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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Game 9: Rangers (H)

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55 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

imagine if someone told you today that Motherwell would not beat Rangers in the league by 2038 you'd actually think theres no way that could happen. but thats what has just happened , utterly pathetic.

If we don’t improve it won’t be an issue, as we won’t be in the same league as Rangers to lose to them. :mellow:

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Poor day but again a bit of perspective, last league game we went away to Aberdeen and won 3-0, we’re 3 points off 5th place. It’s all very tight with no real quality outside of the old firm, nothing in it between most teams.

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The next 4 games will tell a lot.  We don’t need to win them all but there needs to be a definite progression.

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59 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I don't get why he is sending them out on loan no Robbo give them a bloody chance and see how they do can't be any worse than what we have been seeing at least they will give you a fight to try keep place in the team.Never a better time no crowds to get on case best time to play them.

He gave them new contracts so must be good enough.

I think in the long run these guys will benefit more from 10+ games of full time football rather than the occasional 10 minutes here and there.  The proof will be if they return and establish themselves in the match day squad.

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Once you lose an early goal against the ugly sisters you are always on the back foot .............you could bet your life on that we would not have got both the penalties that Brother Madden awarded had they happened in their box.........and  if the challenge on Campbell was on a Rangers player it would have been a stonewaller........the double standards by the commentators on  the challenge on Lang, if that was an ugly sister players it would be he “felt a touch”  and he was entitled to go down.......but Lang’s a cheat as he went down to easy.

Scottish football is fecked as the press/tv/authorities etc etc pander to these horrible cunts always have and always will do
 

Embarrassing that we have not had 3 points of them for eighteen years...........the game plan was fecked in the 1st minute and apart from a tremendous Carson save I feel it could have been a lot worse

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5 hours ago, wellup83 said:

Maguire can't possibly be any worse in there. Unfortunately robinson seems hell bent on turning him into a defensive mid. Robinson had his arm forced into putting trust in youth last season and it saved his neck. Maybe it's time to try the same again? 

Sorry pal, Maguire's chance as a centre back has long gone. He even failed to impress as a CB when on loan at QOS. 

His only hope imho is as a back up midfielder and even at that I have serious doubts.

For our defence to improve we will have to wait on Carroll' s return to LB which will allow Mc Ginley/ Dunne or eventually Donnelly to slip into left centre defence. Neither Mugabie ( admittedly improving) nor Lamie are dependable or skillful enough.

Now, if we could just get the phone number of a certain Tom Alfred!!

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Time is a healer they say...well I have mellowed after today’s game a little. 

I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that today lacklustre showing was due largely in part to the effort in the Israeli heat and travel from late last week.  Easy for us to dismiss that as a reason but none of these players have that experience before and we can not rotate our squad like Rangers can and did. 

Aberdeen away showed what team are capable of and even 1st half v Hapoel Beer Sheva we did reasonably well against a seeded side. 

I think the next 4 games are key to our season. And will show us what likely lies ahead better than today’s game. If we can take 7,8,9 or more points then I think we will be OK and have a good chance of top 6. Tbh there is little between all other sides bar the top 4. I still think we are better than most of those teams. 

For me most of our team are capable of a decent level of football. Carson, Campbell and Watt are showing it consistently.  But the likes of Polworth, Mugabe, Long, O Hara and Lang have shown in odd games they are decent footballers. There are only 1 or 2 who have been poor in most s games and they are really only getting a game due to injuries. 

That new penalty interpretation is rightfully causing huge outcry. If it hits hand regardless of circumstances and intention it is a penalty. Well you know that every side will now be trying to take advantage of that. If I were Robinson I would literally instruct the players to leather the ball as hard as possible towards any opposing players between there midriff and head. Do that every game and you will get a couple of penalties. 

A shite day at the office but hopefully we can get back to picking up points in October / November. 

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30 minutes ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

Once you lose an early goal against the ugly sisters you are always on the back foot .............you could bet your life on that we would not have got both the penalties that Brother Madden awarded had they happened in their box.........and  if the challenge on Campbell was on a Rangers player it would have been a stonewaller........the double standards by the commentators on  the challenge on Long, if that was an ugly sister players it would be he “felt a touch”  and he was entitled to go down.......but Lang’s a cheat as he went down to easy.

Scottish football is fecked as the press/tv/authorities etc etc pander to these horrible cunts always have and always will do
 

Embarrassing that we have not had 3 points of them for eighteen years...........the game plan was fecked in the 1st minute and apart from a tremendous Carson save I feel it could have been a lot worse

The one that was ignored was our best pen shout of them all, when Helander assaulted Watt 16 yards out. He did get the ball,but the follow through stamped on Watt's ankle/heel and took his boot off! And Lang should have been booked as that dive was comical

Both Rangers pens were 100% pens, you cant fault the ref there, its the stupid laws. But I do believe if the Challenges on Campbell & Watt had been made on Arfield & Morelos there would have been 2 more pens given!

Ultimately even those 2 pens wouldve just been papering over the cracks..... but then "papering over the cracks" has been Robinson's motto for his time in charge here. Every season theres a lucky cup win or run of 2 or 3 results that make people forgive his annual, or sometimes bi-annual 10-12 game run without a win

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3 minutes ago, Shaka said:

The one that was ignored was our best pen shout of them all, when Helander assaulted Watt 16 yards out. He did get the ball,but the follow through stamped on Watt's ankle/heel and took his boot off! And Lang should have been booked as that dive was comical

Both Rangers pens were 100% pens, you cant fault the ref there, its the stupid laws. But I do believe if the Challenges on Campbell & Watt had been made on Arfield & Morelos there would have been 2 more pens given!

Ultimately even those 2 pens wouldve just been papering over the cracks..... but then "papering over the cracks" has been Robinson's motto for his time in charge here. Every season theres a lucky cup win or run of 2 or 3 results that make people forgive his annual, or sometimes bi-annual 10-12 game run without a win

3rd last season ?

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Today was always going to be tough. 4 games in 10 days (three of which, a fair distance away) was always going to leave the team a little leggy today. The opponents could not have been worse but maybe in a fixture we never win anyway this was the the best possible team to play today. 

The 18 year league record does grate. Interestingly the only managers to break the monotony have been the much maligned Baraclough and Robinson himself. You could argue that their victories came against a weakened Rangers but anybody that watched McCall's team put in a subservient display in a League Cup display at Ibrox against a Championship Rangers will know that the Scottish managers record in the last 18 years have been dire.

That said if financial doping applies to Man City against top European sides then by ratio of revenue (if not legal definition) Rangers and Celtic have been getting a doping advantage over every other team in Scotland for a long time.

As it is we sit 9th approaching the end of the first quarter. We matched Aberdeen and Hibs for performance and in Europe we beat the teams ranked below us and lost to the team ranked above us. Not scintillating by any means but no Armageddon either. I think we will find a consistency in the second quarter that will take the team up the table rather than down. 

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3 hours ago, underboyleheating said:

I long for the days of wee Dougie Arnott, Brian Martin, Tommy Coyne etc battling for every ball and giving the likes of Celtic and Rangers a game. I get the impression that players these days are just happy to be in a paying job, and don’t care about the side that pays their wages.  

I think it just depends if that is part of the players game or not. We've had teams like that recently - 2017 2018 with Moult (then Main), Bowman, Kipre and Hartley etc and they managed 3 OF draws in the league and that semi-final win over Rangers. We also finished 7th that year so it wasn't an effective game plan against everyone. 

Our current group took us to 3rd and  to say that they don't care seems really unfair. Liam Polworth is a good example of a player who fans think doesn't knock his pan in because he's not flying into tackles, yet he consistently covers more ground than any other Motherwell player. Hard tackling just isn't one of his strengths but you can't possibly doubt his commitment. 

 

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1 hour ago, livivoice said:

Sorry pal, Maguire's chance as a centre back has long gone. He even failed to impress as a CB when on loan at QOS. 

His only hope imho is as a back up midfielder and even at that I have serious doubts.

For our defence to improve we will have to wait on Carroll' s return to LB which will allow Mc Ginley/ Dunne or eventually Donnelly to slip into left centre defence. Neither Mugabie ( admittedly improving) nor Lamie are dependable or skillful enough.

Now, if we could just get the phone number of a certain Tom Alfred!!

I would love to have Aldred back, thought he was immense.  I know I am in minority but I am not a massive Carroll fan but certainly better than Lamie and Mcginley.  Dunne has pace but that is all. We all know about his distribution 

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59 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

3rd last season ?

Yes, and when the season ended 3/4 of the way through we were in the midst of a terrible run of form! So you are really just reinforcing my point

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8 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I would love to have Aldred back, thought he was immense.  I know I am in minority but I am not a massive Carroll fan but certainly better than Lamie and Mcginley.  Dunne has pace but that is all. We all know about his distribution 

Carroll is a guy who is getting better every day he is out! He was decent when he played last season but the way some people are going on about his return Youd be forgiven for thinking we were bringing in Paolo Maldini! .......... tho compared to McGinlay & Lamie, even the groundsman would look like Paolo Maldini

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2 hours ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

Once you lose an early goal against the ugly sisters you are always on the back foot .............you could bet your life on that we would not have got both the penalties that Brother Madden awarded had they happened in their box.........and  if the challenge on Campbell was on a Rangers player it would have been a stonewaller........the double standards by the commentators on  the challenge on Long, if that was an ugly sister players it would be he “felt a touch”  and he was entitled to go down.......but Lang’s a cheat as he went down to easy.

Scottish football is fecked as the press/tv/authorities etc etc pander to these horrible cunts always have and always will do
 

Embarrassing that we have not had 3 points of them for eighteen years...........the game plan was fecked in the 1st minute and apart from a tremendous Carson save I feel it could have been a lot worse

Great post and my thoughts exactly. Plus the watt one as yes hollander touched ball 1st but then was dangerous follow through and anywhere else on park it's a foul and a booking. It looks like sour grapes meaning after a 5-1 defeat but these are facts.  I'm in happy Clapper camp I suppose but down after today. Scene was set in 1st 10 mins when a few dubious fouls went to them and a big one when linesman who was 5 yards away gave corner but madden 30 yards away over ruled and gave goal kick.

Robinson whilst looking sporting after game saying nothing about the decisions and blamed it on performance is also pandering to them and it makes me mad. 

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8 hours ago, Shaka said:

Yes, and when the season ended 3/4 of the way through we were in the midst of a terrible run of form! So you are really just reinforcing my point

So do we ignore the wins and just concentrate on the defeats rather than looking at the overall results over the course of a season ? What in your view is an acceptable final placing in the league ?

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Whilst the 47 game winless run v them is clearly is an absolute minter, there have been a few draws in there we should’ve won right enough. Jim O’Briens sclaffed penalty with 2 minutes to go in a 0-0 draw and Ross Forbes wrongly disallowed goal in a 1-1 draw being 2. Both in the same season actually if I recall.

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11 hours ago, Shaka said:

Yes, and when the season ended 3/4 of the way through we were in the midst of a terrible run of form! So you are really just reinforcing my point

Reinforcing your point would be to agree that we are the worst football team with the worst players on planet earth.  Thankfully most posters can see who are the overly negative ones on this board who regardless of circumstances would rather find something to moan about. Anyone who finds reason to gripe about a 3rd place finish and Europa League spot illustrates this perfectly. 

I still believe that some people on here believe we have a budget on same level as an Aberdeen or Hibs. We have some shit players because it is all we can afford to allow us to stay within our fairly meagre budget.  And when you are operating at that level you are going to get players that don’t come good. Most if not all are gambles that they will come good when for whatever reason they have not been before joining Motherwell. Some unsurprisingly just turn out to be not very good despite our best efforts. This is not exclusive to Motherwell.

I was hugely disappointed after our recent win v Coleraine and did not feel much better after yesterday. But when the dust settles you realise the team have had a very tough schedule with lots of travel. Probably the worst team we could have played yesterday. Add that to the fact that Brother Madden was the referee. The 2 penalties we gave away are now by the letter of the law penalties. Similar to the one we got up at Aberdeen. It is a ludicrous law and is rightly being debated all over the place.  That said Campbell’s was a penalty and everyone has agreed bar unsurprisingly the referee. I would also argue that Watts was a penalty also but again no chance we were getting it where at the other end - step up Tavernier. 

Some players deserve criticism but I do feel that many are getting it tight when in fact they will have the odd poor game because they are at Motherwell and not Liverpool. If Man City can lose 5 goals at home....... 

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20 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

Words fail me

Please put that into practice when you go to post your next joke :P

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I wouldn't say yesterday has been eradicated from the memory but there are games as a fan it is simply better to put behind you, leave to the coaching staff to do what the need to/should do on the training ground on the back of it, and just move on. And yesterday feels like of those games.

The first half left me largely apathetic to the point that I just muted the commentary at half-time and gave it little more than cursory glances in the second half.  The "letter of the law" being applied selectively by Madden in both boxes, the remarks from the summarisers about just having to deal the referees decisions when being on the verge of tears the week before when the officials were perceived to have got it wrong, the team simply not turning u.  It just felt, like nah, this is a nonsense best perhaps best summed up by Frazzle's tweet about asking if his cardboard cut out could be transported to the pub early in the second half...

Moving, very very swiftly, on.

 

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15 hours ago, Yodo said:

Got to ask to ask why should he be given more time as his record from Xmas is horrific and remember two of those wins are against part time Irish league teams 

If we’re ignoring the games we should be winning, can we also ignore the games we expect to be beaten in? Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, HBS....

14 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I don't get why he is sending them out on loan no Robbo give them a bloody chance and see how they do can't be any worse than what we have been seeing at least they will give you a fight to try keep place in the team.Never a better time no crowds to get on case best time to play them.

If they aren’t any better, there will be plenty who will get sick into them in the same way current players are getting. What then?!?

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Just got round to looking at the highlights.

I was expecting more controversy about the two Rangers penalties.  I thought they were both stick on penalties.  Don't think either was deliberate but you can't have high hands any more and that's that.  I'm all for changing the rule back to deliberate hand ball but the rules are different now.

Our two penalty shouts I thought the Campbell could definitely have been given, which if we'd scored it would have made it 1-1 and might have given us a bit more energy and confidence.  I thought Lang went down too easy though even though Helander had his arm up, didn't see any downwards force.

2nd Rangers goal, I think people have been a bit harsh on Lamie to be honest.  Sure he gets done by Jones for pace but if someone is faster than you there isn't much you can do about it and if you actually look at it Jones has done the entire back 4 for pace.  Lamie is in the full back position but the entire 18 yard box is exposed cos no one else is matching the run either so it's easy for Jones to come inside and score.  In fact Lamie is a good yard or two further back than any one else in the back line and Mugabi is miles off. Not saying for a minute that Lamie hasn't been poor this season but it's too easy to pin the blame on him for that one. 

4th Rangers goal kinda falls into the same category.  Lamie has two Rangers attackers to pick up which obviously he can't.  He has a decision to make and I think he should close Itten and doesn't and gets his position wrong but for me that goal is down the midfield getting caught out and not picking up and sticking to runners.   Also Mugabi is pulled out of position again for this goal.  It's a great finish but Itten should not have the space he has more or less in our D.

5th one is just one of those ones where it falls to the wrong or the right person in the 6 yard box.  Don't think you can really do much about that.

Overall with out seeing the full game it looks like we've been done for pace all over the pitch.  Full backs, centre backs, midfielders.  Not sure if that is tiredness, laziness or just lack of pace in general but you'd maybe expect the manager to factor that in to our tactics which doesn't seem to have been done.

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