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Season suspended till further notice

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10 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

No reconstruction, Hearts relegation confirmed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53048903

Glad the clubs voted this way.

I'm not against reconstruction. In fact, as I've mentioned on here in other threads, I think the entire Scottish game needs revamped from the ground up. This was not the way to do it, though. It needs some proper planning and innovative thought that is not going to happen in a fortnight.

I can't see Hearts winning any legal battles, but I can see the SPFL agreeing to give the relegated teams some extra cash as compensation; which would be a reasonable compromise.

 

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5 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Good for them...more power to their elbow

I always had a suspicion that ON40Y was in fact Leslie Deans. 

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All Ann Budge is doing is trying to save her own position. It was her bizarre support for Levein and dithering in appointing a new manager which is the overwhelming factor in relegating Hearts.  She even admits it.  
 “We cannot, and will not, sit idly by and watch the decisions made in the past few months further damage Heart of Midlothian Football Club," 

It’s no surprise there was little support for proposals led by her.   Who would trust her judgement in anything related to sporting matters  aside from the self serving financial motives.  

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Although I hope the relegation/reconstruction issue is now over - what if it isn't. Given relegated clubs elsewhere in Europe have won their legal case, what will the scenario be if a court rules Hearts cannot be relegated? Could a court ruling force reconstruction or no relegation?

 

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Hearts were shite last season, worst team in the league , had a terrible manager who had shite players and Ann Budge was clueless at trying to fix it . Total deserve to be relegated. She should admit it was her fault they are in this position. 

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16 minutes ago, gullane said:

Although I hope the relegation/reconstruction issue is now over - what if it isn't. Given relegated clubs elsewhere in Europe have won their legal case, what will the scenario be if a court rules Hearts cannot be relegated? Could a court ruling force reconstruction or no relegation?

 

Those winning legal cases had the decisions made for them, Hearts subject to democratic vote so I’d suspect any ruling would be in SPFL favour. Litigation could take some time, doubt it would stop the season commencing.

 

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17 minutes ago, stv said:

Hearts were shite last season, worst team in the league , had a terrible manager who had shite players and Ann Budge was clueless at trying to fix it . Total deserve to be relegated. She should admit it was her fault they are in this position. 

absolutely baffling

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4 hours ago, gullane said:

Although I hope the relegation/reconstruction issue is now over - what if it isn't. Given relegated clubs elsewhere in Europe have won their legal case, what will the scenario be if a court rules Hearts cannot be relegated? Could a court ruling force reconstruction or no relegation?

 

Struggling to get any real detail on the French ruling but the wording of news reports is that the relegations have been 'suspended' (not cancelled completely) and the French league asked to 're-examine' the format for the 2021/22 season. It seems to be on the basis that there's nothing in the rules which states that the 2021/22 must have a maximum of 20 teams in it 

I'm not sure if the French court are forcing reconstruction or just asking them to look again. The language doesn't sound definitive.

The SPFL could arguably be seen to have thoroughly examined the possibility of reconstruction and put it to a democratic vote. 

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4 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Those winning legal cases had the decisions made for them, Hearts subject to democratic vote so I’d suspect any ruling would be in SPFL favour. Litigation could take some time, doubt it would stop the season commencing.

Pretty much. The a situation in Scotland is a bit different to  that in other countries. If the SPFL were to lose, then it could go to appeal, as could Hearts if they lose.  OTF is right in that a democratic vote is different to an imposed decision. I seem to recall in 2002 (?)  when we stayed in the Premier League due to Falkirk's inability to groundshare that a vote was held on whether Falkirk had a ground sharing agreement in place or not - an open and shut case you'd think.   The matter was taken to a vote however, to avoid the possibility of legal action, I think was said at the time. 

In any event in there not a clause in the SPFL or SFA rules to prevent a member club from taking the organisation to court?

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6 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

What’s baffling about it ????

That anyone can think a team 'deserve' to be relegated despite having 8 games to play and being 4 adrift...I'm no fan of Hearts, in fact I've had a strong dislike for them since I started going in the 80s and Craig Levein being the bawbag that he is, further compounded that dislike....however, we all know that if it was us in their predicament we'd be stamping our feet just the way they are.

 

The whole clusterfuck has been a  total disgrace, but to relegate teams who were I  with more than a chance of survival isn't just morally wrong, its potentially catastrophic for the clubs involved.

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13 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

That anyone can think a team 'deserve' to be relegated despite having 8 games to play and being 4 adrift...I'm no fan of Hearts, in fact I've had a strong dislike for them since I started going in the 80s and Craig Levein being the bawbag that he is, further compounded that dislike....however, we all know that if it was us in their predicament we'd be stamping our feet just the way they are.

 

The whole clusterfuck has been a  total disgrace, but to relegate teams who were I  with more than a chance of survival isn't just morally wrong, its potentially catastrophic for the clubs involved.

Agreed no one deserves to be relegated with 8 games to play

BUT  decision had to be made as to how the season was to be finished                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          …… and before you start,  waiting for all games to be completed on the Park was not an option mainly because of government guidelines and cost.

So if we had to have promotion then we had to have relegation and the clubs decided to invoke PPG to decide final league position.                                                                                                                                              Shite for some but All clubs were aware of the of the consequences of that when they voted

Don’t know how you cannot understand that 

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11 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Agreed no one deserves to be relegated with 8 games to play

BUT  decision had to be made as to how the season was to be finished                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          …… and before you start,  waiting for all games to be completed on the Park was not an option mainly because of government guidelines and cost.

So if we had to have promotion then we had to have relegation and the clubs decided to invoke PPG to decide final league position.                                                                                                                                              Shite for some but All clubs were aware of the of the consequences of that when they voted

Don’t know how you cannot understand that 

We didn't 'have' to have relegation...we could have reconstructed, which was mooted as a very real possibility to force the vote through...actually the less said about the merits of the vote, the better.

 

As for govt guidelines and costs that made it absolutely, so incredibly difficult and impossible, they are managing it in England and they'll manage it here for the new season up here...it was a rushed, botched job and yet again we are making a total harry hunt of ourselves.

 

The spfl is a diagrace of an organisation 

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1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

The spfl is a diagrace of an organisation 

The SPFL is a members club, that everyone is a member of. As has been said umpteen times it's not a fair situation for anyone, but if the executive board decided to overrule the democratic vote of the members then that would make them even more of a shambles. I think Hearts actually voted in favour ending the league as it stood too.

Hearts were in last position because they've been dire all season - that's their fault. Would Ann Budge be quite so vocal if they had not been last? Possibly, but probably not. 

I'm pro-reconstruction, but only if done right and not some half-arsed job that Hearts have tried to guilt everyone else into. Why would someone vote to reduce their own future income and increase the future risk of relegation for themselves, just for that warm, fuzzy feeling of doing the right thing? I'd suggest that any club that votes against their own interest isn't prioritising their own fans interests.

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The other 9 teams in the Championship could all, theoretically, have qualified for a play-off spot. If Hearts win their case should then presumably that means the entire Championship should be promoted just to be fair.

 

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If you're bottom of the league when it finishes playing, you get relegated.

The league finished playing and Hearts were bottom.

Bye.

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1 hour ago, Stu92 said:

The SPFL is a members club, that everyone is a member of. As has been said umpteen times it's not a fair situation for anyone, but if the executive board decided to overrule the democratic vote of the members then that would make them even more of a shambles. I think Hearts actually voted in favour ending the league as it stood too.

Hearts were in last position because they've been dire all season - that's their fault. Would Ann Budge be quite so vocal if they had not been last? Possibly, but probably not. 

I'm pro-reconstruction, but only if done right and not some half-arsed job that Hearts have tried to guilt everyone else into. Why would someone vote to reduce their own future income and increase the future risk of relegation for themselves, just for that warm, fuzzy feeling of doing the right thing? I'd suggest that any club that votes against their own interest isn't prioritising their own fans interests.

The fact that the clubs themselves are in charge of the decision making is one of the biggest flaws in our game...self interest will always take priority over what is right, or what is best for the game as a whole.

 

As I said, with regards to the vote...it was nothing short of pathetic from start to finish, with all sorts of trading and bickering going on...if that's democracy then, we are as well  shot of it.

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13 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

The fact that the clubs themselves are in charge of the decision making is one of the biggest flaws in our game...self interest will always take priority over what is right, or what is best for the game as a whole.

 

As I said, with regards to the vote...it was nothing short of pathetic from start to finish, with all sorts of trading and bickering going on...if that's democracy then, we are as well  shot of it.

The alternative to the members making decisions (democracy, eh? what a scunner) is something like US sports where they have a Commissioner in charge. Take a wee look at the current issue with Major League Baseball where there is a very real chance there won't even be a 2020 season.

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11 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The alternative to the members making decisions (democracy, eh? what a scunner) is something like US sports where they have a Commissioner in charge. Take a wee look at the current issue with Major League Baseball where there is a very real chance there won't even be a 2020 season.

There should be an independent nature about decision making 

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15 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The alternative to the members making decisions (democracy, eh? what a scunner) is something like US sports where they have a Commissioner in charge. Take a wee look at the current issue with Major League Baseball where there is a very real chance there won't even be a 2020 season.

Manfred or Doncaster? My oh my, what a choice.  Thinking about it, I’ll go Manfred.

Is it not the Players Union causing the hold up down WeeYin way? I thought most players and the Authorities wanted to play but the Union and some owners are playing hard to get. Money talks and the fans come a distant second. Just like here come to think of it. 
 

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