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2019-20 Rebuild

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17 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Weird one that we’ve not signed anyone before the squad fly out to Tenerife tomorrow. May be 1 or 2 who turn up there... can see us bringing in between 3-5 players this window.

I’d be surprised at ‘may be 1 or 2 who turn up there...’ Given places on the trip are limited. Mr Robinson describing how we manage that recently.

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30 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Weird one that we’ve not signed anyone before the squad fly out to Tenerife tomorrow. May be 1 or 2 who turn up there... can see us bringing in between 3-5 players this window.

Maybe have a few "trialists" for a week to see what they have to offer?

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I expect 1, maybe 2 incoming.

Other than the obvious budgetary considerations, I don't see a need for more than that as we seem to be pretty well covered across the board.

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I’m more worried about who we might loose. Team doing well attracting attention to perhaps some other individuals as well as Scott. 

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4 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I have absolutely no issue with players doing whats best for themselves. We would all do the same. But sometimes being patient and not taking the first offer that comes your way can be more fruitful in the longer term. Look at John McGinn or even Andy Robertson. Moved to clubs in Scotland where they could develop and would get guaranteed first team games. Within 2-3 seasons they were in the Premiership earning megabucks. By all accounts James has the talent. It would be fantastic if he could develop and emulate those names.

Aye, but Robertson and McGinn are more the exception than the rule I think. Players like Scott will be all too aware that all it takes is a slight dip in form for those lucrative offers to stop coming, and he's left behind. Players quickly move from being a "young prospect" to just being a player who's found their level.

Let's be honest, unless his ability is nowhere near where is being touted, he'd undoubtedly go down south and even come back in three years or so a better player. The level of competition down there automatically means you're upping your game. 

If he's good enough to bounce around between Championship/League One level he'll make a very good living for himself. 

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I'm not saying it can't be done (although McGinn had nearly 200 first team appearances under his belt before he moved south), just that it's very rare - and in the case of Motherwell youngsters, unheard of. Scott isn't consistent enough to get a regular start in our team right now and as Robinson pointed out, needs to learn how to use his size better (and score more goals). No doubt he has the potential, but that's as much as you can say.

It's changed days when guys like Joe Jordan, Steve Nicol, Alan Hansen, Steve Clarke, Andy Gray, Pat Nevin etc. would move from Morton, Ayr Utd, Partick Thistle, St Mirren, Dundee Utd or Clyde to make a quick impact at top English clubs.

Ian St John was probably the last one from Fir Park to do that!

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10 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I'm not saying it can't be done (although McGinn had nearly 200 first team appearances under his belt before he moved south), just that it's very rare - and in the case of Motherwell youngsters, unheard of. Scott isn't consistent enough to get a regular start in our team right now and as Robinson pointed out, needs to learn how to use his size better (and score more goals). No doubt he has the potential, but that's as much as you can say.

It's changed days when guys like Joe Jordan, Steve Nicol, Alan Hansen, Steve Clarke, Andy Gray, Pat Nevin etc. would move from Morton, Ayr Utd, Partick Thistle, St Mirren, Dundee Utd or Clyde to make a quick impact at top English clubs.

Ian St John was probably the last one from Fir Park to do that!

Gary McAllister?

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6 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I'm not saying it can't be done (although McGinn had nearly 200 first team appearances under his belt before he moved south), just that it's very rare - and in the case of Motherwell youngsters, unheard of. Scott isn't consistent enough to get a regular start in our team right now and as Robinson pointed out, needs to learn how to use his size better (and score more goals). No doubt he has the potential, but that's as much as you can say.

There's also the possibility that Scott won't learn how to use his size better, or really improve all that much. Maybe this is as good as he's going to be? Who knows?

I felt the same about Hastie. He had a purple patch for us, but before that period of time he'd been pretty unremarkable from what I'd seen. He didn't seem that prolific at Airdrie or Alloa, so I didn't really see him making much of an impression with us. He was absolutely right to take the money and run when it was offered I think. If he does go on to be pretty anonymous in League One with Rotherham, and eventually sees out his Rangers deal before dropping down a level he'll have made some decent coin.

I'm not aiming any of this at you by the way, it's more the viewpoint of some fans in general. This idea that a player can knock back good money on the basis that they'll improve and see better offers in the future is a risk. The old saying of "strike when the iron is hot" applies more often than not I think, and if you find yourself the subject of transfer offers on the back of some good form, you need to seriously consider it because things can just as quickly go south in a short football career.

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I felt the same about Hastie. He had a purple patch for us, but before that period of time he'd been pretty unremarkable from what I'd seen. He didn't seem that prolific at Airdrie or Alloa, so I didn't really see him making much of an impression with us.

If you watched him in the irn bru cup that season you could tell he had something about him.


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3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Gary McAllister?

That's true. He struggled a bit in his first few seasons at Leicester , but arguably became the most successful youngster to come through our system.

 

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2 hours ago, Ross said:

If you watched him in the irn bru cup that season you could tell he had something about him.

Nah, I didn't really think much of him prior to the purple patch with us, and I would be very surprised if he amounts to much beyond a serviceable SPL player in the future. 

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Sadly it’s not about whether the outgoing players make a success of it or not. In football terms Motherwell pay a pittance. It’s a short career. Any player offered the chance to earn upwards of £5k a week for say 3 years would be mental not to take up such an offer. I’m sure in the real world we would all jump at the chance.  Just calculate how much that equates to.  Strange also how nobody really said anything negative about McKinstrey moving to Leeds, no doubt for much much more than Motherwell were prepared to pay ....even if clearly less than Hastie etc secured. Yet the likes of Hastie, Henegan, Hall and possibly Scott are criticised for taking a similar route. Sometimes it seems to be more about who they join and how they left, rather than the fact they left.

Erwin is mentioned as one who “ clearly got it all wrong”. I’m not sure he would agree with that. His Bank balance certainly should not. Leeds have a well regarded set up which is praised for its youth development and the quality of coaching. If Erwin failed there despite all their expertise, who can say he would have definitely fared better by staying with Motherwell, a Club where the coaching Staff he worked with has changed dramatically and funds are tight. He could well have joined a long list of unfulfilled  potential by staying, but at least he had a go and helped his Bank balance at the same time. And how much less is he likely to be earning at County now than he would be if he had stayed with us? It’s not lack of ambition or lack of confidence as someone on here suggested. It’s the exact opposite, and common sense.

As a Club that appears to still be operating at a loss in the absence of regular, substantial transfer income....per the recent Accounts and the constant reminders that “Well Society Subs are required to ensure the viability of the Club”.......is anyone in any doubt we will jump at any decent offer for any player?  In short it suits Motherwell FC and the player for cash to change hands. Get used to it. From youth level right through to the first team.

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56 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Sadly it’s not about whether the outgoing players make a success of it or not. In football terms Motherwell pay a pittance. It’s a short career. Any player offered the chance to earn upwards of £5k a week for say 3 years would be mental not to take up such an offer. I’m sure in the real world we would all jump at the chance.  Just calculate how much that equates to.  Strange also how nobody really said anything negative about McKinstrey moving to Leeds, no doubt for much much more than Motherwell were prepared to pay ....even if clearly less than Hastie etc secured. Yet the likes of Hastie, Henegan, Hall and possibly Scott are criticised for taking a similar route. Sometimes it seems to be more about who they join and how they left, rather than the fact they left.

Erwin is mentioned as one who “ clearly got it all wrong”. I’m not sure he would agree with that. His Bank balance certainly should not. Leeds have a well regarded set up which is praised for its youth development and the quality of coaching. If Erwin failed there despite all their expertise, who can say he would have definitely fared better by staying with Motherwell, a Club where the coaching Staff he worked with has changed dramatically and funds are tight. He could well have joined a long list of unfulfilled  potential by staying, but at least he had a go and helped his Bank balance at the same time. And how much less is he likely to be earning at County now than he would be if he had stayed with us? It’s not lack of ambition or lack of confidence as someone on here suggested. It’s the exact opposite, and common sense.

As a Club that appears to still be operating at a loss in the absence of regular, substantial transfer income....per the recent Accounts and the constant reminders that “Well Society Subs are required to ensure the viability of the Club”.......is anyone in any doubt we will jump at any decent offer for any player?  In short it suits Motherwell FC and the player for cash to change hands. Get used to it. From youth level right through to the first team.

I dont think anyone is debating the financial sense in a young player moving on. Its whether you will develop better/more quickly as a footballer getting first team games under your belt rather than disappearing into someones development squad and hoping you can swim to the top. Young players like McKinstrey are different in that they moved before they were ready for first team football, so they were changing one youth set up for another. The fact that the majority of our fans never saw him play makes it natural that there isnt the same level of feeling towards him that there were about others. Conversely, you could also argue that someone like Cadden maybe stayed a season too long as his development had  flatlined a little with us. Its a difficult balance to strike. Regardless of what happens, its nice to see the produce of our youth system getting plenty first team exposure. Long may it continue.

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On the face of it, this seems a bit of a strange one.  They've recalled him from loan but have zero intention of playing him?

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/no-wigan-athletic-future-for-forward-1-10185097

Quote

No Wigan Athletic future for forward

Published: 10:50
Updated: 10:51
Monday 06 January 2020

Paul Cook has confirmed Devante Cole has no future with Wigan Athletic.

The 24-year-old striker, who spent the first half of the campaign in Scotland with Motherwell, returned to his parent club during the Christmas period.

But Cook says Cole, who hasn’t started a game for Latics since joining from Fleetwood for a modest fee in January 2018, won’t be staying long.

“He won’t be coming back on board here, no,” revealed the Latics boss.

“Devante’s future is not with the club.

“His contract’s up in the summer, he’s been out on loan, and the reality is it’ll be Devante’s choice in general.

“But there’ll be no playing time for him at Wigan Athletic.”

Cole scored four goals during his 21 appearances for Motherwell.

He played 16 times for Burton of League One during a similar loan spell last term, scoring twice.

 

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1 hour ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

On the face of it, this seems a bit of a strange one.  They've recalled him from loan but have zero intention of playing him?

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/no-wigan-athletic-future-for-forward-1-10185097

 

My guess is that we were paying 50% of his wages and they recalled him to either let him go permanently, or loan him to a club willing to cover his entire wage. 

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2 hours ago, steelboy said:

He might have refused to extend the loan. 

He never seemed that pleased to be here.

I never really thought he was that great to be honest.

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15 hours ago, weeyin said:

That's true. He struggled a bit in his first few seasons at Leicester , but arguably became the most successful youngster to come through our system.

Success wise I would put Brian McClair a baw hair ahead of McAllister considering what he achieved with Celtic and Man Utd.  Although, I concede he was signed from Villa. But he never played any competitive games for them so that hat doesn’t count. Lol Although not directly from our academy , similar to McAllister Motherwell gave him the platform to show bigger clubs what he was capable of.  At their peek both were wonderful players.

We really have given a platform to some decent players over the years and all the people involved should take a bow.

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13 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

Success wise I would put Brian McClair a baw hair ahead of McAllister considering what he achieved with Celtic and Man Utd.  Although, I concede he was signed from Villa. But he never played any competitive games for them so that hat doesn’t count. Lol Although not directly from our academy , similar to McAllister Motherwell gave him the platform to show bigger clubs what he was capable of.  At their peek both were wonderful players.

We really have given a platform to some decent players over the years and all the people involved should take a bow.

I think McAllister was at Manchester United the same way McClair was at Aston Villa

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Aye, I don't consider McLair a product of our youth system - more in the Kipré type category where we gave him a leg-up when he was a bit older.

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3 minutes ago, Winning by Name said:

I think McAllister was at Manchester United the same way McClair was at Aston Villa

I’m sure Motherwell is listed as Gary’s first club, however, McClair’s first club is listed as Villa. 

He started his career at local side Motherwell before moving south of the border to Leicester City at the age of 20.

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1 hour ago, Burn_Broomfield said:

I never really thought he was that great to be honest.

I'm not worried about replacing him but he gave us a balance in attack that was badly missing versus Accies. 

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7 minutes ago, weeyin said:

...we gave him a leg-up when he was a bit older.

They are both pretty much the same age, 55 and 56. Both younger than me! Now that’s scary. 

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