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Kmcalpin

2019-20 Rebuild

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40 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

saying what he said so publicly was very naive, which is to be expected from someone so young with probably next to no media training. Imagine he came out with that line to appease a rangers support, god help him. 

I must have missed this, what was said?

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Basically that he didn't want to leave Motherwell, he knows hes got a lot to learn and Motherwell is the right place for it and that he wants to get the contract done and dusted. I certainly wouldn't hold him to it, he's a young boy being offered life changing money, enough to turn anyone's head. A rangers support wouldn't be so forgiving.

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The heat on Burrows with the Hastie situation is eased massively because we got Turnbull signed up. 

He’s the player where the compensation we’d have got would be a fraction of the transfer fee we’ll hopefully get this or next summer. 

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Great article by Alan Burrows in the times stating the clubs policy . Fully agree with him on the subjects he covered . It’s always going to be a gamble with young players and theres no way we could have foreseen  the speedy progress made by  Hastie . There’s not may CEO would be willing to come out in the press to justify there actions but Burrows does so in an articulate and    concise way . It’s up to Hastie what he does next . We’ve gave it our best offer . Hopefully the article will clear up a lot of discussion around our transfer policy for our supporters 

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Yes Burrows came across very well in that interview. Interesting development with Hastie. Maybe he'll stay after all.

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30 minutes ago, Mintymac said:

Great article by Alan Burrows in the times stating the clubs policy . Fully agree with him on the subjects he covered . It’s always going to be a gamble with young players and theres no way we could have foreseen  the speedy progress made by  Hastie . There’s not may CEO would be willing to come out in the press to justify there actions but Burrows does so in an articulate and    concise way . It’s up to Hastie what he does next . We’ve gave it our best offer . Hopefully the article will clear up a lot of discussion around our transfer policy for our supporters 

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

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1 hour ago, Neilwell86 said:

Basically that he didn't want to leave Motherwell, he knows hes got a lot to learn and Motherwell is the right place for it and that he wants to get the contract done and dusted. I certainly wouldn't hold him to it, he's a young boy being offered life changing money, enough to turn anyone's head. A rangers support wouldn't be so forgiving.

Yes, basically that.  He didn't want to leave Fir Park and hoped to have a new deal signed with us within a fortnight (of the quote).

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19 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

So fully qualified coaches who see him every day training and playing couldn't predict the kind of impact he made, even the coaches at Alloa were surprised. However "anyone with knowledge could CLEARLY see he had huge quality". Aye right, Mystic Meg. Love these nuggets with clairvoyance who never predicted it on these forums but are happy to come on after the event and pretend it was obvious. There is not one person on this planet including the player himself would have predicted he could have made the impact he did after January. 

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10 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

I'd put Craigan (who managed him every day) and Jim Goodwin - a seasoned professional and respected manager - in the category of people with "knowledge of the game".

(But maybe I'm in the category of "people who have no knowledge of people who have knowledge of the game")

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5 hours ago, superward said:

Alan Burrows giving some quotes re the Hastie situation. No real new news persay. But I'd never considered, maybe stupidly, that we cant actually take the contract offer off the table (I.e. give a deadline to push a decision) or we will lose the compo.

 https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/17581344.motherwell-chief-defends-decision-not-to-offer-long-term-contract-to-rangers-target/

Same story but from the Sun... anyone spot the difference in the article.. I thought I'd missed an announcement :)

Spot the difference

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3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The club's general policy on this is pretty good but there will always be one or two it gets wrong.

The main difference is that for the odd one or two here and there that we get wrong in the Hastie mould we stand to bring in less than we maybe would if he signed a long-term deal, while going down the other route would more than likely see us waste money on players with potential but who don't live up to it.

One approach sees us still make some money most of the time, while the other could see us lose money. 

37 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

What astounds me is that these people with "knowledge of the game" are usually the ones who aren't actually involved at that level in the game, and don't make a living from it. While those who supposedly get it wrong are the ones who are considered good enough to carve a living from it.

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1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

Craigan stated he was suprised, no knowledge of the game ?

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2 hours ago, robsterwood said:

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

Think your missing the point that Burrows is making . 

Could you also put on my lottery numbers this weekend  

 

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2 hours ago, Well Well said:

So fully qualified coaches who see him every day training and playing couldn't predict the kind of impact he made, even the coaches at Alloa were surprised. However "anyone with knowledge could CLEARLY see he had huge quality". Aye right, Mystic Meg. Love these nuggets with clairvoyance who never predicted it on these forums but are happy to come on after the event and pretend it was obvious. There is not one person on this planet including the player himself would have predicted he could have made the impact he did after January. 

Pace strength and composure where attributes shown at and prior to Alloa. Even a 1 year contract could have been offered at that point. Does'nt take a "nugget" to see that. Try to be respectful in posts. Manners cost nothing.

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Reading the article seems to suggest it's cut and dried, we've offered a new contract so if anyone signs Hastie we're entitled to 400 grand development compensation.

Is it as cut and dried as that?  Not really sure how these things work but if it's so black and white why the dispute over the compensation fee when Lewis Ferguson joined Aberdeen after leaving the Accies?

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57 minutes ago, Ped_MFC said:

Reading the article seems to suggest it's cut and dried, we've offered a new contract so if anyone signs Hastie we're entitled to 400 grand development compensation.

Is it as cut and dried as that?  Not really sure how these things work but if it's so black and white why the dispute over the compensation fee when Lewis Ferguson joined Aberdeen after leaving the Accies?

Pretty much. There are pretty formal criteria that contribute to establishing the fee. There are also precedents in that we've received development compensation for former players in similar circumstances: Erwin, Hall etc.

The reason for the dispute between Aberdeen and Accies was Aberdeen thought they could get Ferguson for £80k or something like that and Accies decided to dig their heels in and be difficult because tbh, why not. It's worth being a difficult when Aberdeen were low balling In the end Aberdeen had to pay £238k. In itself that's a bargain of sorts as Ferguson's come good but it's near enough 3x what they thought they'd be paying.

The full details of clauses are pages 55-61 here but the key ones are below:

Quote

F7 If, after the expiry of the term of his Contract of Service a Professional Player, to whom an offer in terms of Rules F5 and F6 has been made which is not accepted by him, is Registered for a new Club in circumstances where Rule F3 applies, then that new Club shall be liable to pay Compensation to the Player's former Club

F8 If Clubs are unable to reach agreement on the amount of Compensation payable then either of the Clubs concerned or the Board shall have the right, at any time, to have any Compensation payable, if any, determined by a Compensation Tribunal.

F9 In the event of the two Clubs concerned not reaching agreement on the amount of any Compensation payable, the new Club must, on the date of Scottish FA Registration or, if later, on the date of any first offer of Compensation, pay to the Player's former Club at least 50% of the highest amount offered or, as the case may be, offered, plus VAT at the standard rate. All offers of Compensation shall be in writing and shall be copied to the Secretary by recorded delivery post when they are sent to the Player’s former Club. In the event that the amount of Compensation ordered to be paid by a Compensation Tribunal is less than the amount previously paid in terms of this Rule F9 or if no Compensation is ordered to be so paid then the Club which has received such payment shall be liable to forthwith repay as a debt the amount overpaid or, where no payment is so ordered to be paid, the amount paid, to the Club which made such payment.

At Tribunal the criteria are as follows:

Quote

F22 The criteria are:-

F22.1 the age of the Player;
F22.2 the amount of any transfer fee or Compensation paid by the Club losing the player’s Scottish FA Registration when acquiring the Scottish FA Registration of the Player;
F22.3 the length of time during which the Club losing the player’s Scottish FA Registration held the Scottish FA Registration of the Player;
F22.4 the terms of the new contract offered to the Player by each of the Clubs;
F22.5 the Player’s playing record in club and international team appearances; and,
F22.6 substantiated interest shown by other clubs in acquiring the services of the Player.

 

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1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Pace strength and composure where attributes shown at and prior to Alloa. Even a 1 year contract could have been offered at that point. Does'nt take a "nugget" to see that. Try to be respectful in posts. Manners cost nothing.

To be fair you have shown less than respect to the whole management and coaching staff at the club who are professionals who make their living from the game when you stated “ anyone with knowledge of the game”. You were always going to get a level of comeback.

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What I find interesting with the two players we've signed on pre-contracts is that they're both from Scottish clubs. Is this a conscious decision to move away from signing players from the English lower leagues and non league? Was trying to think of other players we've signed from other Scottish clubs and other than Fisher, I was thinking you'd have to go back to the summer we signed Vigurs and Lawson...

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3 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

What I find interesting with the two players we've signed on pre-contracts is that they're both from Scottish clubs. Is this a conscious decision to move away from signing players from the English lower leagues and non league? Was trying to think of other players we've signed from other Scottish clubs and other than Fisher, I was thinking you'd have to go back to the summer we signed Vigurs and Lawson...

I'm not sure it's a conscious decision really as much as it's a case og two players the manager liked the look of being available. I could be wrong though.

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4 hours ago, robsterwood said:

Disagree. Anyone with knowledge of the game could clearly see Hastie had huge quality . And statement excuse doesnt account for this. 

You will have the lottery numbers for saturday then i suppose or just last weeks ones.

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Burrows saying he was misquoted as meant had signed up to an age where compensation still due so he’s either signed and not yet announced or he was in fact misquoted time will tell 

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18 minutes ago, wellowell said:

Burrows saying he was misquoted as meant had signed up to an age where compensation still due so he’s either signed and not yet announced or he was in fact misquoted time will tell 

Ah that would make sense if thats the case. The way it's written is a bit misleading. I imagine if he's signed it would have been announced.

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