitness doubts are well recorded throughout his career especially in Scotland. A maverick, we played to his strengths in last match and reaped reward. Can we replicate that regularly enough? Remains to be seen. But, for the life of me, can't see why genuine talent and creativity is often disregarded amongst some on here.

Who would you advise Robinson to utilise his budget on in a similar role?

I get where you're coming from...hes a maverick, and on his day can be great to watch, but those days are few and far between, while his fitness doubts are a big, big worry, especially in a smallish squad like ours, where we need everyone at 100% to have a chance of competing.

 

I dont know who else is out there, though I'm sure Robinson does, and if Ciftci is as good as we can get, then so be it. 

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If we were able to get Ciftci and O,Halloran fir free we would be getting £2,000,000 of talent who have went backwards recently ,but a pre season with Robbo might make all the difference. To me as long as wages affordable it’s worth the risk .

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On the subject of Cadden, I think we should be fair to the boy and sell him in the summer.

Firstly, whilst he has always given 100%, I believe that he has not progressed by our need to play him at wing back (he is not a natural defender and cannot head the ball).  Unless Robinson decides to play 4-4-2 with Cadden on the right of midfield or 4-3-3 as we played in the second half on Saturday, we will not get the best out of him.  Ultimately we may see the loss of a prize asset and see one of our finest  talent not fulfill their potential.

Secondly, he will be mixing with players on the Scotland trip of most of whom will be of no better talent the him but all of which will be earning vastly more which will come out as the players socialise.  On return I suspect this plus the influence of his snake oil salesman (= agent) will push for a move.

On the assumption that he will get a cap at some point over the two games, the best outcome for both club and player would be a big money transfer

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Surprised at the Nadir chat. From Robinson's interview I took from it that we wouldn't be offering him anything because of his fitness. I presume now what he meant was that he wants a pre-season with him and is offering him a deal. I'm not convinced he is the striker we need but if he is going to come in on a fairly standard wage I can understand it.

I'm not as anti-Nadir as some but I genuinely do think he is a lazy type of player regardless of how fit he is. I don't he willl ever play the way the likes of Bowman etc plays and perhaps the way Robbo wants us to play but could be a more useful different option this season if fit.

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Like most I have mixed feelings about Ciftci.  Clearly a talented footballer but does appear to lack application a lot of the time.  He probably did better with us than I expected but then I had low expectations.  A fully fit and focussed Ciftci would be a great addition to a team with our budget and resources. The huge Q is will he be either fully fit or focused.  I guess it depends who else we are after and what they offer v Ciftci.

Kenny Miller.  I thought he was and is quite pacy.  As stated he knows where the goal is and probably has a year or two left in top league.  I would take him but very much doubt we could afford him in any case.

O'Halloran is the one I would like out of all 3, but like Miller not sure we could afford him, although surely we could match or better St Johnstone who would also be after him as would Dundee and some teams down south.  Of course he has a year left at Rangers, so unless they come to an agreement it is a moot point unless he is available on loan.

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1 minute ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

O'Halloran is the one I would like out of all 3, but like Miller not sure we could afford him, although surely we could match or better St Johnstone who would also be after him as would Dundee and some teams down south.  Of course he has a year left at Rangers, so unless they come to an agreement it is a moot point unless he is available on loan.

He has 2 years left on his deal at Rangers.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/michael-ohalloran/profil/spieler/125158

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Even less likely then.  Would also expect Gerrard to have a look at him.  Although after this presence at the Cup final who knows.  

Interesting website - I have not looked before.  Seem to have VERY conservative estimate of our players worth......Carson at 250k Euros ! Hope we get a bit more than that.

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2 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Even less likely then.  Would also expect Gerrard to have a look at him.  Although after this presence at the Cup final who knows.  

Interesting website - I have not looked before.  Seem to have VERY conservative estimate of our players worth......Carson at 250k Euros ! Hope we get a bit more than that.

There's a lot of that website is absolute nonsense especially the valuations and they've been known to get the contract expiries wrong but in this case it's correct.

Here's the Record story that announced the deal: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-complete-signing-michael-ohalloran-7288058

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1 hour ago, steelboy said:

I don't have agents sending me lists of available players or a head of recruitment so obviously i can't come up with names.

I'd stay well clear of Ciftci though. If he had any intention of getting his career back on track he would have been working hard off the park over the past few months but it's clear he hasn't. 

If he had we wouldn't have a chance in getting him. In some ways im glad its taken him and us 6months to work each other out, I think if we sign him we will be to the benefit of that in the long run

 

 

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O'Halloran is clearly trying to engineer a pay off from Ibrox.

With Ciftci it's not just about preseason you need to trust him to sort his diet as well. 

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I think with a good pre-season a fit Ciftci could be a good signing.

I think he's also the type of player that needs to fit in and feel part of things.

Going by the club videos he seemed pretty happy with us, laughing and joking etc which I think most people were surprised at.

Undoubtably he has talent. Can we unlock it?

 

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At Dundee United (where he had his best form) he was one of their star players and was looking for a big money move. At Celtic he was neither of those things, probably got scunnered at lack of game time and was just happy to pick up a good wage.

I reckon if he were to move to us he’d be enjoying his football again and looking for another big move. That’s probably what Robinson would tell him and I’m sure he’d help him to do that.

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29 minutes ago, steelboy said:

With Ciftci it's not just about preseason you need to trust him to sort his diet as well. 

Is that another player of ours been spotted ordering chips instead of mashed potato in Nandos? Shocking. 

I'm curious as to where you get information on his diet and application. I don't know Ciftcis injury history with us, but I highly doubt Robinson would sign anyone who isn't applying themselves. That goes against everything Robinson is trying to do here, which is all about senior pros leading by example and creating an 'in it together' culture.

Unless you are 'in the know', then I'll trust the managers judgement here. 

 

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Hopefully the same place he got it about Michael Higdon, used to call him fat all the time too...

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Ciftci is silky as fuck. Knock a few pounds off him and he will tear defences in the SPL a new arsehole. Some of the stuff he was doing against Hamilton was outrageous and to be honest thats what I want to pay to watch. His rabona pass in the middle of the park against Accies was one of my highlights of the season.

 

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I am sorry but I thought we were bringing players that we could sell on and I don't think Ciftci will fall into that category, cannot see a queue of clubs wanting him to tell you the truth, he did have a good game against Hamilton, but I think even Jacob Blythe would have had a decent game against the Accies defence on that day. 

If we do sign him I will certainly support him in every way and would love to proved wrong

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10 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:

I am sorry but I thought we were bringing players that we could sell on and I don't think Ciftci will fall into that category.

That can't work everytime though. Nadir is 26 years old, we are in a position to sign him as Celtic are paying him off. If he has one good season with us then there is a chance a Championship side might sign him for £500K . Or he might just stay with us for 3 seasons and get double figures each time. I have seen enough this season to confince me he is a really good player and he also seems to be really happy at Motherwell. 

He can eat as many Kebabs as he wants, as long as he continues to nutmeg three accies payers in a row then knock it into the pokey.

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4 hours ago, CoF said:

 

I'm curious as to where you get information on his diet and application.

 

Why do you think he isn't fit? The guy was  training with our first team for months and isn't any fitter than when he got there.

If he is doing all the training with the club that the other players do then he must be doing something wrong away from the club.

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4 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Why do you think he isn't fit? The guy was  training with our first team for months and isn't any fitter than when he got there.

If he is doing all the training with the club that the other players do then he must be doing something wrong away from the club.

Makes you wonder why we bother with a pre-season. 

If you can't see that he was fitter in his last game than in his first, you need to take off your FatHigdon specs.

 

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