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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Kilmarnock (A) - Postponed

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12 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Because the rules state if you have 13 fit players you need to fulfill the fixture, does not specify 1st team, reserves etc just players, the match against us should have been played.

They will play against Livi with a makeshift team as Alex Dyer stated today, so why were they allowed to call off the game last week?

There is something well dodgy about all those players testing positive, but as expected the alleged SPFL investigation has still to report, I won't be holding my breath.

Full blown Batshit crazy

they had NO players to play against us, None , zero, nada , ziltch 

In the cup they only effectively had apprentices/ trainees youths, so like any responsible business and within the predetermined rules, they declared they couldn’t participate  in that fixture 

Now for the next cup game, they’ll have six senior players, and are hoping to put a team out,

for the livvy game , they feel it might be too much for the recovering senior players and kids, so requested a postponement, any other year a  team would’ve been granted that, this year the league are doing what they can to keep the possibility of fixture completion alive, so told them to jam it!

Ps the rules exist and are being applied consistently, where there’s no external influence 

 

 

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I think it's as simple as "if you have enough players you need to play". At least in the Premiership.

Cup games are more complicated due to different leagues and their protocols.

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28 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

 

Ps the rules exist and are being applied consistently, where there’s no external influence 

 

 

I agree the Killie game against us had to be called off and I don't think Killie are doing anything wrong. Well, not anything any team looking after their own interests would not do.

But what are those rules? How many players to Motherwell have to have down with CoVid to know beyond any doubt that a request to cancel a game will be approved. It's a genuine question because I just don't know what football's view is. What is the SPFL guidance? Appears to me the buck is passed elsewhere...Sturgeon/Leitch, Local Health Boards as examples.

I saw a few nights ago that an English cup match was postponed due to players being on International duty. So there appears to be a quota for that.  Why not put a quota in place for CoVid (or any illness), with the proviso that a total below that figure might also mean a postponement if Health Boards intervene due to circumstances.

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18 minutes ago, ropy said:

13 players who are virus free and not isolating = quota.

Fine. When are we adopting that? Because we haven't yet. UEFA have for their tournaments. At least then it would be clear. Though I would prefer 15.

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8 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Fine. When are we adopting that? Because we haven't yet. UEFA have for their tournaments. At least then it would be clear.

When have the league not applied it?

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5 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Fine. When are we adopting that? Because we haven't yet. UEFA have for their tournaments. At least then it would be clear. Though I would prefer 15.

St Mirren games for example 

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There used to be a rule, maybe unofficial, that if a team had 3 or more players on international duty then they’d be granted a postponement. Injuries are another matter ie our cup replay in 1976 against Hibs at Ibrox (I’m still bitter  about that).  Were Shotts BA not involved in some controversy with the Junior FA a few years ago about a postponement due to injury/illness? It always has been very unclear. 

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2 minutes ago, ropy said:

St Mirren games for example 

I think St Mirren had three players out, all goalkeepers, so had to get an emergency goalkeeper in. And yes they were told to play.  But three players out is not an issue, Or it shouldn't be. 

How many first team squad payers out with illness are required to guarantee a postponement? Until the SPFL Board formally set a figure it is all a lottery.  Don't be surprised if Celtic push  to cancel Saturday's OF match if a couple more players go down. And they certainly have a big enough squad to cope.

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48 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I think St Mirren had three players out, all goalkeepers, so had to get an emergency goalkeeper in. And yes they were told to play.  But three players out is not an issue, Or it shouldn't be. 

How many first team squad payers out with illness are required to guarantee a postponement? Until the SPFL Board formally set a figure it is all a lottery.  Don't be surprised if Celtic push  to cancel Saturday's OF match if a couple more players go down. And they certainly have a big enough squad to cope.

You can have 112 players out but if you have 13 players virus free and not isolating the game is on, that is the number, it has been set.

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Must have missed the SPFL Board making that announcement. If so,  apologies. Can you point me towards their Statement? Or one saying we have adopted the UEFA guideline, unless outside bodies intervene.  Then it's clear and cannot/should not be abused or challenged.

Forfar had one player missing for the Dundee game and were allowed to forfeit. Admittedly Contact Tracing had not been completed and it was maybe safer to pull out. Not sure any more whether testing negative just before a match supersedes the tracing stuff. But they did have enough players CoVid free and non isolating to field a team. By that token. any team discovering a positive test in the lead up to a game could have grounds for postponing, whether it is one or a dozen positive results.

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Forfar weren't  "allowed to forfeit".  They had one player test positive on the afternoon of the game and were required to liaise with the SFA and Test and Trace to establish if any other players were required to isolate.  As it wasn't possible to complete that process before kick-off they weren't able to fulfill the fixture. They basically had no choice.

The Betfred Cup has its own rules (because the SPFL run it) and their rules award a 3 - 0 win to the opposition.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Forfar weren't  "allowed to forfeit".  They had one player test positive on the afternoon of the game and were required to liaise with the SFA and Test and Trace to establish if any other players were required to isolate.  As it wasn't possible to complete that process before kick-off they weren't able to fulfill the fixture. They basically had no choice.

The Betfred Cup has its own rules (because the SPFL run it) and their rules award a 3 - 0 win to the opposition.

 

 

From the SPFL Statement, Forfar advised the SPFL they could not fulfil the fixture. They made the move in the knowledge they would forfeit. That sounds like a willing forfeit to me. The point being they were not forced to play despite having 13 CoVid free players. And probably rightly so.

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11 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

There used to be a rule, maybe unofficial, that if a team had 3 or more players on international duty then they’d be granted a postponement. Injuries are another matter ie our cup replay in 1976 against Hibs at Ibrox (I’m still bitter  about that).  Were Shotts BA not involved in some controversy with the Junior FA a few years ago about a postponement due to injury/illness? It always has been very unclear. 

You could see that night at Ibrox that a wheen of the players really did have flu. How they managed to win I do not know.

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12 hours ago, dennyc said:

But what are those rules? How many players to Motherwell have to have down with CoVid to know beyond any doubt that a request to cancel a game will be approved. It's a genuine question because I just don't know what football's view is. What is the SPFL guidance? Appears to me the buck is passed elsewhere...Sturgeon/Leitch, Local Health Boards as examples.

I saw a few nights ago that an English cup match was postponed due to players being on International duty. So there appears to be a quota for that.  Why not put a quota in place for CoVid (or any illness), with the proviso that a total below that figure might also mean a postponement if Health Boards intervene due to circumstances.

The SPFL/SFA guidance is at best unclear. In their defence however, its an almost unprecedented situation but yes, they have failed to show leadership and clarity. Also in their defence, the guidance provided by the Scottish Government (and maybe also the UK Government in England) is inconsistent and not totally clear; arrangements made between the Scottish Government and the footballing authorities are inconsistent and somewhat haphazard.  I'm basing this opinion on an interview given by professor Jason Leitch who admits as much here. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54408588

Its interesting that he rightly differentiates between the outbreaks at Aberdeen and Celtic, which were individual, and the one at Kilmarnock which was workplace based. In that case, why did the footballing authorities punish Celtic and Aberdeen? 

The issue of whether clubs themselves want to admit a small number of fans on the basis of financial viablity has been raised. Thats an entirely  separate matter. The issue here is whether they are allowed to do so, irrespective of whether they want to do so or not.

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Breaking news on SSN that Killie are to face SFA disciplinary action for breaching protocols prior to the match.

May explain why it wasn’t played this week?

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1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

Breaking news on SSN that Killie are to face SFA disciplinary action for breaching protocols prior to the match.

May explain why it wasn’t played this week?

£500 fine. 

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30 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

£500 fine. 

Suspended.

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

£500 fine. 

Its the SPFL investigating Dave, they will do nothing in case they set a precedent they have to stick to, a strongly worded reprimand is all Killie will get ie " This is your final warning dont do it again"

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I cannot  see the powers awarding anyone a 3-0. They will be setting a precedent and can you imagine the fall out if  after doing so they have to rule against  one of the ugly sisters. At most there will be a fine. 

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