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Kmcalpin

2019-20 Rebuild

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

If the ref has seen the incident and not taken any action I don't think it can be referred. To quote from an SFA Question and Answer:

The Compliance Officer can only take retropsective action when an "on field incident, or an exceptional part of an on field incident, has been unseen by the match officials."

I'm using Jake Carroll's Livingston case as a baseline, where the referee and/or assistant referee saw the incident at the time and gave him a yellow card.  The Compliance Officer then saw fit to reopen the case and upgrade it to a red. Whats the difference? 

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Believe it the ref agrees they got it wrong then the booking can be upgraded.

But as they make it up as they go along then who knows. 

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54 minutes ago, Donaldo87 said:

Believe it the ref agrees they got it wrong then the booking can be upgraded.

But as they make it up as they go along then who knows. 

They don’t seem to make it up as it goes along. It seems to be based entirely on sportscene highlights package and pundits picking out certain incidents to highlight. Frankly I am amazed nothing more is said or done about this. 

I honestly wonder whether Jake Carolls foul and yellow card would have been looked at had Sportscene not highlighted the incident in slowmo and given their views on it being a straight red. Which it was by the way..

But it is almost VAR in reverse. Not seen or not highlighted = not reviewed. 

Not a conspiracy against Motherwell just a very questionable process that lacks any kind of transparency 

 

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11 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

They don’t seem to make it up as it goes along. It seems to be based entirely on sportscene highlights package and pundits picking out certain incidents to highlight. Frankly I am amazed nothing more is said or done about this. 

I honestly wonder whether Jake Carolls foul and yellow card would have been looked at had Sportscene not highlighted the incident in slowmo and given their views on it being a straight red. Which it was by the way..

But it is almost VAR in reverse. Not seen or not highlighted = not reviewed. 

Not a conspiracy against Motherwell just a very questionable process that lacks any kind of transparency 

 

I agree it lacks transparency, but the whole "just what they show on Sportscene" is well past its sell-by date - by their very nature, those are just the ones you hear most about.

If it was Sportscene only, anybody outside the Premiership could do what they liked with no chance of being disciplined. 

As far as I know there is an official observer at every senior game that is watching the refereeing decisions (and missed decisions) - all without the aid of a camera.

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14 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I agree it lacks transparency, but the whole "just what they show on Sportscene" is well past its sell-by date - by their very nature, those are just the ones you hear most about.

If it was Sportscene only, anybody outside the Premiership could do what they liked with no chance of being disciplined. 

As far as I know there is an official observer at every senior game that is watching the refereeing decisions (and missed decisions) - all without the aid of a camera.

The whole thing is a lottery.  Sportscene certainly plays a part by selecting which incidents to highlight and make an issue of. But incidents they highlight  are not always picked up by the Compliance Officer. From memory a Rangers player being kicked in the head by a Kilmarnock player and a Celtic player (Simunovic?) getting off with a forearm to the face of a Hibs player. 

Observers also have a role to play, but how impartial are they if it is one of their mates officiating ( or in the case of Andrew Dallas ,the son of a mate)?   I would also question whether an observer would be more likely to question an inexperienced referee's judgement rather than that of  a more senior official. The old boy network if you like determining the harshness of any official report.

But out of curiosity.... and I genuinely can't recall any..... can anybody give examples of lower league players being cited for incidents that happened in non televised games. Particularly where a referee issued a yellow card. if there are none or very few in comparison to Premier League referrrals then that would suggest that either there are no violent tackles in those matches or that TV coverage plays a major role in any decisions to refer.

 

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8 minutes ago, dennyc said:

But out of curiosity.... and I genuinely can't recall any..... can anybody give examples of lower league players being cited for incidents that happened in non televised games.

You can find the full list of citations and outcomes at https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/disciplinary-updates/. Certainly if you search for "was not seen", they're pretty much all Premiership games.

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3 hours ago, numpty said:

You can find the full list of citations and outcomes at https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/disciplinary/disciplinary-updates/. Certainly if you search for "was not seen", they're pretty much all Premiership games.

Thanks for the link. Quite revealing.

So under " Was not seen" every incident in the past 18 months deemed worthy of suspension has been SPL and mostly  involving offences against Celtic. Either the lower league referees are eagle eyed/shit hot or the official observer is not doing any referrals. Kind of brings us back to the trial by television angle being supported by hard facts.  Now that the Championship is featured each week on the new BBC channel can we look forward to more citings from those games? Time will tell.

I do think Caroll merited a red card, but so do many other incidents involving players of every team. The difference? Michael Stewart and Steven Thompson bumping their gums on Sportscene....and the teams involved.

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6 hours ago, weeyin said:

If the ref has seen the incident and not taken any action I don't think it can be referred. To quote from an SFA Question and Answer:

The Compliance Officer can only take retropsective action when an "on field incident, or an exceptional part of an on field incident, has been unseen by the match officials."

They took action against Jake Carroll when the ref saw that.

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5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I'm using Jake Carroll's Livingston case as a baseline, where the referee and/or assistant referee saw the incident at the time and gave him a yellow card.  The Compliance Officer then saw fit to reopen the case and upgrade it to a red. Whats the difference? 

ach fuck, just read the final page.

 

As folk says, trial by Sportscene.

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1 hour ago, fizoxy said:

can we go back to making up transfer rumors now? 

Freddie Dindeleux spotted in car park earlier......ahhhhh old ones are the best

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Going to be all over the papers tomorrow now that you’ve leaked that.

If this link works it should show all the out of contract strikers on transfermrkt. I would like us to sign Norbert Balogh and Walter for their names. Norbert is also the tallest in the list.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/spieler/vertragslosespieler/statistik/1/plus//galerie/0?ausrichtung=Sturm&spielerposition_id=14&land_id=alle&altersklasse=&wettbewerb_id=alle&seit=2019&yt0=Show

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Us and kilmarnock are after jack hendry according to tomorrows sun.

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It’s the sun, so I’m guessing it is ours and killies turn to be drawn from the rumor box.

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I said at the end of last season we needed two centre backs in.

If we want to improve Dunne and Hartley aren't good enough, end of story.

 

 

 

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Wouldn't be surprised to see Hartley leave this window to seek game time. So the Hendry interest might not be that far off the mark to plug a gap and challenge Dunne. That's on the assumption Robinson doesn't think Devine is ready for that and MaGuire is earmarked for defensive mid.

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Celtic fan told me Jack Hendry is by far the Worst centre half he's ever seen. Yes thought Robinson would be interested in him.

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57 minutes ago, DEWELL said:

Celtic fan told me Jack Hendry is by far the Worst centre half he's ever seen. Yes thought Robinson would be interested in him.

We haven't even signed him and he is getting pelters. Why do we do this?

I seem to remember Bury fans thought Tom Aldred was the worst centre back of all time and he turned out not too bad.

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1 hour ago, DEWELL said:

Celtic fan told me Jack Hendry is by far the Worst centre half he's ever seen. Yes thought Robinson would be interested in him.

Didn't he do very well for Dundee? I recall him being touted as a quality player in the making. Maybe the move to Celtic was just too much for him? 

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I doubt he is signing Hendry to replace Dunne in the team. If we bring in Hendry then we'll be back to 3-5-2 faster than you can say Earn The Right to Play.

Hendry on his own merits would be a decent signing. Young, Scottish, athletic and the potential to improve. I'd rather have a centre forward though.

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I thought Hendry looked quite good at Dundee. Didnt think he was good enough to make it at Celtic, also was ridiculous he got called up to the Scotland squad. But, I think he would be fine at our level. (Puts tin hat on)

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4 hours ago, DEWELL said:

Celtic fan told me Jack Hendry is by far the Worst centre half he's ever seen. Yes thought Robinson would be interested in

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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50 minutes ago, superward said:

I thought Hendry looked quite good at Dundee. Didnt think he was good enough to make it at Celtic, also was ridiculous he got called up to the Scotland squad. But, I think he would be fine at our level. (Puts tin hat on)

Same here plus he knows the Scottish game so a better option than yet another unknown quantity from down south.

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