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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Game 30: St Mirren (A)

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Suspending the points awards for us and Hamilton only highlights what an absolute shambles the SPFL and SFA are currently the whole system of how football in Scotland is administered is not fit for purpose.

St Mirren and Killie blatantly  broke the rules and as a result were unable to fulfill their fixtures, so its a no brainer. Feck knows what grounds they are appealing on, but the SPFL are just making Scottish football a laughing stock, it's a disgrace .

Can you imagine the national uproar if either of the ugly sisters had been awarded the points and then have them taken away, Doncaster and his whole team should be told to clear their desks and GTF.

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The cynic in me thinks that the ridiculous time it's taken to conduct the initial investigations and allow the appeals is no accident. They are doing anything to avoid setting a precedent that might have an impact on where the League Title ends up. 

Drag it out as long as possible and they can carve it up however it suits when the dust settles. Who cares who it affects, as long as it's not the OF.

An absolute farce. 

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The temporary suspension of the points award is procedural. However, this whole saga is dragging on too long, to our and Accies' detriment.  Whatever the outcome, we should be compensated financially.

I stand by my original opinion that the games should replayed, if and only if, the SPFL have information on the availability of players.  If St Mirren and Kilmarnock have to play with 13 fit players selected from their entire squads, so be it. That way both clubs would have a sporting chance to beat us and reclaim the points as their own, albeit with drastically weakened teams. They should not benefit  from the cancellations.

As things stand, Stephen Robinson might adopt different tactics and/or pick different teams in the next few games depending on our league position. We are the innocent party in this saga.

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Copy and pasted from Robbo thread :

I have sympathy for the club.  I have no strong opinion on whether or how St Mirren and Killie should be punished.  The points should not have been awarded while there was still course to appeal.

But given that they were awarded, we have now been messed about through no fault of our own.  As innocent bystanders we were given something then a few weeks later and a few hours before a match it has been taken away from us with no clarity on how things will move on.

Theoretically in midweek we may have gone all out for a winner but due to our relative safe position in 5th we determined that hanging on to one point was a good result.

Theoretically.

 
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The Scottish government gave football special permission to restart only if strict Covid protocols were followed.

Maybe we should just let the Scottish Government shut down the 2 clubs for intentional breaches.

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maybe we should just play football when we can,  rack up or scrape points as our capability allows ,  and let the process run , its course

plenty of scope for discussion without losing the rag, we  were in a false league position on league match performance, as much as , what, if, but allows for , even head to head recent history with squads shows we benefitted 

I'm not sure  about 'blatant' rule breaches ..... when nobody is giving clear indication, if they are  steadfast incorporated 'rules'  or guidance to continue operate as a league that clubs agreed to  , even as much as common sense applies,  if they are  solid rules , broken with legitimate punishment given, then that punishment usually stands , ideal ,

if not , then play fixtures?

alternatives if punishment handed out is deemed excessive?  points deductions? or score draws?  

I'm also wary of  demanding financial compensation for 'rule' breaches , when our own club has a history littered with call offs having failed to meet the requirements of the rules and regulations , no difference if it is covid 'rules' or playing surface rules , floodlight rules etc , IF  it's a rule break leading to a fixture not being played to the original schedule, to then financially compensate the other club would be an awful precedent set

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7 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

maybe we should just play football when we can,  rack up or scrape points as our capability allows ,  and let the process run , its course

plenty of scope for discussion without losing the rag, we  were in a false league position on league match performance, as much as , what, if, but allows for , even head to head recent history with squads shows we benefitted 

I'm not sure  about 'blatant' rule breaches ..... when nobody is giving clear indication, if they are  steadfast incorporated 'rules'  or guidance to continue operate as a league that clubs agreed to  , even as much as common sense applies,  if they are  solid rules , broken with legitimate punishment given, then that punishment usually stands , ideal ,

if not , then play fixtures?

alternatives if punishment handed out is deemed excessive?  points deductions? or score draws?  

I'm also wary of  demanding financial compensation for 'rule' breaches , when our own club has a history littered with call offs having failed to meet the requirements of the rules and regulations , no difference if it is covid 'rules' or playing surface rules , floodlight rules etc , IF  it's a rule break leading to a fixture not being played to the original schedule, to then financially compensate the other club would be an awful precedent set

There’s about a 20 page document on the SFA web site on the protocols to be followed for the return to football and both St Mirren and Killie by their own admission broke these protocols!!

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21 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

There’s about a 20 page document on the SFA web site on the protocols to be followed for the return to football and both St Mirren and Killie by their own admission broke these protocols!!

The SFA website?

Only  protocols ?

So not in the SPFL rules and regulations then?

PS, I’m being a bit facetious , everyone has their own conclusions’ most’  made without the ‘silly’ little details that could influence outcome and most  all made with a hint of bias 

I thought they were harshly punished in a public health pandemic, same as hearts, thistle etc, doesn’t mean I want it changed.

 

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1 hour ago, Brazilian said:

The SFA website?

Only  protocols ?

So not in the SPFL rules and regulations then?

PS, I’m being a bit facetious , everyone has their own conclusions’ most’  made without the ‘silly’ little details that could influence outcome and most  all made with a hint of bias 

I thought they were harshly punished in a public health pandemic, same as hearts, thistle etc, doesn’t mean I want it changed.

 

Documents protocols/rules call them what you were sent to every club 

Only saying so you can go and look for yourself ………… it’s all there in black and white.

Im sure the club have put videos out in the public domain showing players arriving for training in there cars by themselves in their trading gear and being told where to park and what part of the changing facilities at Dalziel to use .

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Embarrassing fallout of this. Authorities investigate (sensible as you'd expect), Clubs present their versions (their right), deliberated (procedural with facts), outcome (you'd imagine wateright), league table (altered or not), job done .......

Now we're adding in appeal and re-alteration of league table with potential to be re-re-altered back. Nothing should have been done until every avenue exhausted and all parties in agreement with outcome (if not result). Non negotiable timeframes imposed because speedy resolutions are important. Like red card appeals are heard on the Monday or Tuesday afterwards as if rescinded, the player is available for the next fixture opposed to sitting it out.

Nothing should have been done to the league table until this was finalised, it should not have taken 2 months. It could be argued that our opposition could have a sporting advantage over where they were. It's how Scotland got an unlikely 3 points in the Czech  Republic in the Nations League after all.

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6 hours ago, Goggles & Flippers said:

Nothing should have been done to the league table until this was finalised, it should not have taken 2 months. It could be argued that our opposition could have a sporting advantage over where they were. It's how Scotland got an unlikely 3 points in the Czech  Republic in the Nations League after all.

Exactly Goggles. Timescales should have been far tighter and tables unaltered until the final, final outcome. Another shambles.

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18 hours ago, Brazilian said:

The SFA website?

Only  protocols ?

So not in the SPFL rules and regulations then?

PS, I’m being a bit facetious , everyone has their own conclusions’ most’  made without the ‘silly’ little details that could influence outcome and most  all made with a hint of bias 

I thought they were harshly punished in a public health pandemic, same as hearts, thistle etc, doesn’t mean I want it changed.

 

The rules are they have to play the game. They chose not to by reporting social distancing violations rather than just relying on extra tests for their squad like the majority of teams in Europe will be doing. 

Accies and Hearts have both played this weekend despite having players out with Covid as have the Old Firm, Aberdeen and our club. If St Mirren and  Killie weren't punished then all of those games could have been called off if the clubs wanted to and the season would be heading towards a total farce.

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Even if we get the 6 points back we have fallen behind Livingston and they have a game in hand, we need some wins.

I have no wish to interpret whether anyone has broken the rules, give us the points or let us play the games, get on with it.

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5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Exactly Goggles. Timescales should have been far tighter and tables unaltered until the final, final outcome. Another shambles.

Once again, the SPFL make themselves look like idiots. I generally find things aren't as unreasonable as they first seem, however their communication is so vague that it leaves a void of information for us to surmise all sorts of incompetence. I've been saying this all year and have lost all sympathy for them. 

If my understanding is right, the notice of Appeal must be made within 5 days of the judgement (SFA Judicial Panel Protocol). The Protocol outlines that the determination must be suspended pending the appeal. I'm not sure if the SPFL would or could hand out a punishment and say it'll only be enforced at the end of the appeal period (maybe they can? who knows). 

However, the judgement was made on 3rd December and Killie and St Mirren announced their intention to appeal within a few days so I have no idea why it's taken another two weeks to suspend the determination.  

 

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3 hours ago, CoF said:

Once again, the SPFL make themselves look like idiots. I generally find things aren't as unreasonable as they first seem, however their communication is so vague that it leaves a void of information for us to surmise all sorts of incompetence. I've been saying this all year and have lost all sympathy for them. 

If my understanding is right, the notice of Appeal must be made within 5 days of the judgement (SFA Judicial Panel Protocol). The Protocol outlines that the determination must be suspended pending the appeal. I'm not sure if the SPFL would or could hand out a punishment and say it'll only be enforced at the end of the appeal period (maybe they can? who knows). 

However, the judgement was made on 3rd December and Killie and St Mirren announced their intention to appeal within a few days so I have no idea why it's taken another two weeks to suspend the determination.  

 

Or nearly another 3 weeks to hear the appeal......

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On 12/26/2020 at 4:02 PM, steelboy said:

I expect we'll get the points back but it might change depending on how many Celtic players get the virus on their Dubai trip. 

If Celtic don't field a team against Hibs we can forget all about those points. 

I don't think it's a coincidence the hearing is scheduled for the 14th.

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Interesting today that Derby County played their FA Cup tie without an entire first team squad and most of their Under 23s.

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The cynic in me is thinking that Celtic might not be too upset if they are docked points over protocol breaches on their Dubai jolly. It would give them an excuse to blame their failure in not achieving the mythical ten in a row on being the innocent victims in an establishment fit up.

I apologise in advance for my inherent cynicism. It is not an admirable trait.

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17 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Interesting today that Derby County played their FA Cup tie without an entire first team squad and most of their Under 23s.

 

17 hours ago, Ped_MFC said:

As did Villa last night.

And both of them were well beaten, 

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That's a Celtic player tested positive for covid after the jolly to Dubai. Will be interesting to see if that spreads to other team mates and so forth. If so I wonder if any potential postponements will be punished.

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