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2019/2020 Game 2: Celtic (H) August 10th 12pm Kick off

2019/2020 Game 2: Celtic (H) August 10th 12pm Kick off  

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  1. 1. How will we get on against Celtic?

    • Motherwell win
      16
    • Celtic win
      23
    • Draw
      10

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  • Poll closed on 08/10/2019 at 10:45 AM

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3 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Celtic are shite.

In Europe maybe, in Scotland they are the team to beat a class above the rest of the league, so a whole lot better than us.

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Champions league team my arse.

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Aye Brown's handball would have been ignored as the Bolingoli one.

They have a few very good players but also plenty of duds.

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Cluj sustained for the duration of the match what we were only able to sustain for the first half hour. Throughout that half hour we were by far the better team. We were let down by fitness not ability. Cluj are no Champions League team either , but Petrescu was a determined wee bugger and has clearly imparted that to his team. If we could even have reached half time ahead (and been given a penalty for 2-0) I would have been surprised if Celtic would have beaten us. Balances are tipped by small decisions or incidents. In our case by four poor defensive lapses - as seems to have been the case tonight for Celtic. 

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No real shock, we all know the standard of Scottish  football is very poor, probably around league one level down south outside of the top two. Celtic have the money to purchase players that are Championship/ Lower Premier league level. 

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Last night Celtic‘s defensive frailties were shown up by an average european side. However, out with the other SPFL ‘big’ spender Rangers Celtic will still steam roller the other 10 premiership teams. The race for third and the battle to avoid relegation is the real competition. 

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5 hours ago, underboyleheating said:

The race for third and the battle to avoid relegation is the real competition. 

I agree, this has been the same for over 30 years now with no sign of it changing any time soon

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10 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

I agree, this has been the same for over 30 years now with no sign of it changing any time soon

Really outside Celtic and Rangers there is nothing to be afraid of.

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The big (Captain Obvious) difference between teams like Celtic and ourselves is the quality of the players. And by that I mean, when we made 4 mistakes, they were good enough to score 4 goals. When they make mistakes, we don't capitalise as often.

We can dominate possession, high press, make chances etc. but the deciding factor will always be making those chances count and punishing mistakes. That edge is what Celtic's money can buy to dominate in the Premiership, but is much less of an advantage in Europe.

As an aside, as much as I dislike the OF, I still think it's ridiculous that a team that wins its domestic league is asked to go through qualifying rounds while teams that finish 2nd or 3rd in other leagues are not. The Champions League already provides enough advantages for the big teams without handing them automatic qualifying on the basis of "they have plenty of money already".

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According to a quick Google search Cluj, have an average attendance of 4000.

What is it that allows these teams to come to Glasgow and compete with the old firm when Scottish teams find it nearly impossible? 

Is it training methods,  a strong mentality, a natural ability that Scottish players simply don't have? Surely the Romanian league is not awash with money? 

I have been very critical in the past about the culture surrounding Scottish football. The level of professionalism was at times shocking (Paul Le Guens battle at Rangers being a perfect example) . However things seem to have improved significantly in recent years in this regard and yet we do not seem to be making inroads into the massive gulf between the technical abilities of the Scottish teams against some relatively small teams in other European leagues. The problem cannot be money alone and yet I have no idea what else makes that difference. 

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As per Wikipedia, Cluj were insolvent for a while, but a businessman took them over recently and is funding the club. They also upgraded their stadium about 10 years ago to hold 23,500.

Also according to wikipedia, the Romanian league had a €102 million, 3 year broadcasting deal in 2008, and a new 5 year deal signed in 2014 - no figures listed for that deal, but you have to imagine it's for more. They also have a league sponsor that will be adding money.

Seems that their league starts in mid July, so they have a couple of weeks start on the Scottish teams, but that shouldn't make a huge difference. Of course, countries like Romania have produced some technically gifted players over the years (especially when they were run by ruthless dictators), and that is just as important.

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Apparently the new owner is just a front man for the old owner. The old owner appears to be some kind of gangster. They got knocked out by a team from Luxembourg last year and they weren't actually that good against Celtic.

The main thing that hampers Scottish clubs is the constant rebuilding. If non Old Firm teams could build a side over a few years we do a lot better against them. Ross County will probably benefit from having a settled side this season.

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I miss the days when the Eastern European clubs were just a front for KGB/Stasi agents. 

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1 hour ago, star sail said:

According to a quick Google search Cluj, have an average attendance of 4000.

What is it that allows these teams to come to Glasgow and compete with the old firm when Scottish teams find it nearly impossible? 

Is it training methods,  a strong mentality, a natural ability that Scottish players simply don't have? Surely the Romanian league is not awash with money? 

I have been very critical in the past about the culture surrounding Scottish football. The level of professionalism was at times shocking (Paul Le Guens battle at Rangers being a perfect example) . However things seem to have improved significantly in recent years in this regard and yet we do not seem to be making inroads into the massive gulf between the technical abilities of the Scottish teams against some relatively small teams in other European leagues. The problem cannot be money alone and yet I have no idea what else makes that difference. 

To be fair no club with an average attendance of 4000 should be getting near the old firm, if anyone does you have to question the club with 60,000 attendances. We will never have a squad of players that have the technical ability of of a club with players full of multi million pound players. Certainly not in the modern era.

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41 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The main thing that hampers Scottish clubs is the constant rebuilding. If non Old Firm teams could build a side over a few years we do a lot better against them. Ross County will probably benefit from having a settled side this season.

I suppose that Jake Hastie and David Turnbull are perfect examples of this. I sometimes wonder if it would be too naive to wish that an agreement could be reached whereby the OF did not hoover up  the best players in other Scottish teams. 

Competition would be beneficial to the OF and yet they short sightedly weaken the competition by buying the best players in the league. 

I suppose that the argument would be that if they did not buy these players English clubs would. 

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51 minutes ago, weeyin said:

As per Wikipedia, Cluj were insolvent for a while, but a businessman took them over recently and is funding the club. They also upgraded their stadium about 10 years ago to hold 23,500.

Also according to wikipedia, the Romanian league had a €102 million, 3 year broadcasting deal in 2008, and a new 5 year deal signed in 2014 - no figures listed for that deal, but you have to imagine it's for more. They also have a league sponsor that will be adding money.

Thanks for that. Explains the situation with Cluj  a little more. 

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1 hour ago, star sail said:

 

What is it that allows these teams to come to Glasgow and compete with the old firm when Scottish teams find it nearly impossible?  

An unbiased referee who is not conned by the antics of the crowd

Also Scott Brown is not allowed to referee the game 

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Rondon shouldn't have made it past the first half.  (Not that I'm complaining - but the ref was pretty weak on yellow cards).

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1 hour ago, star sail said:

What is it that allows these teams to come to Glasgow and compete with the old firm when Scottish teams find it nearly impossible?

Strong unbiased refereeing helps make it a bit more competitive

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10 hours ago, star sail said:

I suppose that Jake Hastie and David Turnbull are perfect examples of this. I sometimes wonder if it would be too naive to wish that an agreement could be reached whereby the OF did not hoover up  the best players in other Scottish teams. 

Competition would be beneficial to the OF and yet they short sightedly weaken the competition by buying the best players in the league. 

I suppose that the argument would be that if they did not buy these players English clubs would. 

I don't have the answer to this but in some way clubs like us have to take a risk and offer longer contracts earlier on in the development of players like Turnbull and Hastie. Its a risk though.

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12 hours ago, steelboy said:

The main thing that hampers Scottish clubs is the constant rebuilding. If non Old Firm teams could build a side over a few years we do a lot better against them. Ross County will probably benefit from having a settled side this season.

We've seen this scenario at Fir Park for a good number of years now....remember the Jim Gannon days?  Its now commonplace amongst middle and lower ranking Premiership clubs as budget cuts bite.  I'd say to them welcome to the real world.  One possible exception is St Johnstone who have managed to retain a relatively stable squad although even they are beginning to experience higher rates of turnover. 

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2 hours ago, Winning by Name said:

I don't have the answer to this but in some way clubs like us have to take a risk and offer longer contracts earlier on in the development of players like Turnbull and Hastie. Its a risk though.

It's not a risk worth taking though, Dundee utd are the perfect example of this. Had boys on 5yr contracts, brought in 10m plus on transfers and it still left them riddled with debt. Even now, contracts mean next to nothing the players and agents actually have so much power. If they want away, they will be away. Motherwell as a rule, don't do to badly on that front, from this years pool we lost Hastie, from a group of 5-6 players. The younger boys, Mckinstry and Mcalear we are pretty powerless with, as are most clubs in scotland, Rangers and Celtic included. 

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13 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

To be fair no club with an average attendance of 4000 should be getting near the old firm, if anyone does you have to question the club with 60,000 attendances. We will never have a squad of players that have the technical ability of of a club with players full of multi million pound players. Certainly not in the modern era.

Unfortunately thats nonsense, look at Bournemouth, 12,000 crowds and able to spend £20-30m on players. Attendances dont mean that much when Your TV & Sponsorship deals are amazing / horseshit

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