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Great Balls of Shire

Fans back into stadiums

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4 hours ago, Brazilian said:

Good to see our, non- football staff, Club directors and special fans? , are out there reinforcing the untrustworthy image of football in a pandemic.

I hope they get the message and get no where near the club transport home if it puts them in contact with the squad and football staff

 

Eh?

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New invisible masks avaliable from club shop now, buy one get a free two meter tape measure. 

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Read something the other day that England had produced figures that showed the vast majority of transmission was in residential settings, e.g house parties....no surprise.

The same article mentioned that pubs etc only accounted for approx 7% of cases.

Thst being said , why the reluctance to let fans back in ....say it again it’s an outside event.

Be good if Scotland could produce figures too....if it proves to be the case that there is a rise in cases on the back of this....then stop them getting back , at least give fans the chance though. Before clubs go bust preferably.

Not following the science that I can see

 

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On 9/16/2020 at 2:10 PM, steelboy said:

Seeing fans in the grounds in Germany, Holland and France should have the SPFL demanding a better deal from the Scottish Government. 

Not having test events in August when we had very little virus was utter idiocy. The Scottish Government need start behaving like a real government and working on getting us back to normality rather than Sturgeon threatening to greet if everyone doesn't act like Covid is the plague. 

Just look what’s happened with the university’s going back.
It’s not inside the grounds that you have to worry about it what fans do before and after games … do you trust them to follow guidelines. Then we take in the old firm they have fans who travel the length and breadth of the country and from Ireland or do we just say only fans within 25 miles of Ibrox and Parkhead can attend games, going to go down well with season ticket holders in Dundee and Aberdeen. Even our limited fan base travel a fair distance Edinburgh,Stirling Ayrshire. Who decides which season ticket holder gets in and how often do they get in ??

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University's going back isn't comparable at all. There aren't many similarities between sitting in the East Stand and a house party full of students. Football should be a safe activity because it's outside where transmission rates are extremely low and we can have allocated seats to ensure people are distanced.

As for people moving around the country so what? It's a tiny amount in the total amount of people that are on the roads/railways for work or leisure every single day. An Old Firm season ticket holder might get a home game every 6 weeks, it's irrelevant in the scheme of things.

 

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57 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Thst being said , why the reluctance to let fans back in ....say it again it’s an outside event.

It's an outside event, but it requires a sizeable number of people being funnelled in and out through confined spaces, sharing cramped facilities, etc. Also relying on fans behaving themselves and following the rules, every club has it's share of zoomers that will ruin it for the majority. As wellwell91 says, how do you control what happens before and after games, travel to and from the stadium, milling around before going in, etc? Policing and managing all of this costs money that clubs wouldn't be spending in normal times. Then the practicalities of choosing what fans get in. And say we find a solution that works for all parties, why do I need to stick to the rule of 6/2 households when there are literally hundreds of different households all at the same event sharing the same facilities? Fuck this, I'm doing my own thing because if it's okay for football then why isn't it okay for me? 

Playing devil's advocate here, but the point is that it's a can of worms that could exacerbate things. I know everyone has their own view on how things have been handled, but the fact is that we have rising numbers in the country just now (almost certainly linked to schools/universities being back, but not exclusively because of). Letting people back into stadiums when the death toll is slowly creeping up and you can't even go and visit your granny would not be good from either a PR or public health perspective. That isn't going to change until it is clear that we had the situation under control. Other countries having fans back in stadium may work for their situation, it doesn't mean it would work for us at the moment or that it is even the right thing to do. 

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It was refreshing to see fans at the super cup last night. 15,500 tickets were sold for a 67,000 seater in Budapest although I don’t think it went down well with local authorities.

In isolation, 20% capacity at stadiums should be viable and does lessen the argument around transportation etc. However, it’s not going to be contemplated at a time when cases are rising significantly. In hindsight, Jul/Aug was the time to make a significant move on this. 

Also, it’s not worth comparing with pubs and restaurants. Think it’s pretty clear that if Scotland had the fiscal power to provide dedicated support to hospitality, we’d have introduced far more stringent measures this week. 

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9 minutes ago, Stu92 said:

It's an outside event, but it requires a sizeable number of people being funnelled in and out through confined spaces, sharing cramped facilities, etc. Also relying on fans behaving themselves and following the rules, every club has it's share of zoomers that will ruin it for the majority. As wellwell91 says, how do you control what happens before and after games, travel to and from the stadium, milling around before going in, etc? Policing and managing all of this costs money that clubs wouldn't be spending in normal times. Then the practicalities of choosing what fans get in. And say we find a solution that works for all parties, why do I need to stick to the rule of 6/2 households when there are literally hundreds of different households all at the same event sharing the same facilities? Fuck this, I'm doing my own thing because if it's okay for football then why isn't it okay for me? 

Playing devil's advocate here, but the point is that it's a can of worms that could exacerbate things. I know everyone has their own view on how things have been handled, but the fact is that we have rising numbers in the country just now (almost certainly linked to schools/universities being back, but not exclusively because of). Letting people back into stadiums when the death toll is slowly creeping up and you can't even go and visit your granny would not be good from either a PR or public health perspective. That isn't going to change until it is clear that we had the situation under control. Other countries having fans back in stadium may work for their situation, it doesn't mean it would work for us at the moment or that it is even the right thing to do. 

Aye if you take the attitude that everyone is an idiot and things are guaranteed to go wrong then there is definitely no point in trying. Typical Scottish IM Jolly attitude. 

 

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4 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Aye if you take the attitude that everyone is an idiot and things are guaranteed to go wrong then there is definitely no point in trying. Typical Scottish IM Jolly attitude. 

 

I didn't say there was no point in trying, just not just now while the virus is not under control. There have been countless cases of the small minority being at fault for local outbreaks over the last few months, don't think anyone is saying everyone is an idiot but now isn't the time to say "fuck it, let's try it and see what happens". 

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6 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Aye if you take the attitude that everyone is an idiot and things are guaranteed to go wrong then there is definitely no point in trying. Typical Scottish IM Jolly attitude. 

 

Thats exactly the attitude to take, as has been proved by all the new students not giving a feck and getting mad with the bevvy and whatever else during freshers week and  spreading the virus. Assume the worst case scenario and legislate accordingly, peoples health and lives are more important than fans getting to watch football. 

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5 minutes ago, steelboy said:

University's going back isn't comparable at all. There aren't many similarities between sitting in the East Stand and a house party full of students. Football should be a safe activity because it's outside where transmission rates are extremely low and we can have allocated seats to ensure people are distanced.

As for people moving around the country so what? It's a tiny amount in the total amount of people that are on the roads/railways for work or leisure every single day. An Old Firm season ticket holder might get a home game every 6 weeks, it's irrelevant in the scheme of things.

 

Football is irrelevant in the scheme of things. Socially and psychologically it would be great to get to matches but there is a bigger picture.

And  from a financial point of view, it would be a drain on the Club for little purpose. No income whatsoever as attendance limited to existing Season Ticket holders and no retail outlets open. Furloughed staff brought back to facilitate opening the ground plus Police and Steward costs. There is a reason our club is not pushing this.

The Club has a structure that is coping fairly well, so why change that. And as for outdoor events, there is no guarantee of safety with regard to CoVid. There is no bigger an outdoor sporting event than Cheltenham Races and that did not work out well. And an outdoor Rugby event in Italy was the source of many of the original infections in this country. Travelling and socialising are part of sport and that will happen if fans are allowed back, regardless of any guidelines.

But as you wish to push your Political agenda, how many track and trace findings identifying football attendance as the source do you think it would take to enable shutting down sport at all levels indefinitely?

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22 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Football is irrelevant in the scheme of things. Socially and psychologically it would be great to get to matches but there is a bigger picture.

And  from a financial point of view, it would be a drain on the Club for little purpose. No income whatsoever as attendance limited to existing Season Ticket holders and no retail outlets open. Furloughed staff brought back to facilitate opening the ground plus Police and Steward costs. There is a reason our club is not pushing this.

The Club has a structure that is coping fairly well, so why change that. And as for outdoor events, there is no guarantee of safety with regard to CoVid. There is no bigger an outdoor sporting event than Cheltenham Races and that did not work out well. And an outdoor Rugby event in Italy was the source of many of the original infections in this country. Travelling and socialising are part of sport and that will happen if fans are allowed back, regardless of any guidelines.

But as you wish to push your Political agenda, how many track and trace findings identifying football attendance as the source do you think it would take to enable shutting down sport at all levels indefinitely?

I don't think it's irrelevant and I think there is importance and value on us all being able to do the things we enjoy and care about it.

Again you say it has no value to the club but every match that is closed doors is a free match to season ticket holders when the gates reopen.  We can already write off 20% of our season ticket income for 21/22. I agree that the club obviously aren't bothered about getting fans back in but considering that they have sold tickets for the fixtures they might want to try a bit harder.

If football attendance started back up and there were regular clusters linked to games then there would be an argument for closing them down but making the argument before any danger is proven  is once again the Scottish can't do attitude shining through. We will have plenty of evidence from Germany, France, Holland etc about transmission in stadiums soon but sadly I don't think that will make any difference to the Scottish Government as everything is about simplistic messaging  with an eye on May 21 rather than evidence

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17 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Thats exactly the attitude to take, as has been proved by all the new students not giving a feck and getting mad with the bevvy and whatever else during freshers week and  spreading the virus. Assume the worst case scenario and legislate accordingly, peoples health and lives are more important than fans getting to watch football. 

I don't think  you can compare football fans coming into the stadium for 2 hours to 17 and 18 years olds leaving home and moving into halls of residences after being couped up for 6 months.

The only reason that happened is because the universities need the rental money.

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Also there are plenty of lower level English games going ahead with fans that are comparable to Highland League and Junior but I don't expect that to matter to the Scottish Government either regardless of the results.

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2 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Also there are plenty of lower level English games going ahead with fans that are comparable to Highland League and Junior but I don't expect that to matter to the Scottish Government either regardless of the results.

So you confirm your approach is mainly Political. Good to have that confirmed once and for all. 

Social gatherings of any description can lead to rising infection rates. That's a fact you cannot deny.  There are numerous examples in sport and elsewhere, in the UK and overseas.  Some have been listed but you choose to ignore that evidence to suit your own purposes. As another example, a charity football match in England resulting in a requirement for 300 folk to isolate.  Restricting Social Gatherings across all settings is a sensible response as is trying to find an economic and mental health balance. Until an effective vaccine is available to all, I hope our Club and our Government continue to take a cautious and realistic approach.   

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3 minutes ago, dennyc said:

So you confirm your approach is mainly Political. Good to have that confirmed once and for all. 

Social gatherings of any description can lead to rising infection rates. That's a fact you cannot deny.  There are numerous examples in sport and elsewhere, in the UK and overseas.  Some have been listed but you choose to ignore that evidence to suit your own purposes. As another example, a charity football match in England resulting in a requirement for 300 folk to isolate.  Restricting Social Gatherings across all settings is a sensible response as is trying to find an economic and mental health balance. Until an effective vaccine is available to all, I hope our Club and our Government continue to take a cautious and realistic approach.   

How am i being political by acknowledging that the Scottish Government are the ones making the choices about what is allowed? Are you one those lunatics that think the SNP don't bear any responsibility for anything that happens in Scotland?

Your second paragraph is just meaningless guff. People will have to self isolate for many reasons, that's part and parcel of the pandemic and a sign that the test and trace is working. The bottom line is many other countries have fans in games yet we don't.

 

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2 hours ago, steelboy said:

How am i being political by acknowledging that the Scottish Government are the ones making the choices about what is allowed?

 

Quote

I don't think that will make any difference to the Scottish Government as everything is about simplistic messaging  with an eye on May 21 rather

I don't know but he maybe looked at your dig at the Scottish Government, your listing the date of the Scottish Parliamentary elections and had a sneaky suspicion from that you were being political.

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On 9/18/2020 at 10:36 AM, steelboy said:

There's some high risk individuals in there. 

Jesus. How fucking stupid do you need to be? :doh:

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1 hour ago, Andy_P said:

 

I don't know but he maybe looked at your dig at the Scottish Government, your listing the date of the Scottish Parliamentary elections and had a sneaky suspicion from that you were being political.

Pointing out that a government are influenced by upcoming elections isn't political. It applies in any country. 

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4 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Pointing out that a government are influenced by upcoming elections isn't political. It applies in any country. 

It does, but you've gone a little beyond "pointing out"

In the space of a couple of posts alone  you have alleged that they are going to ignore evidence from other countries when it comes to the re-introduction of supporters and suggesting that their messages are deliberately simplistic with the inference being that they are doing so to garner votes for an election eight months away.

 

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6 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Just look what’s happened with the university’s going back.
It’s not inside the grounds that you have to worry about it what fans do before and after games … do you trust them to follow guidelines. Then we take in the old firm they have fans who travel the length and breadth of the country and from Ireland or do we just say only fans within 25 miles of Ibrox and Parkhead can attend games, going to go down well with season ticket holders in Dundee and Aberdeen. Even our limited fan base travel a fair distance Edinburgh,Stirling Ayrshire. Who decides which season ticket holder gets in and how often do they get in ??

Do we have to worry about people who go shopping on a Saturday and what they do before and after the shops?

The  demographic of the punters is what it is, very varied....need to concentrate on ways to get them back in , not why they shouldn’t be back

licensed premises are responsible for very few transmission of cases,it should be up to people whether they go to them , some will , some won’t . Once they are in the ground , I don’t see the risk.

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4 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

And there was a major outbreak associated with this??

I have no idea, and I dont care wether there was or wasnt. The point is, even the most blinkered person would admit a photo like that at times like these is at least naive and at most utter fucking stupidity. 

ESPECIALLY when the club is putting posts out on social media asking people to wear masks and social distance to keep lanarkshire safe. 

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