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2019'20 Game 11: Kilmarnock (H)


Andy_P
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49 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

What’s the difference between the Killie challenge and Gillespie’s challenge on O’Donnel?  The Killie defender slid across Long hit the ball and then Long fell over his legs. ...... I’m thinking that the ref thought the defender did not get the ball. 

Even with a video replay it was difficult to tell if the Killie defender touched the ball. From where the ref is standing, however, I can see the argument for reckless even if he touched the ball. (Reckless, under the new guidelines, of course).

You'd need to ask the ref what he saw, though.

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10 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Strange game where we had so much possession but went nowhere with it. We moved the ball from side to side quite correctly against ten men but again we lack cutting edge up front, oh for a natural goalscorer. I’m another that finds it hard to believe that we are the third highest scorers in the league but the facts don’t lie. Another soft goal in my view sadly and we continue to show frailties at the back, you just never feel secure at a Motherwell game. Killy look a good team to me, very well drilled unit and I would not be surprised to see them finish third in truth. No real stand out performers for me with Long probably nudging it for the amount of work he put in, he still has a lot of improving to do though. Overall not a bad game to be fair.

A very strange game but the critical thing is we won and against close rivals.  I was very impressed by Kilmarnock and although I've seen teams play better when down to 10 men I really can't recall when, try as I might.   As expected they were very well drilled, worked extremely hard off the ball and could break at pace. A feature of their play was the way in which any of our attackers down the wing was faced down by 2 defenders - something I was very envious of.  We enjoyed plenty of possession but really do lack a true number 9 in the box. Someone to take chances and/or provide a focus for the providers.  We also managed the game poorly in the later stages.

We again looked frail and vulnerable down the wings and gave Killie acres of room and all the time they needed; so credit to our centre backs for holding firm but for one calamitous error by Hartley and perhaps Hylton. Its interesting that, despite all our pressure,  Killie managed 3 efforts on target to our 2; Gillespie had a couple of saves to make whilst his counterpart had none.  

I thought our build up was ponderously slow and laboured. Even when Killie were on the attack we were unable to break at pace. By the time we were 40 yards from goal they were confronted by Alessio's schiltrons to repel us.  Liam Polworth looks a decent creative player at Championship level or lower Premiership level but does struggle badly against the better sides.

Some good points though in a Jekyll and Hyde performance. Gillespie looked safe in goal, we had 2 solid central defenders, Carroll looked good in attack (what a cross for "Andy" Cole's goal - Richard Gordon's words); Long had an impressive game and the wingers earned their corn but didn't have the benefit of a target for their work.  We also looked patient when on the offensive, although a bit toothless.  3 points and back in 3rd place. Not a bad evening's work. 

 

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5 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Maybe some of the comments need clearing up here. Killie are a good team with pedigree, yes they started poorly but has been pointed out it took time for their manager who has an impressive CV to get a grip on things, but they should have still easily seen off their Euro opposition.

We were fortunate to get the red card decision as it looked like he got the ball first. O'Donnell's remarkable goalscoring goes on but he was very fortunate that the keeper made a hash of it. Hylton has an uncanny ability for the ball to pinball off two defenders and pop out the other side just nice and into his stride. Long seems to be the exact opposite but let us not ignore his contribution was excellent and remember it took Louis until about this time of year in his first season to find a rich vein of goalscoring form.

Kirk Broadfoot came out in the press and made a hoo-ha about how he was considering doing extra fitness training as the manager was more focused on shape and positioning. That drilling was evident last night.

Surprise surprise, we get the ball to the by-line and whip in a dangerous ball and it pays dividends. It almost paid off in the first half when Hylton's shot was blocked after some cute play in the box, but it came from a run to the by-line. Switching play from side to side 20-25 yards out is not going to get much return when they are so well organised. If you are going to go that, at least try and do so 10 yards further forward inside the box where a stray foot or tug can get you a penalty. Regardless our game is counter attack and when they park the bus after 15 minutes you accept that its not going to be an option (until it was in the last 15 minutes where they tried to get an equaliser).

My criticism is reserved in particular for Seedorf. Again we saw him try to take on one man too many in search of what? Glory? An arrogance he's better than this league? Just beat a man, two if you know it is a cert and play an easy ball, ideally a few yards ahead of the players so he doesn't need to break his stride. If the whole team followed that I think our GD would be at least 4 or 5 better off just now. He particularly got my ire when Killie broke and he ambled back at a half jog despite coming on a few minutes before.

To be fair Robinson criticised both Seedorf and Scott (not by name) in his post match comments but Scott doesn't come anywhere close to the frustration I have for Seedorf and his mindset/attitude. My only criticism of Scott was he didn't make the keeper at least work.

Finally, our centre half paring gives me the same level of confidence as Aldred and Kipre or Martin and McCart did.

O'Donnell didn't score, it was Dom Thomas

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Sportscene's analysis of the red card shows the ref got it spot on. The definitive camera angle is the one from behind the goal and when zoomed in and slowed down it clearly shows Bruce got nothing on the ball and it was in fact Long who clipped it inside.  

Bruce's reaction at the time was actually what convinced me it was the correct decision, you could see he knew he'd screwed up. 

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2 minutes ago, Pepper said:

Sportscene's analysis of the red card shows the ref got it spot on. The definitive camera angle is the one from behind the goal and when zoomed in and slowed down it clearly shows Bruce got nothing on the ball and it was in fact Long who clipped it inside.  

Bruce's reaction at the time was actually what convinced me it was the correct decision, you could see he knew he'd screwed up. 

Really?? I’d have to see it again but i thought he got the ball. Having said that when it happened I was jumping up shouting for a Foul 

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4 hours ago, weeyin said:

If the ref thought it was a foul and a clear goal scoring opportunity, the latest rules say straight red (outside the box). Inside the box it's a pen and yellow. Unless it's a handball that stops a goal, then it's a pen and a red.

(I think).

So I can see why he gave a red - but as I said at the time, not a fan of the rule. Refs should be allowed some leeway and I doubt anyone would have complained about a yellow and a free kick.

it was one of our forwards so how could it be a clear goal scoring opportunity? :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Really?? I’d have to see it again but i thought he got the ball. Having said that when it happened I was jumping up shouting for a Foul 

Even I'll admit there's an angle where it looks a great tackle, but the slow mo is clear as day.

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4 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

What’s the difference between the Killie challenge and Gillespie’s challenge on O’Donnel?  The Killie defender slid across Long hit the ball and then Long fell over his legs. 

Are you talking about the one in the first half in front of the east stand, 

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4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

We again looked frail and vulnerable down the wings and gave Killie acres of room and all the time they needed; so credit to our centre backs for holding firm but for one calamitous error by Hartley and perhaps Hylton. Its interesting that, despite all our pressure,  Killie managed 3 efforts on target to our 2; Gillespie had a couple of saves to make whilst his counterpart had none. 

 

 

2 goals plus efforts from Campbell and Scott all on target, so 4 at a minimum 

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5 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Really?? I’d have to see it again but i thought he got the ball. Having said that when it happened I was jumping up shouting for a Foul 

Ref was bang on. It was actually Long that touched the ball away from the defender just before he was clattered. Sportscene had a camera in exactly the right spot to see it.

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5 hours ago, Pepper said:

Bruce's reaction at the time was actually what convinced me it was the correct decision, you could see he knew he'd screwed up. 

First viewing on the MFC stream I was convinced it was a foul. Their slow-motion actually made it less obvious.

As you say, though, Bruce's reaction seemed to confirm my initial impression.

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13 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

My criticism is reserved in particular for Seedorf. Again we saw him try to take on one man too many in search of what? Glory? An arrogance he's better than this league? Just beat a man, two if you know it is a cert and play an easy ball, ideally a few yards ahead of the players so he doesn't need to break his stride. If the whole team followed that I think our GD would be at least 4 or 5 better off just now. He particularly got my ire when Killie broke and he ambled back at a half jog despite coming on a few minutes before.
 

It's easy to forget Seedorf is only 21 with only a handful of first team appearances. My biggest criticism of Hastie in the first team was his choice on when to pass/cross and when to take on a man. That comes with experience though, and experience earned by playing games.

I doubt it's anything to to with arrogance; suspect it's more to do with wanting to make a difference. Like Robinson said after the game, there are a lot of young players out there who sometimes play too much attacking football instead of doing what is best for the team (and for game management).

Of course, if he doesn't improve his pass selection, then I might need to change my opinion.

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9 hours ago, Pepper said:

Even I'll admit there's an angle where it looks a great tackle, but the slow mo is clear as day.

Even if he took the ball it would have been a shocking tackle.  He lunges (you could get another leg under his back knee), straight leg and studs showing.  It is, by the very definition a shocking attempt at a tackle and I cannot understand why there was even an argument about it. 

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2 hours ago, Wellfan1984 said:

Even if he took the ball it would have been a shocking tackle.  He lunges (you could get another leg under his back knee), straight leg and studs showing.  It is, by the very definition a shocking attempt at a tackle and I cannot understand why there was even an argument about it. 

Football has changed so much....I haven’t seen Sportscne yet but I thought it was a great attempt at a tackle ....don’t know how else he was supposed to try and tackle given the circumstances, just got to take these breaks

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