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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Kilmarnock (A) - Postponed

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3 hours ago, Brazilian said:

Sorry Dave but what evidence of inconsistencies ?

St.Mirren outbreak, was what, one working/training  group (within government  operating protocol) ,  3 players, all from the same working group/bubble , two maybe three households  at most isolated and contained spread.

Kilmarnock outbreak, details still vague, 6 positive cases ,  it appears it’s to have spread further into the squad from initial 3 , so now into different groups/ bubbles , at least double the households and still not confident it’s contained , squad advised to isolate 

Aberdeen Eight , squad riddled with it, squad advised to isolate 


seems fairy consistent risk based approach in the advice , 

Too many frustrated punters crying out for something or someone to blame,

as COF pointed out , rules and regulations as they stand are being applied, and consistently...

it confuses me that , when it comes to football people try and twist any snippet of a potential grievance to escalate to some sort of shitstorm

The league is the clubs the association again are the clubs, the clubs realise , a pandemic is all around us and individuals are going to get infected

In the current climate there are people of all persuasions out to make mischief, Iain.  In terms of inconsistencies I was referring to a wider context, but will not go into that as it involves other issues. We know very little of the Kilmarnock situation and how it will unfold. Things may become clearer after the SPFL investigate or then again they may not. We'll just have to wait and see.

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18 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

That is a very valid point. 

However it does fall down in that the Betfred Cup starts as a mini league. So if Killie forfeit games v Falkirk and Dunfermline how does that not unfairly disadvantage Clyde and Dumbarton who are in the same league  ? 

Oh aye right enough, I wasn't actually paying attention to which cup it was. Yeah... that's not a fair position. 

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With no game until the 17th I wonder if we'll get a couple of bounce games over the international break.

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4 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

That is a very valid point. 

However it does fall down in that the Betfred Cup starts as a mini league. So if Killie forfeit games v Falkirk and Dunfermline how does that not unfairly disadvantage Clyde and Dumbarton who are in the same league  ? 

In that case, if Killie cannot field a team against Falkirk through their own or their players negligence then they do not take part at all and it becomes a four team mini league. That way nobody but Killie are penalised and nobody is given an unfair advantage over the rest of the Group. 
If it happens later on in the Group their Earlier games are deleted from the standings. If it happens in knock out, then the opponent goes through.

But none of that will happen as it would set a precedent that might hurt a big team. Hard to deny us the Cup if we get to a final and our opponents default through CoVid. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, dennyc said:

But none of that will happen as it would set a precedent that might hurt a big team. Hard to deny us the Cup if we get to a final and our opponents default through CoVid. 

 

 

I'd say if a cup final was in jeopardy the losing semi finalists should take the place of the Covid affected team.

Not the ideal sporting solution but it means the cup final still gets played and the TV company, SFA etc gets the spectacle.

Also winning a cup final without playing a game would feel hollow (although it would be worth it for the "Robinson won the cup"/"Naw he didnae" back and forth).

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Doncaster has confirmed that the Scottish Government cancelled the previous games. Aberdeen and Celtic were willing and able to play. Kilmarnock were not able to play. 

If their League Cup fixtures are awarded to their opponents we should also get the points.

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1 hour ago, steelboy said:

Doncaster has confirmed that the Scottish Government cancelled the previous games. Aberdeen and Celtic were willing and able to play. Kilmarnock were not able to play. 

If their League Cup fixtures are awarded to their opponents we should also get the points.

Apparently there is no provision in the SPFL rules to award the points to the opponents if a team is unable to play a match, which is very strange given its covered for Cup matches.

But the SPFL do have the power to bring the team before a disciplinary tribunal and if found to be in breach of the rules , then various sanctions are open to them including declaring the match forfeited and awarding the points, you honestly could not make this nonsense up.

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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Apparently there is no provision in the SPFL rules to award the points to the opponents if a team is unable to play a match, which is very strange given its covered for Cup matches.

But the SPFL do have the power to bring the team before a disciplinary tribunal and if found to be in breach of the rules , then various sanctions are open to them including declaring the match forfeited and awarding the points, you honestly could not make this nonsense up.

It is the spfl after all, they make the rules up as they go along.

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2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Apparently there is no provision in the SPFL rules to award the points to the opponents if a team is unable to play a match, which is very strange given its covered for Cup matches.

But the SPFL do have the power to bring the team before a disciplinary tribunal and if found to be in breach of the rules , then various sanctions are open to them including declaring the match forfeited and awarding the points, you honestly could not make this nonsense up.

Having an investigation and hearing seems like a fair process that would have to be followed unless the team put up no protest to the forfeit. 

I'd guess that the SPFL are terrified to set a precedent in case it comes back to sting their favoured team later. They will searching their brains to figure out how to justify treating the cup and league differently. 

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Is it not the case that league games take priority over cup games in the fixture calendar? We’ve already had at least one cup game in England forfeited due to Covid while league games have been rescheduled. It looks like we are doing the same in Scotland.

It puts the cup competitions on shaky ground heading into the winter, while  the fixtures are likely to pile up in the league. Ideally, at least one of the cups would have been scrapped this season but nobody is willing to concede ground.  I can therefore understand why it’s one rule for the cups, and another for the league. In my mind, the only way a league game should be forfeited is if there has been a severe breach in Covid protocol. 

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4 hours ago, steelboy said:

Having an investigation and hearing seems like a fair process that would have to be followed unless the team put up no protest to the forfeit. 

I'd guess that the SPFL are terrified to set a precedent in case it comes back to sting their favoured team later. They will searching their brains to figure out how to justify treating the cup and league differently. 

Who is their favoured team in your opinion?

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56 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Who is their favoured team in your opinion?

The club that has had it's fans as Compliance Officer since the role was introduced.

The club who's chief executive negotiates TV deals on behalf of the league. 

The club that caused the ref strike, allowed a movie to be filmed in their stadium about a conspiracy theory of SFA corruption and called a ref a cheat on their TV channel all with no punishment.

The club who have been allowed to hold an internal inquiry which has never reported back about their employee paedophile ring. 

The club who's solicitors decided how to end the season. 

Celtic are the richest club by far and in Scottish football like the rest of society the richest get preferential treatment. 

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I see killie have forfeited the league Cup game against Falkirk, still amazes me how the rules for league and Cup are different for the same situation, ie a team unable and / or unwilling to fulfil a fixture.

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There's a time constraint on the cup game, whereas we the rearranged league fixture can be played  at any time. It's going to be interesting  to see how this is handled, and how much it changes when this happens again, depending on the teams involved. 

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Any update on the SPFL investigation?  I see that Robbie Neilson has suggested that the SPFL draw up guidelines for games in which one team can't participate (he's suggested that the opposition is awarded 3 points). The silence is deafening.  He is right though - this situation will crop up again. 

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Any update on the SPFL investigation?  I see that Robbie Neilson has suggested that the SPFL draw up guidelines for games in which one team can't participate (he's suggested that the opposition is awarded 3 points). The silence is deafening.  He is right though - this situation will crop up again. 

Doncaster said the SPFL is not allowed to award any games. When they requested temporary emergency powers this season, that was one of the powers they wanted. However, the clubs voted against Doncaster and his crew from having those powers - (correctly, in my opinion).

So only the SFA has the power to award the game to us. This means any results of the SPFL inquiry have to be handed over to the SFA for their deliberation.

The cup games that were deemed to be walkovers fell under the jurisdiction of the League and so it was easier and quicker for that decision to be made.

I agree there should be rules agreed and put in place as it is very likely to happen again and the last thing we need this season is another "calling the league" situation if we run out of time to complete it.

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

Doncaster said the SPFL is not allowed to award any games. When they requested temporary emergency powers this season, that was one of the powers they wanted. However, the clubs voted against Doncaster and his crew from having those powers - (correctly, in my opinion).

So only the SFA has the power to award the game to us. This means any results of the SPFL inquiry have to be handed over to the SFA for their deliberation.

The cup games that were deemed to be walkovers fell under the jurisdiction of the League and so it was easier and quicker for that decision to be made.

A compelling case then for the long long overdue amalgamation of the SFA and SPFL.

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3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Any update on the SPFL investigation?  I see that Robbie Neilson has suggested that the SPFL draw up guidelines for games in which one team can't participate (he's suggested that the opposition is awarded 3 points). The silence is deafening.  He is right though - this situation will crop up again. 

Yip this coming Saturday ……… wonder how that’s going to work out …… Lennon already started the spin

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49 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

A compelling case then for the long long overdue amalgamation of the SFA and SPFL.

Can you imagine Doncaster being in charge of that?

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And cue Killie opting to play League Cup game midweek but requesting League game  following weekend v Livi be postponed. Farcical.

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1 hour ago, dennyc said:

And cue Killie opting to play League Cup game midweek but requesting League game  following weekend v Livi be postponed. Farcical.

According to stv news tonight, Livi knocked them back when they asked to postpone the game, they have 13 fit players according to Alex Dyer so they will be playing.

I am sure they had 13 fit players the other week  as well but never played us so they are at it if you ask me.

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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

According to stv news tonight, Livi knocked them back when they asked to postpone the game, they have 13 fit players according to Alex Dyer so they will be playing.

I am sure they had 13 fit players the other week  as well but never played us so they are at it if you ask me.

Their entire first team squad was instructed to isolate...

how do you get to them being at it? 

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35 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

Their entire first team squad was instructed to isolate...

how do you get to them being at it? 

Because the rules state if you have 13 fit players you need to fulfill the fixture, does not specify 1st team, reserves etc just players, the match against us should have been played.

They will play against Livi with a makeshift team as Alex Dyer stated today, so why were they allowed to call off the game last week?

There is something well dodgy about all those players testing positive, but as expected the alleged SPFL investigation has still to report, I won't be holding my breath.

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3 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Because the rules state if you have 13 fit players you need to fulfill the fixture, does not specify 1st team, reserves etc just players, the match against us should have been played.

They will play against Livi with a makeshift team as Alex Dyer stated today, so why were they allowed to call off the game last week?

There is something well dodgy about all those players testing positive, but as expected the alleged SPFL investigation has still to report, I won't be holding my breath.

Reserve/youth players would not have been tested in time for the game. There’s no way it could have gone ahead. 

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I think the nonsense is really happening this week. Play a game midweek which you think you can win with a weakened team and which would keep you in a cup tournament, but at the same time request the postponement of a league game a few days later. Not really blaming Killie as they are only trying to look after themselves. Trying to stay in the cup and not drop League points.

The nonsense is that the existing rules (or lack of rules} enable them to do that. Does not happen often but I have to side with Hearts, who want a hard and fast rule set down for both League and League Cup. UEFA go along the lines of that if you have 13 players, to include a goalkeeper, then the game goes ahead. We have  not gone down that road, or even set a criteria that covers all matches. It is time for our Leaders to actually lead. Does anybody know what the criteria is for having a game called? Even after several have been cancelled. It all seems very random

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