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Livingston vs Motherwell 03/08/2019

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Reading some of the comments on here you would think we had been bullied all day long.  Livingston were just not that physical...that's a myth based on history and the players they had last season, many of which have moved on. In fact, there is a strong case for saying that Gallagher was the most physical player on show, closely followed by Lithgow of Livingston. Also Carroll  was responsible for the only violent tackle in the whole match. So, no,  Livingston were not overly physical. They were just smarter. Aberdeen and Hearts will be much more of a physical challenge.

What Livingston did do was play a style suited to that dreadful pitch. Rarely running with the ball, clearing their lines with no farting around in defence and getting the ball into our box as quickly as possible, often by way of set pieces,  throw ins and goalkeeper clearances. Horrible to watch but depressingly effective. Any attractive  football they did try to play only happened around our penalty area. On the other hand, we stuck to our usual attractive game plan....passing ,probing and driving forward with the ball... which was ineffective on that surface, with our wingers struggling to make an impact. We did not need to be more physical, we just needed to adapt our style to counter the conditions. There is no need to bring in more physical players, the existing ones just need to be a little more aware of what works and what doesn't on a game to game basis.

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Just out of interest, how many artificial pitches are there in the SPFL? Livi, Accies, Killie, any more? I do love the fact that we have gone down the route of producing an excellent playing surface, but you can see why clubs at our level will look at the man made alternative. Gives them an advantage of sorts in every home game and probably saves them a fair bit of money in the medium to long term.

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33 minutes ago, The African said:

Just out of interest, how many artificial pitches are there in the SPFL? Livi, Accies, Killie, any more? I do love the fact that we have gone down the route of producing an excellent playing surface, but you can see why clubs at our level will look at the man made alternative. Gives them an advantage of sorts in every home game and probably saves them a fair bit of money in the medium to long term.

Those 3 in the Premiership. Quite a few more in the lower leagues. Not sure if this is a definitive list, but I came across this:

Airdrieonians  
Alloa Athletic  
Annan Athletic
Clyde 
East Fife  
Edinburgh City 
Falkirk
Forfar Athletic
Hamilton Accies  
Kilmarnock 
Livingston 
Montrose
Queen of the South
Stenhousemuir

Advantage or not (and given the league positions of Accies and Livi last season even that is debatable), it's the fact that players hate playing on them and fans hate watching games on them that should lead to their demise. The smaller clubs that still have grass offer a better spectacle most weeks than the bigger clubs with plastic. I watched the Dunfermline game last Friday and it was miles better than anything I've ever seen on artificial pitches.

It will take a collective action from the fans, the players or the TV companies for things to change - but unfortunately I don't think anything will happen soon.

 

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

Those 3 in the Premiership. Quite a few more in the lower leagues. Not sure if this is a definitive list, but I came across this:

Airdrieonians  
Alloa Athletic  
Annan Athletic
Clyde 
East Fife  
Edinburgh City 
Falkirk
Forfar Athletic
Hamilton Accies  
Kilmarnock 
Livingston 
Montrose
Queen of the South
Stenhousemuir

Advantage or not (and given the league positions of Accies and Livi last season even that is debatable), it's the fact that players hate playing on them and fans hate watching games on them that should lead to their demise. The smaller clubs that still have grass offer a better spectacle most weeks than the bigger clubs with plastic. I watched the Dunfermline game last Friday and it was miles better than anything I've ever seen on artificial pitches.

It will take a collective action from the fans, the players or the TV companies for things to change - but unfortunately I don't think anything will happen soon.

 

Thanks for that. For some reason I thought that St Mirren might have a plastic pitch. It turns out that they are just shite.

The advantage that I think they gain is twofold. Firstly, they will be better suited to playing on the surface as they train and play regularly on it, and secondly, it will be a bit of a leveller against sides with greater ability as this advantage is negated by a surface that takes skill out of the game. It is a bit like the old adage that you should never argue with an idiot as they will drag you down to their level and then beat you as they have much more experience there.

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I think Raith Rovers also went down the artificial route this season and can be added to the list

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I am not having this " The plastic pitch makes us play badly " nonsense, lots of teams will go there and pump Livi, so stop making excuses for us having a bad game and not winning, we have won on the plastic at Hamilton, Kilmarnock, etc so it was a poor team performance at Livi nothing else, but at least we did not lose .

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4 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I am not having this " The plastic pitch makes us play badly " nonsense, lots of teams will go there and pump Livi, so stop making excuses for us having a bad game and not winning, we have won on the plastic at Hamilton, Kilmarnock, etc so it was a poor team performance at Livi nothing else, but at least we did not lose .

The plastic at Livi is much worse than the plastic at Accies. And they obviously prepared it to make it as slow and sticky as possible (which is where the FIFA rules about standards become a mockery).

But don't believe me - Alan Preston in his match report commented that Livi's pitch should not be allowed. And the report from the Herald closes with:

The arid artificial surface held the ball up, undermining Motherwell’s passing game and, in truth, the second half – one fine save by Gillespie from Nicky Devlin apart – was unwatchable. Expect Livingston to feature regularly as the last game on Sportscene.

The stats of all the teams that "pumped Livi" there last season are that they lost 7 at home, 4 of them by one goal. And Gary Holt says it gives them a big advantage - but what he does he know?

 

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4 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I am not having this " The plastic pitch makes us play badly " nonsense, lots of teams will go there and pump Livi, so stop making excuses for us having a bad game and not winning, we have won on the plastic at Hamilton, Kilmarnock, etc so it was a poor team performance at Livi nothing else, but at least we did not lose .

Take a look at home many teams “ pumped “ Livi”at home last season.

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7 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I am not having this " The plastic pitch makes us play badly " nonsense, lots of teams will go there and pump Livi, so stop making excuses for us having a bad game and not winning, we have won on the plastic at Hamilton, Kilmarnock, etc so it was a poor team performance at Livi nothing else, but at least we did not lose .

Most folk are not saying it was the artificial pitch that made us play badly.  It was the tactics we persisted with for most of the game that were the problem.  To play on that particular surface the way it was prepared for Saturday you had to forget about trying to play free flowing football through midfield. The quote from The Herald was spot on. We should have learned our lesson from last season's league match there. in the circumstances a draw was not a poor result but if we had adapted better I think we could have won. 

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What did Jake Carroll do to merit a 2 game ban?

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Just now, GazzyB said:

What did Jake Carroll do to merit a 2 game ban?

He got a special mention by the media pundits

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Have the rules changed? I thought that if You were booked for a chalkenge it couldnt be retrospectively upgraded to a red?

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11 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

What did Jake Carroll do to merit a 2 game ban?

I think planting your studs in someone's thigh is generally deemed unreasonable. 

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9 minutes ago, Shaka said:

Have the rules changed? I thought that if You were booked for a chalkenge it couldnt be retrospectively upgraded to a red?

I think the card colour can be changed but only if the referee admits to making a mistake in his report. 

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On seeing tackle again looked like a red to me so no complaints about ban as long as every red card tackle gets upgraded this season . It’s all about consistency can’t wait to see what happens when it’s an old firm player as 100% certainty someone will get off with 1 this season but doubt they will get yellow upgraded esp if Scott Brown. Seems to be compliance officer concentrates on small teams and ignores the big teams which is why Scottish football is in such a state .

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I think planting your studs in someone's thigh is generally deemed unreasonable. 

Its very much up to the media who decide what incidents to show and what ones to highlight.  The whole system is farcical.  We'll see if this decision sets a standard for the season......I'm not holding my breath.

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1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said:

Its very much up to the media who decide what incidents to show and what ones to highlight.  The whole system is farcical.  

I mean, you could argue that, but he also jumped into Devlin's thigh, so maybe don't do that?

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3 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I mean, you could argue that, but he also jumped into Devlin's thigh, so maybe don't do that?

In isolation, yes.  However I'm unfortunately confident that we, as fans,  will see equally bad challenges/tackles/assaults this season, which the media won't choose to highlight or are ignored by the Compliance Officer.  As Wellowell says above its all about consistency.  For me the disclipinary system has been inconsistent for years now. 

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Any rules you give to a bunch of pesky fallible humans to work with are going to be applied inconsistently, sometimes unfairly, sometimes maliciously, sometimes stupidly pedantically, with conscious and unconscious biases at every turn. Such is life. As thisGraeme said... if in doubt, don't kick somebody.

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Can't argue with ban but I am fed up with this trial by sportscene.  As long as they are consistent throughout the season

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Can't argue with ban but I am fed up with this trial by sportscene.  As long as they are consistent throughout the season

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It's the old "But everybody else was speeding" defence, to which the response is "Aye, but we caught you".

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4 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Can't argue with ban but I am fed up with this trial by sportscene.  As long as they are consistent throughout the season

I don't think the Compliance Officer just works from Sportscene highlights, despite what fans like to think. 

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47 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

So Tait to left back for the Celtic game and grimmy in at RB? 

Yep think that is a certainty......ps.   'What is Grimmy's favourite band?'..............ONE DIRECTION!!!!!.........ba boom

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