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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Game 4 Hibernian (away)

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Well that was a very pleasant surprise. Amazing what can be achieved with players playing in positions they are familiar with. Really enjoyed that. Was a good game to watch.

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On 8/14/2020 at 9:49 AM, weeyin said:

Best way to tackle Hibs is attacking. Given our defensive problems, even more important to be on the front foot for this game.

Like to see what Lang can do at some point as I thought he looked lively in his first outing.

 

On 8/14/2020 at 2:14 PM, Yodo said:

Brilliant idea attack them and allow their 2 wingers to break against our pish full backs   get yer sun hat back on 

Well one of us was right. I'll leave working out who that was as an exercise for the interested reader

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That was much more like the kind of thing!  Still nowhere near as clinical as we could be and there remain weak points in the team but after what had gone before, after Hibs start to the season, what a really encouraging display.

I think most would have anticipated Hibs to have won by a couple and the pressure really heaped on the team going into the derby but we can approach that with a good degree more optimisim than we might otherwise have.

Perhaps still a little too much of the long ball at times, but not so much as in earlier games and if White is to be the focal point perhaps the decision making on when he is best placed to receive a direct ball will improve over time.  I thought he was a bit unlucky (again) with the disallowed goal.  The only impediment to Marciano saving it was his own daft defender that deflected it past him. Seedorf's position, albeit behind the last man, had no bearing on his ability to stop that shot. 

I thought White grew into the game as it progressed.  From being initially constantly giving away fouls he managed to turn it around and begin to draw them from the opposition and for probably the  the first time we began to see the ball stick with him and him bring others into play.  Early days to see if he can build on that.

Other positives from Lang, until he began to run out of steam, O'Donnell likewise too in his first start.

Definitely a performance that can built upon.

 

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Bevis has a Bambi on ice feeling about him When he has the ball at his feet which makes things quite entertaining in a heart sinking sort of way. He’s decent defensively however and clearly improves when playing consistently so it will be a tough call once other players become fit again. 
Otherwise, overall, it was our best performance so far. O’Donnell made a huge difference and without doubt it allowed Gallagher to be more like himself again.
Midfield improved also. O’Hara is starting to look sharper and turnbull is slowly getting back to sharpness. To me, it actually looks like the break has done Campbell the world of good. He looks fresh again which is nice to see.

Going forward, Seedorf isn’t the answer however you can see that neither are the alternatives. Hylton offered nothing when he came on and Hastie looks like he could be shipped back to rangers in January at this rate.   Pumping high balls to white isn’t working either, the guy isn’t capable of holding the ball. He can win flick ons but you need another forward or two playing closer to him for that to be effective but as part of a wide front 3, it’s a completely pointless and thankless task for him. Lang did make a difference and was an improvement on long. The less said about the latter and Watt’s contribution the better...
overall, a step up but we need to start making more chances from open play and Jesus can we please take a morning or two at training and practice corners? The amount of shitey corners we’ve taken in these opening matches is incredible; we don’t even look like threatening. 

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1 hour ago, Kmac said:

Jesus can we please take a morning or two at training and practice corners? 

Patience, there's still anther week of practising throw ins to get through first.

I thought the starting eleven did really well and, despite the occasional individual snafus which were shared around fairly equally, it was a solid performance. The occasional errors were counterbalanced by some moments of actual skill. Other than the general toothlessness up front the only worry is that not one single substitution looked like an improvement.

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2 hours ago, Kmac said:

Bevis has a Bambi on ice feeling about him When he has the ball at his feet which makes things quite entertaining in a heart sinking sort of way. He’s decent defensively however and clearly improves when playing consistently so it will be a tough call once other players become fit again. 
Otherwise, overall, it was our best performance so far. O’Donnell made a huge difference and without doubt it allowed Gallagher to be more like himself again.
Midfield improved also. O’Hara is starting to look sharper and turnbull is slowly getting back to sharpness. To me, it actually looks like the break has done Campbell the world of good. He looks fresh again which is nice to see.

Going forward, Seedorf isn’t the answer however you can see that neither are the alternatives. Hylton offered nothing when he came on and Hastie looks like he could be shipped back to rangers in January at this rate.   Pumping high balls to white isn’t working either, the guy isn’t capable of holding the ball. He can win flick ons but you need another forward or two playing closer to him for that to be effective but as part of a wide front 3, it’s a completely pointless and thankless task for him. Lang did make a difference and was an improvement on long. The less said about the latter and Watt’s contribution the better...
overall, a step up but we need to start making more chances from open play and Jesus can we please take a morning or two at training and practice corners? The amount of shitey corners we’ve taken in these opening matches is incredible; we don’t even look like threatening. 

I totally agree with your points especially the point about our so called wingers Hastie/Hylton/Seedorf they are our weaknesses in my opinion, I know to get a decent one it would cost a lot of money so we have to live with them, so let’s hope SR can improve their performances!!

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20 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

So near yet so VAR  away.

I think the VAR if the SPFL had it the goal would have been awarded. 

Even disregarding the numerous terrible VAR decisions we've seen elsewhere, from all the replays it still looked like a pretty fair decision to me.

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Missed the game so great to hear it was a much improved performance. 

Plenty of comments on the forward line and worry about where the goals will come from. Whether it's due to recruitment or tactics, under Robinson we've never really had a prolific striker - Louis Moult was our last striker to hit more than 7 league goals in a season and he left almost three years ago.  That's a pretty shocking stat, yet it didn't get in the way of a 3rd place finish last season. 

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3 hours ago, CoF said:

Missed the game so great to hear it was a much improved performance. 

Plenty of comments on the forward line and worry about where the goals will come from. Whether it's due to recruitment or tactics, under Robinson we've never really had a prolific striker - Louis Moult was our last striker to hit more than 7 league goals in a season and he left almost three years ago.  That's a pretty shocking stat, yet it didn't get in the way of a 3rd place finish last season. 

I just don’t think the forwards look up to speed with little confidence, personally I thought the comments by Boyd post match were fair. Ok with so many choices they are not all getting game time but they actually look to have gone backwards. Long was improving as the season progressed and although I was never a huge fan I though signing another contract was a real positive, not so sure now in all honesty, same with Hastie, I still can’t help feeling he’s heading for a championship level club. Watt has that reputation of starting off fast at clubs before going backwards and he’s obviously not impressing Robinson in training, there is no way White would have been in the pecking order in front of him before the season kicked off. Lang was knackered after 70 minutes but again he needs game time, he’s going to be fine. Seedorf has actually improved much to my surprise but he’s still not the answer in my view, same with Hylton. White I actually like, he’s rather like Bowman with a good work ethic, puts himself about, and he does have a goal in him, very nice finish for the disallowed goal, however I still feel he was signed as someone coming off the bench and roughing  up tired defences. I like the fact we usually don’t have to rely on one player to score the majority of the goals but that does mean everyone chipping in. I honestly don’t think we are a mile away though, we’ve dominated possession yet again and with better finishing we will be fine, our  pass ratio is right up there and thank goodness midfield was back up to standard. I hope Robinson now sticks with Turnbull/OHara/Campbell in midfield. I would put Lamie who is improving back alongside Gallagher when McGinley  or Carroll are fit and try to hold on to O’Donnell as long as possible because he’s as good a right back as we are ever going to get, given the lack of game time he was very impressive yesterday. That would leave us with a pretty strong back four.

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2 hours ago, numpty said:

Even disregarding the numerous terrible VAR decisions we've seen elsewhere, from all the replays it still looked like a pretty fair decision to me.

 

If Seedorf had backed away from Hanlon we would have a claim but he went across goal. It was definitely offside. 

Robinson seemed to get talked into saying it was a bad decision by the interviewer. 

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I just watched the clip of the “goal” on Twitter.  Not one of the Hibs players even raised an arm. I also think the ref signaled for a goal. So it comes down to the linesman giving the offside and no way can he tell if Seedorf was in the goalies line of site. So I think we were a bit hard done by. 

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To be honest if hibs scored that goal and it was awarded then we would all have been raging.  Up front does concern me.  Lang looks the part but White for all his effort is 28 and played lower level. Watt obviously not doing enough training wise.  Seedorf defo improved but Hastie and Hylton need to improve big time.  Dont know what solution is, maybe another good loan signing

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The linesman decided he was in an offside position but it was the ref who decided he was interfering with play, it had to be that way.  My gut reaction was that it would be given as off side, but it wasn’t, then it was, frustrating.

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1 hour ago, texanwellfan said:

So it comes down to the linesman giving the offside and no way can he tell if Seedorf was in the goalies line of site.

Doesn't matter whether he was or not, to me. If either the defender or the goalkeeper were influenced in any way by Seedorf being where he was, and it's hard to imagine they weren't, then it's still a valid offside call.

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31 minutes ago, numpty said:

Doesn't matter whether he was or not, to me. If either the defender or the goalkeeper were influenced in any way by Seedorf being where he was, and it's hard to imagine they weren't, then it's still a valid offside call.

That’s my point. None of the Hibs defenders reacted in any way to the goal. Suggesting to me that seidorf did not influence them at all. Let’s face it even most of the time at an obviously valid goal there’s a bunch of defender throwing their arms up in the air for an offside call.  I’m not raging about the call just think that on another day we might have been awarded the goal. 

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1 hour ago, ropy said:

The linesman decided he was in an offside position but it was the ref who decided he was interfering with play, it had to be that way.  My gut reaction as the it would be given as off side, but it wasn’t, then it was, frustrating.

I think that the linesman thinks that the deflection was of the Motherwell player … … as Robinson says the linesman was nowhere near up with play 

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2 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

I just watched the clip of the “goal” on Twitter.  Not one of the Hibs players even raised an arm. I also think the ref signaled for a goal. So it comes down to the linesman giving the offside and no way can he tell if Seedorf was in the goalies line of site. So I think we were a bit hard done by. 

Just watched the highlights Seedorf flicks his leg out at the ball as the shot comes in, so he made an attempt to play the ball, from an offside position decision was 100% correct.

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Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

  • interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
  • interfering with an opponent by:
  • preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
  • challenging an opponent for the ball or
  • clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

Seedorf was doing none of the above. He was in an  offside position but that is NOT an offence. If the defender had miskicked on half-way line and Seedorf was behind him then play would have continued. So between them ref and linesman got it wrong. Par for the course for Scottish refereeing. Would have heard more about it if it had been one of the ugly sisters.

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Having watched replay frame by frame several times what I  see Seedorf doing , if anything, is tryng to avoid the ball. How the ref or linesman could see what happened from their positions I don't know. But they then do what Scottish refs usually do - make a guess and get it wrong.  And the reaction of the Hibs keeper says it all. He's blaming his defender.

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It was definitely the linesman that gave the decision as the ref points to his earpiece 

Can just imagine the conversation 

Ref … that ball was deflected did you see who it came off

Linesman … no but the Motherwell player was in an offside position 

Ref … ok we better rule it out just in case it came off the Motherwell man 

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Not sure why this is even a debate, personally I thought it would be disallowed straight away, not sure why it took so long.

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36 minutes ago, Alpha1886 said:

Having watched replay frame by frame several times what I  see Seedorf doing , if anything, is tryng to avoid the ball. How the ref or linesman could see what happened from their positions I don't know. But they then do what Scottish refs usually do - make a guess and get it wrong.  And the reaction of the Hibs keeper says it all. He's blaming his defender.

From your previous post

clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent 

He flicks his leg out to try to play the ball from an offside position,  no VAR required for this one he was offside.

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Anyone who thinks the goal should've stood needs to take their claret and amber specs off.

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5 hours ago, GazzyB said:

Anyone who thinks the goal should've stood needs to take their claret and amber specs off.

Anyone who thinks it shouldnt have stood needs to know the laws of the game

 

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