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Who Stays And Who Goes?

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8 minutes ago, steelboy said:

He's only scored two league goals in two years.

About the same as Crhis Humphrey then (8 goals in 4 years), but not as prolific as Cooper with his 4 goals a season.

Regardless, my point above still stands. He's been instrumental in at least 3 of our last 5 wins.

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28 minutes ago, steelboy said:

He's only scored two league goals in two years.

Cheers...

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28 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

I was thinking this after last night. Frear has his critics but in the five games since Ariyibi arrived, Frear has contributed 2 assists (3 if you include winning a penalty against Dundee) and Ariyibi has none. Not slating Ariyibi here as I think he has offered something but at a time when statistics are used to criticise certain players, feel as if some tend to ignore the contribution of Frear as it perhaps suits an agenda...

yeah this is what I was thinking. I know he's not had a great time but I think everytime he was involved he offered something.

 

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I would have Frear in ahead of Ayiribi at the moment but for next season it would be good to have a fully fit Tanner or another player like him and Hastie who are comfortable coming inside and getting involved rather than a touchline hugger like Frear who can be nullified by a decent full back.

Frear has never really turned up against the better teams in the league but he has a chance to do that in the next run of games.

 

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Absolute ludicrous to think Frear is a better player than Ariyibi. Ariyibi is far superior, faster, more skilful, creates a lot more space for the team, actually works hard going track back. I used to really like Frear but really don’t see the fuss. When have you ever seen Frear beat 3 or 4 players with so much skill and ease. Stats mean nothing except for a goalscorer.

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Just now, supermarv said:

Absolute ludicrous to think Frear is a better player than Ariyibi. Ariyibi is far superior, faster, more skilful, creates a lot more space for the team, actually works hard going track back. I used to really like Frear but really don’t see the fuss. When have you ever seen Frear beat 3 or 4 players with so much skill and ease. Stats mean nothing.

ITKMarv has spoken. No more stats allowed. Use of stats to make justifiable or valid points will from now on be completely disregarded. Thank you.

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5 minutes ago, CSmith said:

ITKMarv has spoken. No more stats allowed. Use of stats to make justifiable or valid points will from now on be completely disregarded. Thank you.

In a sense they do mean nothing but, just look at all the poor records we have brought in and their stats for us have been excellent. Just IMO Ariyibi is a far more classy player for us and to watch aswell, yes Frear can create a few chances or whatever but his all round game is poor, also his stats are pretty poor for us except assists so to judge a winger on goals is pretty poor especially when it’s not his game to score goals. Frear just isn’t cut out for our league tbh. Stats mean nothing is slightly over exaggerated but it all matters on performances. Craig Gordon could have 20+ clean sheets a season but he’s still shit.

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Frear gets plenty of assists, and that’s what we need our wingers to do. He and Ariyibi are different types of player, and both are valuable in different situations. Ideally we need both, but our budget may stand in the way of that. Also, I think a fit Cadden could be considered as the right side of that 3 as well.

factors to consider here are - does Frear want to stay? Can we keep Cadden? Does Ariyibi want to stay? If he does, do we have any chance of making that  happen? 

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36 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Absolute ludicrous to think Frear is a better player than Ariyibi. Ariyibi is far superior, faster, more skilful, creates a lot more space for the team, actually works hard going track back. I used to really like Frear but really don’t see the fuss. When have you ever seen Frear beat 3 or 4 players with so much skill and ease. Stats mean nothing except for a goalscorer.

At no point did I say that Frear was better than Ariyibi. I was only making a point that Ariyibi has (rightly) received a fair bit of praise since his arrival. In that time, Frear has been instrumental in us winning two games (Dundee and last night) in ways that are obvious. Yet he doesn't get the credit. 

Also calling bullshit on the suggestion that Frear doesn't work hard enough for the team. This is a guy who sacrificed himself by playing out of position for the last season and a half if he was selected. 

Not saying Frear would be first name on the teamsheet but I think you're downplaying his contribution massively...

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It is absolutely no coincidence that Elliot Frear is starting to contribute to the team again when he is being allowed to play his natural position. To suggest he is not good enough for this league or that Motherwell can do better, given assists he has contributed in the last 5 games is batshit crazy.

I agree Ariyibi looks a classier player and has been great to watch since he arrived. However, you cant ignore the fact that he drifts in and out of games, cant yet last 90 minutes and most importantly isnt our player. Even if Forest were to let him go, he would have to take a massive cut in wages to sign for us.

I would agree Grimshaw and McHugh should no longer be being considered as first team picks, but they are both very valuable squad players at our level as can be seen from their recent contributions. To suggest we can get better to sit on our bench is fanciful. 

The team is moving in the right direction. Those that need moved on will be. But some of the players being questioned still have much to offer.

 

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I think that the picture regarding next year’s squad is becoming clearer, but that it does depend as much upon what the out of contract players wish to do, as what he club wants to do. It seems pretty obvious that ATS and Newell are going. I would offer new deals to Gorrin, Grimshaw, Main, McHugh and Cadden., on the assumption that not all of them will take up the offer. The players on loan are a different situation. I would love to see us sign up Aldred andthink that we have seen enough in Ariyibi to at least try and get an extension to his loan period. If we manage that, then we may not need Frear.  McCormack would need to get fit and prove himself this season before Iwould consider extending his stay and, while not a hater, Sammon will surely be gone as soon as the loan period is up. The Tanner situation is all dependent on his recovery but, if he passes the necessary physical tests, I would be pleased to see him offered a new deal, both on the grounds that we know he has potential and the moral standpoint of helping an injured employee get back into the game.

I forgot about Mbulu. I would say he has potential so, as long as he is happy to be patient and learn his trade, he is worth another deal.

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Frear is in my opinion a bog standard bottom 6 level winger.  No better, no worse. 

I've stated on many occasions that I felt we played better with Frear in the team than not because he is a winger and gave us width we just didn't have otherwise. 

Now we have two better wingers.  

The new system probably suits Frear better because I always felt previously he was a bit timid about getting forward but with the four at the back he doesn't need to look over his shoulder so much. 

He can be an option off the bench but I don't see him really ever becoming an established first team player and his value over the course of his contract is borderline.  That's how we need to judge players, not on purple patches.

Can he make an impact off the bench - yes.  Has he done that consistently enough? - don't think so.  Can he perform better in the new system - perhaps. 

I'm neither a hater or a proselytizer of Frear but overall though I don't think Frear is crucial to our re-invention.  Campbell comes in and bang an impact. Turnbull comes in and bang, an impact.  Hastie comes in and bang, an impact. Gillespie comes in and bang, an impact.  Frear has kind of floated around the squad and I think that tells you something but I wouldn't load him on the siege catapult like a few others.

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If Gboly goes in the summer is it worth keeping Frear or gambling on someone new?

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34 minutes ago, ropy said:

If Gboly goes in the summer is it worth keeping Frear or gambling on someone new?

Personally I would let Frear go, I think we can find better regardless.

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Frear has been a wee bit unlucky last two years in that the formation didn't suit him. However, he's also 28. So, for me, as a winger at that age, with a bit of a sketchy record, he moves on with our best wishes. 

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Livingstone is a funny one. By the sounds of it, he's been a standout in a strong youth team, so naturally I'd like to see more of him.... yet he no longer seems to have much involvement with the first team. Is he injured just now or just not fancied by Robinson?

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1 hour ago, mfc88 said:

Livingstone is a funny one. By the sounds of it, he's been a standout in a strong youth team, so naturally I'd like to see more of him.... yet he no longer seems to have much involvement with the first team. Is he injured just now or just not fancied by Robinson?

Based on purely nothing more than the odd comment from Robinson, it sounded like the gaffer thought he needed to increase his fitness levels.

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Some varied opinion on players, a good read! 

Worth taking into account that players out of contract might have no interest in resigning and be looking to move on, while also players in contract (i.e. Turnbull, Hastie, Dunne) might have suitors and be part of the model 'need to sell a player'.

I suspect there are underlying matters with Cadden (carrying injury but playing / transfer talk) and Mchugh (captaincy / concussion) that impacted their performances and recent game time. I doubt we could get more qualified replacements from our usual transfer sources and I think we would do great if we could retain both players! Others out of contract also have continued value to the club if we could retain. 

Whilst there has been some eye piercing games to watch, we have stayed in division ( 17/18, 18/19... looks that way) and its down to having better players than 4 or 5 other clubs who are not improving anytime soon. Our gradual introduction of our youth is promising and what most fans want/believe in, but it would be mad for a complete cull. We need some seasoned campaigners to support and bring the youngsters on. 

I trust the club judgement as a whole more than 90% of the short term views splattered in this and other threads on who brings what to the team. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 9:09 PM, weeyin said:

Based on purely nothing more than the odd comment from Robinson, it sounded like the gaffer thought he needed to increase his fitness levels.

The recent comments in the managers interviews about being ready for first team football physically, and mentally, all pointed at Adam methinks. 

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1 hour ago, superward said:

The recent comments in the managers interviews about being ready for first team football physically, and mentally, all pointed at Adam methinks. 

Questionable attitude is what I’ve heard, turning up late for training on a number of occasions is one of the things that has cost him a bit this season (allegedly)

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1 hour ago, dossertillidie said:

Questionable attitude is what I’ve heard, turning up late for training on a number of occasions is one of the things that has cost him a bit this season (allegedly)

I try not get involved in this sort of thing, but have to put you right on this. I don’t know whose told you this, or why they’re saying it, but it’s a downright lie. It’s all the more galling because the opposite is true - he’s actually one of the first, and often the first, one in, arriving early to do extra gym work to build himself up as much as he can. And he’s actually been commended on his attitude, so every aspect of what you’ve been told is as far from the truth as you can get. 

As I say, I try not to say things on this forum in case it is seen by the club as talking out of turn, but I’m not giving away any private behind-the-scenes info here, just setting the record straight. If I were you I’d be asking the person who told you these allegations what their agenda is against him in coming out with outright lies and slurs. 

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10 hours ago, dossertillidie said:

Questionable attitude is what I’ve heard, turning up late for training on a number of occasions is one of the things that has cost him a bit this season (allegedly)

You see this is where it gets out of order along with other lines in the past like Turnbull and Robinson had fallen out. Really this sort of crap should never be posted as the player deserves better. 

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The posting about livingstone seems like a pile of shite to me. In my opinion the reason he’s not playing  is because richard Tait is a better left back than him.

From what I was told livingstone was meant to play against hibs but the manager had a late change of heart and played Tait there instead (and we haven’t looked back). Hopefully he can get loaned out and develop similar to how Hastie has while he was at Alloa 

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Just now, Big Wispy Flossy said:

The posting about livingstone seems like a pile of shite to me. In my opinion the reason he’s not playing  is because richard Tait is a better left back than him.

From what I was told livingstone was meant to play against hibs but the manager had a late change of heart and played Tait there instead (and we haven’t looked back). Hopefully he can get loaned out and develop similar to how Hastie has while he was at Alloa 

Adam Livingston was loaned out last season to East Fife and their supporters that I know rated him. Hopefully he'll get his chance soon, as we're no longer in a relegation scrap. 

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