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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: St Mirren (A)

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I didn't like Fitzpatrick when he was a player in Fergie's niggly wee St Mirren team and he's an even bigger chancer now.

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45 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I didn't like Fitzpatrick when he was a player in Fergie's niggly wee St Mirren team and he's an even bigger chancer now.

Strangely, that is exactly what I was thinking. One of my favourite memories was that Scottish cup game at Fir Park and the fact that  Fergie didn't stop moaning about the game for weeks.:D

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57 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I didn't like Fitzpatrick when he was a player in Fergie's niggly wee St Mirren team and he's an even bigger TOSSER  now.

Ftfy

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Is it just another symptom of these crazy times that Tony Fitzpatrick appears to have turned into Lady Macbeth? Anyway, to paraphrase the Bard, methinks he doth protest too much.

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It is a bit concerning Mo Ross said Rangers were the best coached team in the league, given he coaches us.

I’d take issue with most of what he said, except the bit about st Mirren.

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16 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

It is a bit concerning Mo Ross said Rangers were the best coached team in the league, given he coaches us.

I’d take issue with most of what he said, except the bit about st Mirren.

He did say he would get in trouble with the gaffer.....

He strikes me as quite a knowledgeable guy and is well spoken. But for all that it is very naive to say some of the things he said. As an employee of any company you are better not to infer or state the competition is better in a live discussion even if it is true. 

In some ways I am glad he made his comments about St Mirren. Even if it is totally untrue it Throws the cat amongst the pigeons. One hopes if gets the SPFL to make any kind of decision coming up to 3 weeks after the Kilmarnock game. The silence is deafening. 

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13 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

It is a bit concerning Mo Ross said Rangers were the best coached team in the league, given he coaches us.

I’d take issue with most of what he said, except the bit about st Mirren.

Not that concerning. As much as I despise them, Rangers ARE the best coached team in the country! And MFC are a very very poorly coached team, but Im not sure how much of that is up to him tho as he isnt anything more than a first team coach helping apply the plans of Robbo & Las.

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On 10/19/2020 at 1:52 PM, weeyin said:

It's not nonsense. The clubs were told that if they want a full season there is only one free weekend in the schedule (and no winter break).

It's almost guaranteed there will be games postponed for weather during the winter, and even more likely there will be a spike in Coronavirus cases during that time too.

So if there are zero additional cancellations between now and the end of the season we can just about fit them in. We all know that isn't going to be the case.

And if there are no consequences, any team that wants to wait until they get key players back from injury can just decide to pull out 2 hours before kick-off.

I'm not saying you are wrong but I have it in my head that Doncaster said there was 3 free slots in the schedule when he was interviewed on the radio at the start of the season.

Even so it's going to be tricky negotiating the winter.

I think it's entirely possible we'll have a second season in a row that's not completed and given the stakes at the top of the league I'd imagine there is going to be carnage at the SPFL if that does transpire.

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You're probably right about the 3 slots. I think it was someone from the SFA I heard originally, but that might have been before they revamped the Betfred Cup format etc.

Anyway, I see they are already sounding out the clubs on how they want handle the situation if we end up in the same spot as last season.

That's why I'm in favour of awarding games to opponents if a team can't field a team. It's not ideal, but I can easily see a situation where some teams play 5 or 6 games less than others when the season needs to be called. That would make any formula  to determine league positions much more problematic.

Whatever we do, we need to agree now so everyone knows in advance how the rules will be applied.

 

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33 minutes ago, weeyin said:

You're probably right about the 3 slots. I think it was someone from the SFA I heard originally, but that might have been before they revamped the Betfred Cup format etc.

Anyway, I see they are already sounding out the clubs on how they want handle the situation if we end up in the same spot as last season.

That's why I'm in favour of awarding games to opponents if a team can't field a team. It's not ideal, but I can easily see a situation where some teams play 5 or 6 games less than others when the season needs to be called. That would make any formula  to determine league positions much more problematic.

Whatever we do, we need to agree now so everyone knows in advance how the rules will be applied.

 

Well if it is left up to the SPFL we should find out in season 25-26 what they would like to do for season 20-21. 

Killie game was 3 weeks ago FFS. Are they waiting for feedback from Hercule Poirot.  They will not award 3 points and a 3-0 win so tell us when the game can go ahead and same with St Mirren game. 

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51 minutes ago, weeyin said:

That's why I'm in favour of awarding games to opponents if a team can't field a team. It's not ideal, but I can easily see a situation where some teams play 5 or 6 games less than others when the season needs to be called. That would make any formula  to determine league positions much more problematic.

When Rangers and Celtic are battling out this 10 in a row thing I think it's unlikely teams will be awarded 0-3 results if they can't field a team and even if it does come in I foresee all sorts of shenanigans if it effected the bigger teams.  I mean they have bigger squads but as we've seen all it takes is a few players in different bubbles to be infected and that knocks a lot of players out of contention.  

Also, I think some of our supporters need to realise that Covid is probably more likely than not to visit our doorstep at some point and that it's entirely possible we could be relegated  because you are introducing a very random factor into which teams pick up points over the season.

Then on top of that there is the whole thing of teams having already had games postponed, rescheduled and played.  

The whole thing is not so much a can of worms, as a can of vicious cobras.

It might be that awarding results is the only way forward, I don't really know, but I see big trouble brewing.

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28 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

When Rangers and Celtic are battling out this 10 in a row thing I think it's unlikely teams will be awarded 0-3 results if they can't field a team and even if it does come in I foresee all sorts of shenanigans if it effected the bigger teams.  I mean they have bigger squads but as we've seen all it takes is a few players in different bubbles to be infected and that knocks a lot of players out of contention.  

Also, I think some of our supporters need to realise that Covid is probably more likely than not to visit our doorstep at some point and that it's entirely possible we could be relegated  because you are introducing a very random factor into which teams pick up points over the season.

Then on top of that there is the whole thing of teams having already had games postponed, rescheduled and played.  

The whole thing is not so much a can of worms, as a can of vicious cobras.

It might be that awarding results is the only way forward, I don't really know, but I see big trouble brewing.

I agree with all of that.

The one saving grace is that the teams all agreed to play a full season and both the cups in full knowledge that Covid was going to disrupt the schedule. So nobody is in a position to complain when we can't complete all the games.

As for teams getting relegated because of Covid, it's not really any different to teams getting relegated due to large numbers of injuries. It wasn't that long ago we were struggling when we had 10 first team players out of action.

I suppose other options again would be to extend the season - which raises the previous issue about contract expiration and extension - or allow affected teams to bring in additional players outside the window; but even if FIFA allowed that, it would favour the bigger teams.

I would be in favour of a compromise where maybe each team can postpone 3 or 4 games before forfeits kick in and maybe extending the season by a couple of weeks.

But again, all this needs to be decided now rather than in April.

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For me the completion of the first two rounds of fixtures is essential and should be the priority no matter what. At that stage everybody would have played each other twice, home and away, and league positions would be based on performance. Nobody could claim bias, whether relegated or Runners Up. If those two rounds are not fully completed then the League is voided and we start again whenever it is safe to do so.  For that reason catching up on cancelled fixtures should take priority over starting the third round of fixtures.

Thereafter I could maybe accept any early calling of the League, based on Points Per Game. But that raises the question of teams having possibly played immediate rivals away from home twice and only once at home, or perhaps having played more games against the OF than others. I don't think there is any solution that folk will agree on. But given the 10 in a row bullshit I am sure that any "discussions" this season will make last year's debacle seem like a walk in the park.

Regarding the forfeiture of points I am torn. Any Club could (and likely will) be hit by CoVid and it seems harsh to award points if the stricken Club has followed all procedures and taken all mitigating measures. But if a team has ignored agreed procedures, then I see a case for awarding points to the opposing team. But it should be recognised that players ignoring guidance in their "private" time is something a Club cannot control and be liable for.

I suspect a shambles is more likely than not.

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Just on the stv news, St Mirren reporting another 4 positive covid tests, they reckon the game v Hamilton on Saturday is very doubtful. 

Apparently thats the 4th time this season they have had an outbreak, which suggests repeated non compliance with procedures, yet still the SPFL do nothing.

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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Just on the stv news, St Mirren reporting another 4 positive covid tests, they reckon the game v Hamilton on Saturday is very doubtful. 

Apparently thats the 4th time this season they have had an outbreak, which suggests repeated non compliance with procedures, yet still the SPFL do nothing.

Yip becoming a farce … … Needs sorted and fast !!!!

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19 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Also, I think some of our supporters need to realise that Covid is probably more likely than not to visit our doorstep at some point and that it's entirely possible we could be relegated  because you are introducing a very random factor into which teams pick up points over the season.

ONE DAY LATER....

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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

ONE DAY LATER....

Indeed. All we can do now is wait and see whether the game is called off because we have less than 13 fit/available players and hope for the best.

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Covid already visited our club earlier in the season.

The question is whether or not we are following the appropriate protocols to prevent entire squads being infected.

If we can't fulfill the fixture I'd have no issues awarding Ross County 3 points as long as we get our 6 from Killie and St Mirren.

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On 10/18/2020 at 2:13 PM, ropy said:

If they are isolating, their game next week will be off too.

Well

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So can we all agree , that St.Mirren took responsible action last weekend isolating  the additional players and staff , then declaring they couldn’t play the match because of that action.

had they not isolated those players in addition to the one positive case on they day... 

and played the match with all those asymptomatic players that have now subsequently delivered positive results 

At best we’d all be questioning if they had caused our one case

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Brazilian said:

So can we all agree , that St.Mirren took responsible action last weekend isolating  the additional players and staff , then declaring they couldn’t play the match because of that action.

had they not isolated those players in addition to the one positive case on they day... 

and played the match with all those asymptomatic players that have now subsequently delivered positive results 

At best we’d all be questioning if they had caused our one case

 

 

Missing the point completely this is their 4th outbreak, which implies serial non compliance with the covid protocols, the 2nd game in a row they have had to pull out of a game.

Yes players will test positive, no protocols are perfect, but if they are followed the exposure should be contained to a couple of players at most.  Most of the other clubs don't seem to be having any trouble, so why can't St Mirren. 

So no I don't think St Mirren took responsible action last week, if they had the majority of their squad would have been available to play us.

We will  await the response from the SPFL 

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I see them as two different cases,

1: have they been unfortunate to have an outbreak at their club that due to the incubation period of this virus  and  even with protocols in place can still go player to player in training  whichhas  dragged on over  a long period

  OR

have they as a club and employer/employees  breached all the guidance to let it happen

And then

2. did they make up the potential risk last weekend to gain some advantage ?
Or

did they act responsibly on discovering the new case. and safeguard a cross team/region outbreak 


The SPFL investigation can look at how they manage their club and the staff behaviour, but I think they should be given credit for not putting our players at risk

again we’ll disagree on a few things , if the SPFL find wrong doing I’m for punishment,

but this virus is very contagious, protocols or not , one case in a club from  any player or staff members  public interactions can lead to a steady spread through the business due to the contagious nature , but also the variable incubation periods  and due to that even with testing it’s still a partial lottery, hence public health will often enforce at least two week lockdown on businesses that have that type of event 

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Just now, Brazilian said:

So can we all agree , that St.Mirren took responsible action last weekend isolating  the additional players and staff , then declaring they couldn’t play the match because of that action.

Well no Iain. We still don't know the facts.

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