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Stephen Robinson resignation discussion

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5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Despite the fact that, as an innocent party, we incurred additional costs, have been faced with long and continuing uncertainty and could face a fixture pile up? 

Specifically I'm talking about the 6 points and the league position but if you want to go in that direction I don't see any difference with any other kind of postponement.

Do you reimburse a team costs if your pitch fails a late inspection or, as had several times at Fir Park, there are infrastructure failures? 

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I do have sympathy for the club.  I have no strong opinion on whether or how St Mirren and Killie should be punished.  The points should not have been awarded while there was still course to appeal.

But given that they were awarded, we have now been messed about through no fault of our own.  As innocent bystanders we were given something then a few weeks later and a few hours before a match it has been taken away from us with no clarity on how things will move on.

Theoretically in midweek we may have gone all out for a winner but due to our relative safe position in 5th we determined that hanging on to one point was a good result.

Theoretically.

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44 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

How were we in a false position? St Mirren and Killie were both at it big time, blatant disregard of the covid rules, both of them rightly found guilty, so by there actions they  were unable to fulfill their fixtures sothey both got what they deserved.

Motherwell and Hamilton were both available to play so have done nothing wrong. They don't seem to be appealing the league Cup forfeits, so they are both at it again , it's a feckin embarrassment to Scottish football.

We got 6 points for nothing.  If you want to make out those points were earned go ahead.  You can argue whether the points should have been awarded or not, but you can't say they were earned, especially since our form has been shocking for pretty much the whole calendar year.

I'd be interested to know if you've read the report (is it even public?) since you claim 'big time, blatant disregard of covid rules' and how the findings of the report and the SPFL rules interact, I guess we'll find out during the appeals process.

Perhaps  we'll get the points back but in the meantime we have the correct number of points from our win/draw/loses and I don't see how you can say that is false.  Today our true performance from the season is reflected in the table.  It wasn't yesterday.

And I think the main thing to take away from this is the points should never have been awarded before the whole process was over and done with.  They should either have been awarded without appeal or not awarded until the process was complete. 

What has happened has made everyone look foolish.

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16 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Specifically I'm talking about the 6 points and the league position but if you want to go in that direction I don't see any difference with any other kind of postponement.

Do you reimburse a team costs if your pitch fails a late inspection or, as had several times at Fir Park, there are infrastructure failures? 

There is a big difference between these postponements and "normal" postponements.  In both these cases, the clubs concerned blatantly reached Coronavirus rules/guidance and admitted doing so.  These were not highly complicated or technical issues but basic common sense, that a layman could easily follow. Guidelines that we're all expected to follow, whether you're a shop assistant or chef. In normal circumstances, postponements are down to matters, such as weather or  equipment failures such as power cuts, outwith clubs' control.

If we can take this a step further, would you advocate placing any restrictions on the players that can be selected by both teams, should the games be rearranged?  

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16 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

There is a big difference between these postponements and "normal" postponements.  In both these cases, the clubs concerned blatantly reached Coronavirus rules/guidance and admitted doing so.  These were not highly complicated or technical issues but basic common sense, that a layman could easily follow. Guidelines that we're all expected to follow, whether you're a shop assistant or chef. In normal circumstances, postponements are down to matters, such as weather or  equipment failures such as power cuts, outwith clubs' control.

If we can take this a step further, would you advocate placing any restrictions on the players that can be selected by both teams, should the games be rearranged?  

Just off the top of my head Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen have all had blatant breaches of Covid regulations, some of which have resulted in match postponements.

None of which have been punished to the extent that Kilmarnock and St Mirren have.

As usual with Scottish football the rules are being made up haphazardly and applied inconsistently usually in the favour of the bigger teams.

The SPFL had the chance to form consistent rules way back at the beginning of the season and choose instead to create a risible muddle.  I guarantee you if Motherwell had been treated the way Kilmarnock and St Mirren have Motherwell fans would be up in arms at the inconsistencies.

But let's get back to the original point.  We've won 4 out of 17 matches played this season. Our position right now is a truer reflection of out performance this season than it was with the awarded points.  And the SPFL are a bunch of clowns who couldn't run day trips to Ayr beach.  

As for your last point - what is the difference between a player being suspended for a match, that match being postponed and then the same player being available for the re-arranged fixture?  All it takes is one player to catch covid and introduce it to others.  Are you suspending players for not being available to play or being ill?  Good luck with the players unions on that when win and appearance bonuses are on the line.  Remember you don't even have to have covid to be unavailable for a match.

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4 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We've won 4 out of 17 matches played this season. Our position right now is a truer reflection of out performance this season than it was with the awarded points.

This ^^^
No hiding from the fact that this is relegation form.

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15 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Just off the top of my head Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen have all had blatant breaches of Covid regulations, some of which have resulted in match postponements.

None of which have been punished to the extent that Kilmarnock and St Mirren have.

As usual with Scottish football the rules are being made up haphazardly and applied inconsistently usually in the favour of the bigger teams.

The SPFL had the chance to form consistent rules way back at the beginning of the season and choose instead to create a risible muddle.  I guarantee you if Motherwell had been treated the way Kilmarnock and St Mirren have Motherwell fans would be up in arms at the inconsistencies.

But let's get back to the original point.  We've won 4 out of 17 matches played this season. Our position right now is a truer reflection of out performance this season than it was with the awarded points.  And the SPFL are a bunch of clowns who couldn't run day trips to Ayr beach.  

As for your last point - what is the difference between a player being suspended for a match, that match being postponed and then the same player being available for the re-arranged fixture?  All it takes is one player to catch covid and introduce it to others.  Are you suspending players for not being available to play or being ill?  Good luck with the players unions on that when win and appearance bonuses are on the line.  Remember you don't even have to have covid to be unavailable for a match.

The vast majority of Motherwell fans that I know never entirely agreed with the fact we were given 6 points. But that was the decision taken by the SPFL. Worth also noting that the Celtic and Aberdeen games were stopped by the Govt. Both teams were prepared to play. 

Dundee United fielded a team (with as many players affected by Covid)as St Mirren and Killie. Perhaps the knowledge they could forfeit the game 3-0 played a part.

Also worth pointing out that our form when these games were due to be played was better than it is now. I would have been confident of taking 4 points out of 6. Now....

We have not had a good season and yes the table now better reflects our form. But to almost dismiss that this clusterfuck is or may have no detrimental effect on Motherwell when we had nothing to do with the initial cancellations nor the punishment is a little bizarre. 

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55 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We got 6 points for nothing.

We never got 6 points for nothing , we got them because our opposition in both games blatantly broke the rules, so sanctions were applied accordingly.

The whole SFA/ SPFL process is a shambles, St Mirren  and Killie both admitted the rule breaches, now they are whinging about the sanction applied, by appealing, its like pleading guilty to murder and then appealing at a life sentence being too harsh.

But both of them are playing the system to their advantage, just like clubs do when appealing a red card to enable the player to play until the appeal is heard, as I have said the whole system is not fit for purpose .

So now the appeal no doubt goes back to the same SPFL sub committee to debate if their own original verdict was wrong or too harsh, you could not make this shite up.

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What an absolute shambles,the folk in charge of our game are a joke.the league table doesn't make for good viewing now,we need to forget about they 6 points been giving back and get the finger out and start winning games and quick.

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1 hour ago, ropy said:

I do have sympathy for the club.  I have no strong opinion on whether or how St Mirren and Killie should be punished.  The points should not have been awarded while there was still course to appeal.

But given that they were awarded, we have now been messed about through no fault of our own.  As innocent bystanders we were given something then a few weeks later and a few hours before a match it has been taken away from us with no clarity on how things will move on.

Theoretically in midweek we may have gone all out for a winner but due to our relative safe position in 5th we determined that hanging on to one point was a good result.

Theoretically.

Nah, we knew an appeal was pending. I'm sure someone at the club was capable of getting the calculator out and working out that we could be 3rd bottom at any point.

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3 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Just off the top of my head Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen have all had blatant breaches of Covid regulations, some of which have resulted in match postponements.

None of which have been punished to the extent that Kilmarnock and St Mirren have.

As usual with Scottish football the rules are being made up haphazardly and applied inconsistently usually in the favour of the bigger teams.

The SPFL had the chance to form consistent rules way back at the beginning of the season and choose instead to create a risible muddle.  I guarantee you if Motherwell had been treated the way Kilmarnock and St Mirren have Motherwell fans would be up in arms at the inconsistencies.

But let's get back to the original point.  We've won 4 out of 17 matches played this season. Our position right now is a truer reflection of out performance this season than it was with the awarded points.  And the SPFL are a bunch of clowns who couldn't run day trips to Ayr beach.  

As for your last point - what is the difference between a player being suspended for a match, that match being postponed and then the same player being available for the re-arranged fixture?  All it takes is one player to catch covid and introduce it to others.  Are you suspending players for not being available to play or being ill?  Good luck with the players unions on that when win and appearance bonuses are on the line.  Remember you don't even have to have covid to be unavailable for a match.

The Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen breaches were personal breaches by players, rather than admitted breaches by the club, so there is a major difference in these cases from St Mirren and Killie.

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6 points given or 6 points taken who gives hoot!We have been utterly rank rotten lets be honest,very few players get pass marks for me even if we got 3 points today doesn't paper up the cracks how bad its been.

Tony Watt and I wasn't his biggest fan now I am.If it wasn't for him,his work rate,his goals,we be in a deeper mess.

 

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6 wins in 28 league games in 2020 is shocking.

Played Celtic & Rangers 3 times each, 6 losses losing nearly 4 goals a game on average (3,3,3,4,4,5)

9 of those league games have been against Ross County, Hamilton & St Mirren. Weve won 2 of those games (both Ross County) and lost 5 of them. We have won a grand total of 2 points from 6 games v Hamilton & St Mirren. 

And in that time the quality in our squad has decreased dramatically at the hands of our management team

We are poorly coached , poorly organized, have poor fitness levels and are mentally weak.  At least in the last 2 weeks we look far better organized but even then we are literally giving the opposition goals and failing to win from comfortable positions.

Robbo may keep us in the league, but I dont trust him with another transfer window! He has to go

 

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With friends ( supporters?) like the people on this forum, who needs enemies?

 I have had a lengthy break from the forum and have come back to realise that not only is sacking the manager still a hot topic but a new thread has been created to kick the boot in further.

 I have made the points several times in defence of the club and the manager so not going to go over old ground but on the 6 points let’s try and remember that the club were not responsible for being given them or having them taken away.

What they have been responsible for it keeping their house in order regarding Covid protocol when other clubs have struggled.

 I see the poster above saying that but for Tony Watt we would be in deeper trouble. This is the same Tony Watt that has been notoriously hard to manage and has found form and a sense of belonging at a club because he is well managed.

Had a bit of a sigh when I saw this thread at the top of the board so all the encouragement I need to have a longer break.

All the very best to the club and the manager going into the NY.

 I am very confident that they will turn our fortunes round.

Merry Christmas fellow Well fans. Hope to see us all back at Fir Park soon.

Stay safe.

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Merry Xmas Smiddy would expect he will be out shortly if we don't beat Accies but to many people on here wae their heed in the sand and the 2020 stats didn't actually occur . I expect it will be a good start tae the new year when he gets sacked 

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well they did play well  and were on top for most of the game, it wasnt robbo who missed the chances, although it was him who made the subs ,  we made plenty chances but didnt score  again when we were on top, if we dont win vs killie then yaccies you may well get your 18 month old wish 

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27 minutes ago, smiddy said:

has yodo said his piece yet ????    just asking  like 

He’s still adding up the points

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Today was similar to the start of the season where we were dominating matches but not coming away with the points.  We might not be far away but it all seems so elusive.

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4 hours ago, AllyMax said:

The Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen breaches were personal breaches by players, rather than admitted breaches by the club, so there is a major difference in these cases from St Mirren and Killie.

Dundee United wasn't.  It was a team photo.

Which brings us back to the point - are we punishing teams for breaches of protocol or are we punishing teams if they can't fulfil a fixture?

Seems like the authorities aren't quite sure themselves.

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3 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Dundee United wasn't.  It was a team photo.

Which brings us back to the point - are we punishing teams for breaches of protocol or are we punishing teams if they can't fulfil a fixture?

Seems like the authorities aren't quite sure themselves.

Every breach of protocol should be investigated and if the club , player,  employee etc is found liable then the sanction should be appropriate to the impact of the breach, there is a big difference between a breach during a team photo with no ongoing effects to a team failing to fulfill its fixtures.

But the fuckwits at the SPFL are shit scared of setting a precedent that might come back to bite them, the teams know this and will take advantage accordingly. 

Break the rules/ protocols or whatever they are called, and get sanctioned, its not a difficult concept to impose.

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8 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Every breach of protocol should be investigated and if the club , player,  employee etc is found liable then the sanction should be appropriate to the impact of the breach, there is a big difference between a breach during a team photo with no ongoing effects to a team failing to fulfill its fixtures.

No ongoing effects?  There was a covid outbreak at the club.  

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24 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

No ongoing effects?  There was a covid outbreak at the club.  

Yes there was, and every outbreak is potentially very serious, but by no ongoing effects I meant no  scheduled matches postponed at short notice as was the case with St Mirren  and Killie.

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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Which brings us back to the point - are we punishing teams for breaches of protocol or are we punishing teams if they can't fulfil a fixture?

Just to be crystal clear, Kilmarnock and St Mirren are being punished for breaches of protocol so serious that they were unable to fulfil a fixture.

In the interests of consistency I'm surprised that Kilmarnock appealed, given that about 2 years ago they made an official complaint about our women's team (who won 1-0 on the day) for failing to give them a copy of our teamsheet on time. They were awarded the game 3-0. 

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