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Robinson... How Do We Think He's Doing ?

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18 hours ago, Yodo said:

How about Donald Jennow he is used to coaching F.nn..s

If that's the answer, I can only assume the question was "How do I make myself look like the most ignorant, sexist and clueless moron that posts on here?"

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Is this something clever that I don't understand or have you just proved yourself to operate at the level that we all thought?
He has proved himself to operate at the level we all thought.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

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It will be interested to see how Dundee do now under JimMcIntyre, there is no doubt that McCann had lost the dressing room according to the rumours, I am also hearing that there is also some rumblings in our dressing room as well, from a pretty good source, but I wouldn't expect anything else the position we are in at the moment.

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23 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:

It will be interested to see how Dundee do now under JimMcIntyre, there is no doubt that McCann had lost the dressing room according to the rumours, I am also hearing that there is also some rumblings in our dressing room as well, from a pretty good source, but I wouldn't expect anything else the position we are in at the moment.

Wouldn't be surprising - as you say, you'd hope/expect there to be disquiet given the current challenges.    Was interesting in recent games to see the amount of answering back to Robinson from players he was criticising on the park, eg Carson gave him both barrels in the Livi game at one point, but there have been a few others at it. 

There were similar rumblings last year, partly around him showing favouritism to certain players at times behind the scenes.  

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3 hours ago, rinkydink said:

There were similar rumblings last year, partly around him showing favouritism to certain players at times behind the scenes.  

When teams hit a poor run of form, there are always rumblings - usually from players trying to abdicate responsibility for not playing well. Suddenly they are all world beaters who'd be winning league titles if they were just given the chance.

(And, of course, managers have players - and types of players - they prefer. That's why different teams play different formations and tactics).

 

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On 10/14/2018 at 9:24 PM, CoF said:

Last season was considered a huge success on and off the pitch and Robinson still has a lot of goodwill in the stands and, I imagine, in the boardroom. I'd be astonished if he was sacked if we lose the next two.

What I imagine it would do however, is put him under some real scrutiny from the board, who might think for the first time that we are genuine relegation candidates. It would probably be the point where the clock starts ticking to turn it around. 

Objectively, I don't think Robinson should be fired now or in the next two matches.

However the problem with Robinson is he has shown absolutely no scope for change, no plan B, no notion of any kind of joined up long term planning and no interest in modern or entertaining football.  It's all been percentage football and that is a problem when your win percentage is hovering just about 20%.

Robinson has to show that going forward we are going to improve and get easier on the eye and if I'm honest I don't think he has it in him and that puts into question just how much longer you stick with him. 

It's not all about the past, a big part of it is the future.  Where is Robinson taking us?  Of course, no one can predict the future but you have to look at trends, form, recurring patterns to try and judge that as best as possible.

The prospect of the rest of this season and potentially a season after that watching the same kind of football that we've watched pretty much for a whole calendar year is pretty depressing, regardless of whether we get relegated or not.

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I agree with that...I'm not OK, with being at this end of the table, but I've put up with it before and I'll put up with it again in the future, as we are a pretty small club in the grand scheme of things. We'll have the odd season, where we climb the table and the odd season where we'll be fighting relegation, but mostly we'll be a middling team, like Kilmarnock or St Johnstone. But, the style of play has me at the absolute end of my tether, to the point that I'm dreading going along tomorrow.  I'm a seasoned-campaigner when it comes to supporting Motherwell, and no doubt I'll do it until I kick the bucket, but any neutral or lapsed fan will take one look at how we play, and run for the hills.

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I thought we would see a change of approach against livingston and it never happened,the performance that day was up there with the worst ive ever seen from a motherwell team,it was that bad,it was actually a step below the hoofball we have had too endure this season.stjohnstone like us are struggling and lost heavily last time out so they should be there for the taking but rather than going for it,I think we will stick too the usual of putting 11 guys on the park in a formation thats failing and hoping something happens.if we go and put in another shocker of a performance at home,then questions really will need too be asked of robinson.

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I haven't been to a league game this season, and I haven't missed it if I'm honest. Don't get me wrong I REALLY miss enjoying going to the football, but it's gotten so dull and boring that I wasn't looking forward to it, and wasn't enjoying it while I was there. As everyone is echoing, that's not tied to results or (relative) success...it's the excitement or entertainment that keeps you going (whether you win or lose), which isn't there.

Would I go to the cinema to see a film that I knew in advance was going to be dull? Course not, and that's less than half the price, and isn't every week. At this time of year when you can add in the cold and wet weather, you need to give people a reason to go...and there just isn't one.

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Agree with the points above. When Robinson took over he had a big task on his hands. We needed to shore up a leaky defence, avoid relegation and rebuild an entire team in the summer.

He achieved all of those and gave us (and himself) the platform to build from.

We are now firmly in phase two, and for me, that should involve tweaking key positions in the team to add a little bit of quality and variation. To some extent it parallels what Tommy McLean had to do the season he took over. Having said that, the only reason McLean was successful was because when we finished bottom of the table, the league's reconstruction saved us from relegation. It took him a number of years to build the team that won the Cup and he was able to sign guys like Bobby Russell and Davie Cooper along the way - but you could see he had a plan. Well, some of us could see that - others were demanding his sacking early on in his tenure.

I doubt Robinson wil be given the same amount of time or money wee Tommy had, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to see incremental improvements here and there. Like ONeils40yarder, I'm not delighted we are near the bottom of the table, but it's a situation I have experienced much more often than sitting in the top 3 or 4.

What I would like to see is a little more football. I have been a critic of the "having to earn the right to play football" approach since day 1. I understand the need to impose yourself on a game, and the fact that games open up in the 2md half. However, for me that doesn't preclude imposing yourself by passing the opposition of the park and sitting in their half of the park. I'm not sure we have the players to do that right now, but we surely have the players to play more attractive football than we did against Livi. It wasn't until Bigi came on that we actually had a player who managed to make passes to his team mates.

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Steve Robinson would have Davie Cooper on the bench as there's parts of his game he need to work on.

If we're still in the game with 15 to go he might bring him on to give us something a little different, but he can't rely on him for 90 mins. He needs to learn to do the ugly side of the game first and Connor Sammon did that brilliantly today, he's the kinda guy that Davie needs to look at in training and say you know what, that's what I need to aspire to if I want to be successful.

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I agree it is about the here and now and more so the future or how it is shaping up. 

But it was not that long ago we had great days in the cup quarter and semi finals.  This is probably what has given Robbo some scope and even with his biggest critics some time. 

But I am also looking to see what and how we address this slump. Make no mistake the next 3 games are VITAL. Failure to take 6 or 7 points will mean we will likely be in the bottom 2 in the very near future given the schedule we have afterwards. 

So come tomorrow if we see a performance and tactics similar to Livi at home then I will join the growing clamour for a change. You could almost accept trying something different for it not to work than the status quo. 

 

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3 hours ago, Al B said:

Steve Robinson would have Davie Cooper on the bench as there's parts of his game he need to work on.

If we're still in the game with 15 to go he might bring him on to give us something a little different, but he can't rely on him for 90 mins. He needs to learn to do the ugly side of the game first and Connor Sammon did that brilliantly today, he's the kinda guy that Davie needs to look at in training and say you know what, that's what I need to aspire to if I want to be successful.

I'm not a fan of Robinson but even he would see the ability in Cooper.  

What Robinson does struggle with is finding a blend with players of slightly more ability and workers. Right now, it seems to be all about the best selection of workers...

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7 hours ago, weeyin said:

To some extent it parallels what Tommy McLean had to do the season he took over. 

As I recall, and I could be wrong here, McLean's first season in charge at Fir Park was spent in the old First Division, which we won to gain promotion to the Premier Division. It was his second year in charge where top league expansion supposedly saved us from the drop. I always felt that the fact that we knew that we were safe from relegation from the middle of the season devalues the claim of some that we should have been relegated. For half the season we really had nothing to play for.

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I don't think our style of play is especially dull, it's just not effective at the moment. I don't see anything wrong with aggressive, direct football - last season was pretty fucking entertaining- as long as it actually works, which it generally hasn't this season.

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56 minutes ago, The African said:

As I recall, and I could be wrong here, McLean's first season in charge at Fir Park was spent in the old First Division, which we won to gain promotion to the Premier Division. It was his second year in charge where top league expansion supposedly saved us from the drop. I always felt that the fact that we knew that we were safe from relegation from the middle of the season devalues the claim of some that we should have been relegated. For half the season we really had nothing to play for.

Aye, I meant his first season in charge at the SPFL.

The "devalue" argument doesn't hold water for me. No relegation meant no pressure to win games, but we were just awful that season reagrdless.

McLean's SPL record was:

  • 9th from 10 (bottom 2 relegated - saved by reconstruction)
  • 8th from 12
  • 8th from 12
  • 9th from 10 (only 1 relegated that season)
  • 6th from 10
  • 6th from 10
  • 10th from 12
  • 9th from 12
  • 3rd from 12

Great last season, great Cup win obviously, but plenty of bottom half league finishes and a few relegation dogfights. First 4 years in particular were spectacularly unspectacular.

But certainly not an unusual run of league form for us.

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"

2 hours ago, weeyin said:

spectacularly unspectacular

LOL forget the flowery language - it was f...n rubbish for much of his tenure - not dissimilar to what we are witnessing at the moment. Jeez there were weekly calls for his head at times and I remember the current proprietor of the 100 Club and his family unveiling a banner "McLean Must Go" - regularly at the front of the Hunter Stand.

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3 hours ago, steelman1991 said:

I remember the current proprietor of the 100 Club and his family unveiling a banner "McLean Must Go" - regularly at the front of the Hunter Stand.

Hope he didn't show his face at the Cup Final.

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6 hours ago, weeyin said:

Aye, I meant his first season in charge at the SPFL.

The "devalue" argument doesn't hold water for me. No relegation meant no pressure to win games, but we were just awful that season reagrdless.

McLean's SPL record was:

  • 9th from 10 (bottom 2 relegated - saved by reconstruction)
  • 8th from 12
  • 8th from 12
  • 9th from 10 (only 1 relegated that season)
  • 6th from 10
  • 6th from 10
  • 10th from 12
  • 9th from 12
  • 3rd from 12

Great last season, great Cup win obviously, but plenty of bottom half league finishes and a few relegation dogfights. First 4 years in particular were spectacularly unspectacular.

But certainly not an unusual run of league form for us.

Cheers for the stats. I would have thought we were a bit better than that. We had some decent players and played some decent stuff. Maybe the league itself was just generally stronger? Or my memory is playing tricks.

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I think a couple of factors were in play. 

First, we ended up with decent players, but that took a number of years to happen. There did seem to be quite a gap in quality between the SPL and the First Division in those days, and the team that won us promotion was a fair bit short of SPL standards. So you are probably correct that the league was also stronger in general. 

Secondly, the cup final win defintely helped erase a lot of the bad memories from earlier in McLean's Motherwell career.

The first few years were definitely pretty poor. I remember those in particular as I was a student during the first half of McLean's tenure and bought a season ticket for the East Terrace with the proceeds from a summer job. The second half of McLean's tenure, I had moved down south for work, so didn't get to enjoy the improvements as much first hand - although I did, of course, make it home for the Cup Final.

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I said after we got put out the cup that we needed 10 points from out next 6 games. So far we have 1 point from 5 with Dundee next. Simply not good enough and we are already being cut adrift of 8th place.

time to go Robbo. The board has to act here and act quickly before its too late. Robbo has lost the plot and from the look of it possibly the dressing room. 

and please please dont go cheap again and replace him with Las!

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Time for Robinson to go I’m afraid. 

The writing was on the wall when the sub standard signings started rolling in and the league cup group game performances did nothing to quell our fears.

Since then it’s been 1 howling performance both collectively and individually after another resulting in us being winless at home and only 1 win in 9 overall all the while persisting with the completely ineffective 352 hoofball.

A blind man could see the team needed some pace in creativity added to the team, not replacing the dross that left with more dross. Most of which has sat in the stand whilst we piss away precious money on Connor Fucking Sammon joining them!

The single worst signing policy approach I’ve ever seen us pursue and in many ways Robinson deserves to pay the ultimate price for thinking this was a good idea.

Whoever on high who signed off on this should probably follow him out the door.

 

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