2018’19 Game 14: Livingston (A) Saturday 1st December 2018

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

I don't think there is a single Motherwell fan was thinking at 2.30pm yesterday that Robinson had it all wrong. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Who would be a football manager? 

I'll hold my hand up and say I was maybe the single one.  Yes, hindsight is wonderful thing  and I had no idea just how bad we were going to be but I had my reservations.

What could we have done differently?  Quite a lot actually.

Keeper: no problem with Gillespie and he didn't let us down, despite being given no protection.

Defence:  limited options.  Donnelly in for Maguire?  Debatable at best.  

Midfield:  my biggest grouse.  Playing a physical, streetwise team like Livingston on their own patch on a plastic pitch set up for a midfield battle? Safety first approach in my view. Campbell needs an extended rest badly and, injuries apart, I wouldn't play him again until after the winter break.  Andy Rose would have given us more physical presence and badly needed height. A Turnbull/Bigirimana partnership is one which I'd be very cautious  about ever using again.  Both are creative players who can't defend (this was evident even in the Aberdeen game) although Turnbull is a young player who has a lot to learn and he will do. As Pepper says above Bigi's defending was woeful yesterday and lost men on umpteen occasions.  If we're going to be better than the opposition and win the possession battle then yes play them together otherwise definitely not. Gorrin is a better all round player and a bit stronger.  I would still have started with Turnbull.  Grimshaw? Probably earned his chance but a more physical option would have been Donnelly.  Tait - out of position and Adam Livingston is overdue his chance (not saying he is the messiah by the way).  Midfield is where Robbo got it badly badly wrong.  

Strikers:  Against a huge physical defence then Main and Bowman must start. Johnson is more of a penalty box player.

Tactics wise we were never going to play silky soccer on that pitch.  As Wellwell91 said above we should have prepared for a streetbrawl/midfield slugging match (my words)/hoofball/long ball game.   According to the BBC we lost possesion by 62-38 and thats telling.  You cannot play nice football and score goals if you don't compete and therefore don't have the ball. In Robbo's words we did not earn the right to play.  Most of us knew in advance what to expect from Livingston and they didn't let us down in that respect.   if, as we knew, they'd rely  on long throws and set pieces then, in Jim Gannon's words don't concede avoidable corners, free kicks and throw ins.  Our team selection and tactics depended on us defending well when in the box. In my view if you make an error there thats it.  Instead we should have been set up to stop Livingston in their tracks 40 yards from goal.  

Sorry for the rant but yesterday's debacle was to some extent foreseeable and avoidable.  Just in case our management don't know what to expect in our game at NDP on the 29th - expect much the same type of game.           

[milo]

Robinson said in the press yesterday he fears/expects our “better players” to leave in January?

Which ones would that be?!?!

[Yorkyred]

31 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I'll hold my hand up and say I was maybe the single one.  Yes, hindsight is wonderful thing  and I had no idea just how bad we were going to be but I had my reservations.

What could we have done differently?  Quite a lot actually.

Keeper: no problem with Gillespie and he didn't let us down, despite being given no protection.

Defence:  limited options.  Donnelly in for Maguire?  Debatable at best.  

Midfield:  my biggest grouse.  Playing a physical, streetwise team like Livingston on their own patch on a plastic pitch set up for a midfield battle? Safety first approach in my view. Campbell needs an extended rest badly and, injuries apart, I wouldn't play him again until after the winter break.  Andy Rose would have given us more physical presence and badly needed height. A Turnbull/Bigirimana partnership is one which I'd be very cautious  about ever using again.  Both are creative players who can't defend (this was evident even in the Aberdeen game) although Turnbull is a young player who has a lot to learn and he will do. As Pepper says above Bigi's defending was woeful yesterday and lost men on umpteen occasions.  If we're going to be better than the opposition and win the possession battle then yes play them together otherwise definitely not. Gorrin is a better all round player and a bit stronger.  I would still have started with Turnbull.  Grimshaw? Probably earned his chance but a more physical option would have been Donnelly.  Tait - out of position and Adam Livingston is overdue his chance (not saying he is the messiah by the way).  Midfield is where Robbo got it badly badly wrong.  

Strikers:  Against a huge physical defence then Main and Bowman must start. Johnson is more of a penalty box player.

Tactics wise we were never going to play silky soccer on that pitch.  As Wellwell91 said above we should have prepared for a streetbrawl/midfield slugging match (my words)/hoofball/long ball game.   According to the BBC we lost possesion by 62-38 and thats telling.  You cannot play nice football and score goals if you don't compete and therefore don't have the ball. In Robbo's words we did not earn the right to play.  Most of us knew in advance what to expect from Livingston and they didn't let us down in that respect.   if, as we knew, they'd rely  on long throws and set pieces then, in Jim Gannon's words don't concede avoidable corners, free kicks and throw ins.  Our team selection and tactics depended on us defending well when in the box. In my view if you make an error there thats it.  Instead we should have been set up to stop Livingston in their tracks 40 yards from goal.  

Sorry for the rant but yesterday's debacle was to some extent foreseeable and avoidable.  Just in case our management don't know what to expect in our game at NDP on the 29th - expect much the same type of game.           

The problem is Robinson would have been crucified if he had made those changes after such a good performance against what was a very physical Aberdeen team.  Rose, Gorrin and Bowman in, Grimshaw,  Biggi, Campbell and Johnson dropped. Yes managers have to make decisions but to drop probably  three of our best players from last week would have been some decision and i’m not sure how good that is for the changing room moving forward. We can tinker with formations from the comfort of our living rooms but he has to work with these players all week and keep a good working relationship. 

[Kmcalpin]

13 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

The problem is Robinson would have been crucified if he had made those changes after such a good performance against what was a very physical Aberdeen team.  Rose, Gorrin and Bowman in, Grimshaw,  Biggi and Johnson dropped. Yes managers have to make decisions but to drop probably our three best players from last week would have been some decision and i’m not sure how good that is for the changing room moving forward. We can tinker with formations from the comfort of our living rooms but he has to work with these players all week and keep a good working relationship. 

I take your point Yorky; it isn't easy but thats what the manager is paid for.  Gorrin could justifiably ask why he was dropped after playing reasonably well last week when he came on.  I'm a firm believer in horses for courses and what might work against one team might not work against another.   We're not good enough to play the same way week in week out and say let the opposition worry about us.   On paper the Aberdeen home game and Livingston away game were very different matches as will the Celtic game be next week. 

[Yorkyred]

5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I take your point Yorky; it isn't easy but thats what the manager is paid for.  Gorrin could reasonably ask why he was dropped after playing reasonably well last week when he came on.  I'm a firm believer in horses for courses and what might work against one team might not work against another.   We're not good enough to play the same way week in week out and say let the opposition worry about us.   On paper the Aberdeen home game and Livingston away game were very different matches as will the Celtic game be next week. 

I can’t argue with the reasoning given the opposition and surface, I guess it's one of those where I would not want to be a football manager. Make changes and lose and  you upset both supporters and players and are a complete idiot. Make changes and win and you start off an idiot but 90 minutes later you’re a genius.

[The African]

9 hours ago, milo said:

Robinson said in the press yesterday he fears/expects our “better players” to leave in January?

Which ones would that be?!?!

Do we have any?

Not Carson, illness means he is probably out for the rest of the season.

Cadden? Injured at present, though may sign a pre contract elsewhere.

Turnbull? Too early to tell if he is the real deal. Genuinely think he would do well to stay and take his opportunity to develop at Fir Oark, but it would not be the first time a young player gets his head turned by a more lucrative deal elsewhere. Would not be going in January though.

Anyone else? If we got an offer of any sort, given our model as a “selling” club, we would probably take it. Maybe excluding Campbell, but, as said by others elsewhere, his development has stalled badly and this needs to be addressed.

[DEWELL]

Wouldn't like Tait to leave or Turnbull, Campbell and in flashes Danny Johnson. The rest I couldn't give a hoot if they left.

[prideoflanarkshire]

Does anyone know how the chap is that took unwell outside the ticket office?  He looked in a bad way

[rinkydink]

21 hours ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

Does anyone know how the chap is that took unwell outside the ticket office?  He looked in a bad way

Bumped into him walking his dog on Sunday - he's fine after a couple of hours at St John's Hospital.  Bit embarrassed by it all - told him he was the lucky one in the end, missing out on the 90 mins we endured.