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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Game 12: Celtic (H)

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4 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I just don’t think we raise our game against the old firm the way other clubs do, Accies and Livingstone two examples. We will never have players of the same standard, that’s just a given, they have more than one player that cost more than our entire squad. I just wish we didn’t ’ go into our shell and gave it a go at times. We looked terrified first half and again dispite what Lennon stated they are not that good, Rangers will win the league this season.

Thats pretty much it for me. I didn't expect to win given Celtic's far superior resources but I hoped we wouldn't make it easy for them. 

Currently, we can't afford to play a 4-3-3 formation against Celtic or Sevco. That formation renders strikers ineffective and puts the midfield and defence under great pressure. Our midfield was steamrollered and outfought.  Thats not to say that we lie back, as thats not the answer, but we need a more measured attacking formation.  We were vulnerable and caught out down the flanks and I really think Robbo should have rectified that early on but he didn't. 

On the field, most of the players looked intimidated and that showed. We defended far too deeply and didn't work hard enough to close players down when not in possession. Our strikers suffered from lack of support from midfield and just didn't show enough aggression or effort in closing the Celtic defence down. Too often our attack was laboured and slow with the 3 midfielders reluctant to commit themselves to attack, leaving the strikers unsupported.  It was noticeable when we had the ball, in a position to cross, we were closed down by 2 or 3 defenders. When Celtic were attacking down the flanks, our midfield didn't shield the full backs who in turn sat off the attacker. In short, lack of organisation, work ethic and worrying lack of  confidence. We also lacked a bit of character.  Yes, Celtic had far better players; quicker and more competitive/aggressive and that puts our failings into some kind of perspective. Individual failings, like Polworth's pass, also took their toll, but I wouldn't blame individuals. We defended poorly as a team and lost the goals due to multiple failings. Overall, one of Celtic's easier away games -  all they need to do these days is take to the pitch in their  green and white jerseys and thats enough to unsettle us. 

On the positive side, we had a decent spell after half time, as celtic eased off and did have a few chances but didn't get the luck we needed. I believe that Mugabi was on the pitch pre match so that must mean he's returning to fitness.   

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2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Agreed

Against the Old Firm it’s time to stop thinking we are better than we are, let’s be honest they both have got better footballing players than us so let’s just get back to basics, get in their faces hit anything that moves and if in doubt fuck it out rather than trying to play them at their own game.

Pretty much the way I see it. A "below par" Celtic easily disposed of an on form Aberdeen last week. The OF are on another level entirely and that has to be accepted. They would take the top two spots with a second string.

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3 minutes ago, Lan_Lad said:

Pretty much the way I see it. A "below par" Celtic easily disposed of an on form Aberdeen last week. The OF are on another level entirely and that has to be accepted. They would take the top two spots with a second string.

I agree up to a point. Over the course of a season their financial and other clout means that they will always come out top. However, in one off matches they can be beaten or at least points prised off them. Their away games so far this season have been 1-1 at Kilmarnock; 1-0 at Dundee United; 5-0 at Ross County; 2-1 at St Mirren; 2-0 at St Johnstone; and 3-3 at Aberdeen. So out of 6 other away games they have only bettered today's scoreline once, at Dingwall.

In the great scheme of things, we shouldn't expect to take points off them very often, but we should expect to compete better against them.

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15 minutes ago, Lan_Lad said:

Pretty much the way I see it. A "below par" Celtic easily disposed of an on form Aberdeen last week. The OF are on another level entirely and that has to be accepted. They would take the top two spots with a second string.

While that's true I've seen poorer Motherwell sides than the present one beat better Celtic sides than the current one.

Personally I think players are too lazy and don't have the heart for these types of games these days.  Players these days just don't want to extend themselves.  They are happy in their place and are fine picking up a wage for mediocrity. That doesn't sit well with me.  

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3 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I agree up to a point. Over the course of a season their financial and other clout means that they will always come out top. However, in one off matches they can be beaten or at least points prised off them. Their away games so far this season have been 1-1 at Kilmarnock; 1-0 at Dundee United; 5-0 at Ross County; 2-1 at St Mirren; 2-0 at St Johnstone; and 3-3 at Aberdeen. So out of 6 other away games they have only bettered today's scoreline once, at Dingwall.

In the great scheme of things, we shouldn't expect to take points off them very often, but we should expect to compete better against them.

I think you are being unduly harsh Dave.  What I will agree with is that to play the same team and formation as we did v Ross C and Livi was bold to say the least and it meant Frimpong and Laxalt had the freedom of Fir Park at times. 

Damned if you do dammed if you don’t. We shut up shop and lose 2-0 and fans will say why did we not have a go. We have a go and we lose 4 goals and we say why did we not play more defensive. 

We needed a little more luck on the day. Ajer could easily have scored an own goal. Land would have been a soft penalty but we have seen them given against us plenty of times v the Old firm. We have lost our most capable keeper and I think he would have done better than  Chapman at goals 1 and 3. 

Rangers put 8 past Hamilton. The gap and resources are getting wider and so these results will be more commonplace. 

Disappointed but a few mistakes aside I though we competed well especially early part of the second half. 

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Our biggest problem against the old firm is we don’t (or can’t) compete for the whole 90 mins. We look good in parts but seldom do it for the whole game which is what is needed if you’re ever going to get a result against them.

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3 minutes ago, santheman said:

Our biggest problem against the old firm is we don’t (or can’t) compete for the whole 90 mins. We look good in parts but seldom do it for the whole game which is what is needed if you’re ever going to get a result against them.

This. We made four howling defensive mistakes that you'd get away with against most teams in the league. We also nearly had the ball in the net on what, three occasions today ?

 

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Look at Robinson's initial run of form against both OF sides at Fir Park. 1-2 loss against Rangers then 1-1, 0-0 and 1-1 vs Celtic and 2-2 and 3-3 against Rangers with a 2-0 win against Rangers at Hampden. Since we changed to the 433 in the 2nd half of 18/19 we've lost 0-3, 0-2, 1-5 to Rangers and 2-5, 0-4 and 1-4 to Celtic. Rodgers' Celtic team was way better then Lennon’s also.  Robinson's putting the team out and asking them to try and play football against them rather than just playing %s. For as long as I can remember losing 4 goals to the old firm at Fir Park was always a fairly regular thing. But so was nicking a win, draw and/or being competitive and/or keeping it respectable. Getting pumped every single time was never the norm.

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Frimpong bundled into Watt in the box, I don’t think it was a penalty but I keep thinking back to Sinclair at Hampden.

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36 minutes ago, milo said:

Look at Robinson's initial run of form against both OF sides at Fir Park. 1-2 loss against Rangers then 1-1, 0-0 and 1-1 vs Celtic and 2-2 and 3-3 against Rangers with a 2-0 win against Rangers at Hampden. Since we changed to the 433 in the 2nd half of 18/19 we've lost 0-3, 0-2, 1-5 to Rangers and 2-5, 0-4 and 1-4 to Celtic. Rodgers' Celtic team was way better then Lennon’s also.  Robinson's putting the team out and asking them to try and play football against them rather than just playing %s. For as long as I can remember losing 4 goals to the old firm at Fir Park was always a fairly regular thing. But so was nicking a win, draw and/or being competitive and/or keeping it respectable. Getting pumped every single time was never the norm.

In the last few years the ugly sisters teams have changed dramatically for the better, particularly the blue side, compare the team they have now to the one we faced in the playoff games.

So I don't think we have got worse , the two of them have improved and they are now so far ahead of any other team in Scotland.

Yes there will be the odd upset each season like Hamilton winning at Ibrox back in March, but truth be told the two of them are too good for the other 10 teams, its no accident that no other team has had a sniff at the league title other than those 2 in the last 34 years I think and it won't change anytime soon, Celtic are playing Hearts ffs for a 4th consecutive treble in a few weeks, thats how dominant  they are domestically. 

So we have 10 teams playing for 3r or 4th and a European place, maybe even 5th this year, thats their title challenge and in that respect, we are not far off the pace, so forget games against the uglies, its the other 9 teams we play that matter. 

 

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18 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I just don’t think we raise our game against the old firm the way other clubs do, Accies and Livingstone two examples. We will never have players of the same standard, that’s just a given, they have more than one player that cost more than our entire squad. I just wish we didn’t ’ go into our shell and gave it a go at times. We looked terrified first half and again dispite what Lennon stated they are not that good, Rangers will win the league this season.

I think Accies were unlucky today though

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The game was 2-1  with 14 minutes to go, so we weren't as out of it as some are suggesting, maybe go as far to say that we were the better team in the second half?  once we got that goal we should have tried to keep it tight til at least the 80th minute and then went for it, as it happens, we never lasted that long, The scoreline suggested a thumping but it was far from it, Celtic were clinical, as they often are. 5 proper chances, took 4 of them. Maybe there was some naivety on our part that we thought we could have got an equaliser and went for it too early.  Some silly mistakes cost us, Polworth playing that pass when it was definitely not on. Maybe that is why teams like Livingston or Killie get some success, they won't try those passes, rightly or wrongly that is put out for a shy, lumped up the park.

Going forward, we looked dangerous, we created some decent chances, and against Celtic you need to take them.  

Also Devante cole's challenge has went relatively under the radar, we should have been down to 10....not sure how  any of the officials missed it.

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48 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

Also Devante Cole's challenge has went relatively under the radar, we should have been down to 10....not sure how  any of the officials missed it.

They didn't miss it. He was given a yellow card. 

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30 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

They didn't miss it. He was given a yellow card. 

I'm aware of that, but it should have been a red so i'd still say they missed it.

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Like they miss most things ……… It happened right in front of the 4th official and Lennon was only about 10ft from it … if he thought it was that bad he would have been screaming like a banshee 

Agree it looked bad but don’t think there was any malice in it 

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Talking to a Celtic fan last night at work and he said that most Celtic fans look forward to games against us as they have a good chance of seeing a good game of football instead of watching their team trying to break down defence teams.  A Rangers fan then agreed saying we were about the only team that tries to play football against them. 
Both said for that reason they always hope Motherwell do well and make the top six. 
 

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16 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:

Talking to a Celtic fan last night at work and he said that most Celtic fans look forward to games against us as they have a good chance of seeing a good game of football instead of watching their team trying to break down defence teams.  A Rangers fan then agreed saying we were about the only team that tries to play football against them. 
Both said for that reason they always hope Motherwell do well and make the top six. 
 

Tell them both, to take their face for a shite, the patronising fannies

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7 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

Talking to a Celtic fan last night at work and he said that most Celtic fans look forward to games against us as they have a good chance of seeing a good game of football instead of watching their team trying to break down defence teams.  A Rangers fan then agreed saying we were about the only team that tries to play football against them. 
Both said for that reason they always hope Motherwell do well and make the top six. 
 

The likelihood of taking 3 points and improving their goal difference probably comes into their thinking as well.

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Polworth has completely bottled it every time we have come up against the Old Firm since he joined. He's clearly not got the mentality for these matches and should be left out the team.

The defending for the second and third goals was absymal. Shocking from McGinley, McGuire and O'Donnell. 

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3 hours ago, steelboy said:

The defending for the second and third goals was absymal. Shocking from McGinley, McGuire and O'Donnell. 

Defending for all 4 goals was poor and whilst some individuals did make blunders, the team as a whole defended poorly. Some of that was down to individuals ansd some down an overly bold 4-3-3- formation.  In defence of McGinley and O'Donnell, they were hung out to dry by the overworked and underresourced midfield. Our midfield could in turn point the finger at the strikers who could have put themselves about a bit more to close down advancing defenders. Catch 22. 

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Defending for all 4 goals was poor and whilst some individuals did make blunders, the team as a whole defended poorly. Some of that was down to individuals ansd some down an overly bold 4-3-3- formation.  In defence of McGinley and O'Donnell, they were hung out to dry by the overworked and underresourced midfield. Our midfield could in turn point the finger at the strikers who could have put themselves about a bit more to close down advancing defenders. Catch 22. 

Yes, it’s easy to blame individuals for the result but for me it comes down to the performance of the whole team. One area failing puts extra pressure on another and when you’re  playing a team of technically better players these mistakes get punished in a way they would not against an inferior team. Celtic really put away just about every chance they got, only Rangers can match that.

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14 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Yes, it’s easy to blame individuals for the result but for me it comes down to the performance of the whole team. One area failing puts extra pressure on another and when you’re  playing a team of technically better players these mistakes get punished in a way they would not against an inferior team. Celtic really put away just about every chance they got, only Rangers can match that.

Yep

The whole team needs to be on top of their game for the full 90 mins even then you need the rub of the green which we haven’t had much of against them recently

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