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Kmcalpin

Inconsistent Referees

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An old chestnut I know, but the inconsistency of referees is really annoying at the moment. Not all poor decisions are game changers admittedly but they do make life harder. A few examples that have been evident recently:

* Switching the direction of throw because we were taking too long at Paisley. I've never heard of this before or since.

* Yellow carding a player for booting the ball away: Long gets booked at Hamilton but I can't recall the last time I saw a referee taking this action despite this happening in almost every game.

* Yellow carding a keeper for time wasting ie Gillespie yesterday.  Far worse example have gone unpunished and this happens very rarely. 

* Pulling up players for stealing yards at throw ins: completely random application by referees.

* Foul throws: occur in almost every game but once in a blue moon does the referee take action and then at random.

You'd think the SFA would issue strong consistent guidelines to cover these situations, but if they do they're never implemented except completely randomly.

Rant over.  

 

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The keeper’s yellow was strange, he checked his run and was booked, didn’t see a previous warning, didn’t think we were trying to slow the game down.

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19 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

An old chestnut I know, but the inconsistency of referees is really annoying at the moment. Not all poor decisions are game changers admittedly but they do make life harder. A few examples that have been evident recently:

* Switching the direction of throw because we were taking too long at Paisley. I've never heard of this before or since.

* Yellow carding a player for booting the ball away: Long gets booked at Hamilton but I can't recall the last time I saw a referee taking this action despite this happening in almost every game.

* Yellow carding a keeper for time wasting ie Gillespie yesterday.  Far worse example have gone unpunished and this happens very rarely. 

* Pulling up players for stealing yards at throw ins: completely random application by referees.

* Foul throws: occur in almost every game but once in a blue moon does the referee take action and then at random.

You'd think the SFA would issue strong consistent guidelines to cover these situations, but if they they're never implemented except completely randomly.

Rant over.  

 

Throw-in switch unknown to me too; kicking ball away/blocking quick free-kick   happens regularly w/o sanction; g/k timewasting if consistently applied would mean teams like Ross County/Accies/ICT/Livvy would end up with g/k suspensions; stealing yards at throw ins/foul throws or "shies" as I call them, much to the amusement of my younger neighbours in the POD, always get me going too.

Rant understood.

Having seen the highlights, I thought the tackle on Aarons was dangerous and could easily have been a sending off.

But it wasn't. No doubt Darren Broadfoot can explain all, eventually.

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1 hour ago, ropy said:

The keeper’s yellow was strange, he checked his run and was booked, didn’t see a previous warning, didn’t think we were trying to slow the game down.

The Accies keeper took even longer to launch one from a free kick for offside in the 2nd half

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My main problem with refereeing in Scotland is the ugly sisters only get "the established" referees ,whilst we get the new boys/FANNIES

Yesterday's ref Colin Steven has progressed through league 2/1 then the championship since 2014

his first premiership game was our last game of last season at St Johnstone......(soft penalty awarded against us and missed blatant hand ball/ pen and booked Aribiyi for his protest)

He has been in charge of 8 premiership games this season,but deemed not good enough to ref any of the ugly sisters games

the ref on Tuesday Gavin Duncan has a similar track record...has been in charge of 14 premiership games over the last 3 season.......again not good enough to grace any old firm games

do the rules change when the ugly sisters play ????? ( how naive am I) just don't get if they are good enough for us why not the old firm

The inconsistencies again are a major concern and the debacle over the simulation Keatings incident just shows how tinpot we really are 

whats the answer......... Fucked if I know ........it must be fucked when a an old firm manager is claiming the refs are biased against them !!!!

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I watch a lot of the English games (EPL and lower leagues) and the main difference in refereeing there is the refs get it wrong, then 2 minutes later VAR gets it even more wrong.

 

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1 hour ago, siebsbarmyarmy said:

The tackle on Rolando is a straight red. No denying at all. Utter horror tackle and gets worse every time you see it.

It looked horrific. Even more annoying that Long (correctly) gets booked for kicking the ball away and the Accies player gets the same punishment for a tackle that could have crocked Aarons.

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From the highlights that challenge on Aarons looked like a red. Maybe he’ll get the retroactive treatment like Carroll did (if someone chooses to watch the video). 

Booking Gillespie at the first sign of time wasting was weird considering the game was at 0-0 and there was still a fair bit of time to go. We’ve seen so many teams do this and milk it until the ref finally books someone 3 minutes into injury time, so this was the other extreme. 


Then we have the joke of Gallagher getting booked for trying to get the ref to implement the simplest of fucking rules.

I’d summarize that our refs are just plain shite. There may be reasons for that, but the result is still the same.

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Steven is an inexperienced Ref at top flight level, I did notice however that the 4th official was Bobby Madden. I wonder how much advice older heads like Madden offer from the touchline to the newer guys during games.

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Long was correctly booked for kicking the ball away. It was blatantly obvious it was going to happen I felt enough time had passed that the ref was 100% correct in booking him.

 

I have no issues with the ref here.

On the other stuff

14 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

 

* Switching the direction of throw because we were taking too long at Paisley. I've never heard of this before or since.

* Yellow carding a keeper for time wasting ie Gillespie yesterday.  Far worse example have gone unpunished and this happens very rarely. 

* Pulling up players for stealing yards at throw ins: completely random application by referees.

* Foul throws: occur in almost every game but once in a blue moon does the referee take action and then at random.

 

I am pretty sure I have seen us gain from the throw being switched in the past. It may be some sorta Mandelka effect thing I am experiencing but I am sure I saw it happen.

Gilliespie's card was dished out very quickly. Seemed odd.

The yards at throw ins happens a lot and I agree it is very random when it is called out.

Agree on foul throws. Dec Gallagher had a beauty of a foul throw on Saturday and it was not pulled up.

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Long time ago but did we not have a man (Stepover?) sent off at Kilmarnock for taking time over a throw (second yellow)?

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12 hours ago, fizoxy said:

From the highlights that challenge on Aarons looked like a red. Maybe he’ll get the retroactive treatment like Carroll did (if someone chooses to watch the video). 

Booking Gillespie at the first sign of time wasting was weird considering the game was at 0-0 and there was still a fair bit of time to go. We’ve seen so many teams do this and milk it until the ref finally books someone 3 minutes into injury time, so this was the other extreme. 


Then we have the joke of Gallagher getting booked for trying to get the ref to implement the simplest of fucking rules.

I’d summarize that our refs are just plain shite. There may be reasons for that, but the result is still the same.

Thought at the time the challenge on Aarons was a red and that it wasnt given because it was so early in the game, haven't changed my mind since seeing it on TV. Anyone else noticed that the timing in the game bizarrely makes a difference to how referees apply to rules!?

Long was an idiot and as others have said almost looked hell bent on getting himself sent off......However, the yellow for kicking the ball away, whilst correct is just not applied constantly at all. In the 2nd half an Accies played (Gogic I think) took a throw it that he blatantly knew was our ball just to waste time, yet was not carded. 

The Gallagher booking was the one that really got me on Sat. Clearly the ref thought a player with a small nose bleed was unable to walk 2 yards off the pitch for treatment, then yellowed Gallagher for asking him why not,  and finally just to put the tin hat on it, asked the player to leave the pitch before the treatment was finished...…………...

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31 minutes ago, couttsy said:

Thought at the time the challenge on Aarons was a red and that it wasnt given because it was so early in the game, haven't changed my mind since seeing it on TV. Anyone else noticed that the timing in the game bizarrely makes a difference to how referees apply to rules!?

Yes, I'm sure timing is a factor. Its not the first time that I've seen a shocking tackle put in by an Accies player early doors (we're not totally blameless BTW) and escaping with a yellow card when a red is warranted. I'd take the opposite view to the ref in these circumstances. Let the players know early doors that bad tackles will not be tolerated and that would stamp out most of them later on in the game. I'm 100% not against robust tackles but really horrendous ones like Hunt's no way.  Fans pay to watch teams trying to play football not players being wiped out cynically. By letting culprits off lightly the referee encourages niggles and ill feeling to build up and pretty often more trouble follows.  

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Watched the highlights of the Hibs v Livi game and Lyndon Dykes had the most embarrassing dive to try to win a penalty. So much worse than Manzinga's against St Johnstone but no booking. Totally inconsistent. 

Also as others have pointed out Accies players wasted time and stole yards at free kicks and throw ins with no sanctions. The ref on Saturday was the worst one for inconsistency I have seen this season.

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Watching Hibs v Hearts. Good result for us by the way but....

Moaning wee git Naismith on a yellow has committed two further fouls at least one of them a definite yellow. I should let it go but Long sent off at Hamilton was probably deserved and certainly stupid, but I have seen so many fouls akin to his second yellow in the past two weeks with nothing given. Lets hope it evens itself out...

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15 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Watching Hibs v Hearts. Good result for us by the way but....

Moaning wee git Naismith on a yellow has committed two further fouls at least one of them a definite yellow. I should let it go but Long sent off at Hamilton was probably deserved and certainly stupid, but I have seen so many fouls akin to his second yellow in the past two weeks with nothing given. Lets hope it evens itself out...

I watched that last night willing Hearts to win for obvious reasons. And like you I was wanting Naismith booked for his bad tackle because that would have put him out of their next game which is against  us. 

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There was a foul at St Mirren (the away game about 3 months ago, I hold grudges) where Motherwell went to break up the park from a rare St Mirren attack, and the st Mirren player pulled Campbell (?) back by the shirt, ref gave the FK, but no yellow. It was a textbook yellow card offence.

I was pleased to see the StMirren keeper get booked relatively quickly the other night, some keepers are utterly painful to watch with their shithousery. He could rightly be a bit annoyed as I’ve seen much worse go unpunished.

Don’t even start on the different set of rules applied to 2 teams and even more so in fixtures between the two.

Extending that out, I believe there’s a potential for “fixture chaos” post split, with it looking possible Rangers could have 4 away and Celtic 4 at home, if only flipping just 1 fixture would remedy that with minimum impact to the other top 6 teams...

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Long is fast becoming a marked man. Tonight 2 County players booted the ball about 50 yards away after play was stopped. Ref took no action whatsoever. Long booted the ball away tonight and was spoken to by 4th official. Total inconsistency. 

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4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Long is fast becoming a marked man. Tonight 2 County players booted the ball about 50 yards away after play was stopped. Ref took no action whatsoever. Long booted the ball away tonight and was spoken to by 4th official. Total inconsistency. 

If you become a marked man it's usually because you continue a certain behaviour. Cut out kicking the ball away and the problem disappears. 

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To me, the best thing referees can do is to explain the major decisions after the game.

This, to my mind, would bring greater respect between fans and referees. Would also give them the chance to admit mistakes (although this part of my thinking is probably a step too far for refs!)

Once you hear a referees thinking, perhaps they are not as inconsistent as we think. :whistling:

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49 minutes ago, alanos said:

To me, the best thing referees can do is to explain the major decisions after the game.

This, to my mind, would bring greater respect between fans and referees. Would also give them the chance to admit mistakes (although this part of my thinking is probably a step too far for refs!)

Once you hear a referees thinking, perhaps they are not as inconsistent as we think. :whistling:

I may be sceptical but if a referee makes a decision on the field and later having had time to view the action/tackle etc. on television he may realise that he made the wrong call and will then change his reason to matchup with what he has seen on the television replay. 

I agree with the emoji at the end of your last sentence, it's a perfect indication of what both of us think the chances of that happening. 

Another inconsistent decision by the ref last night.  Motherwell were awarded a free kick in the second half and the County player picked up the ball, walked away with it and as Richard Tait tried to knock it out of his hands the County player threw it away. The County player was correctly booked but what action by Tait justified a yellow card? No pushing, shoving, raised fists just a swipe for the ball.

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8 hours ago, weeyin said:

If you become a marked man it's usually because you continue a certain behaviour. Cut out kicking the ball away and the problem disappears. 

The problem is not with Long it's with the referees, if every player who kicked the ball away etc was booked every time by every ref, then players would stop it. But we have the situation week in week out where refs deal with the same scenarios differently .

The standard of refereeing  in Scotland is shocking, but as usual the SFA will do nothing to improve it, VAR wont help either, assuming the league etc can afford to implement it, as you will have some anonymous  and unaccountable SFA employee watching the screen  and calling the shots.

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1 hour ago, alanos said:

To me, the best thing referees can do is to explain the major decisions after the game.

This, to my mind, would bring greater respect between fans and referees. Would also give them the chance to admit mistakes (although this part of my thinking is probably a step too far for refs!)

Once you hear a referees thinking, perhaps they are not as inconsistent as we think. :whistling:

I think for normal fans that could work.

Can imagine for fans of a certain couple of clubs, those words would be dissected and twisted to the nth degree. Absolute can of worms.

Also as others have said, they’re not going to tell you the reason.

”I didn’t have a clue what happened, looked to my assistant and he was none the wiser, so decided it was easiest and safest to just give the decision to Rangers/Celtic”

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Just now, Spiderpig said:

The problem is not with Long it's with the referees, if every player who kicked the ball away etc was booked every time by every ref, then players would stop it. But we have the situation week in week out where refs deal with the same scenarios differently .

Absolutely. For example, I once asked a professional referee what constitutes dissent. He replied that there was no commonly agreed definition and it depended on who the referee and the "culprit" were. 

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