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Andy_P

Season 2020’21: Game 18: Dundee Utd (A)

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I'm always going on about big drops in standard, well, I grew up in an era of managers, never mind players, managers of the calibre of Alex Ferguson, Jim McLean, Jock Stein as well as Tommy McLean, Jock Wallace, Walter Smith, Archie Knox, Alex Miller, Alex Smith etc, etc.

There is no one in the game now anywhere near even the least of these guys.

It's a shame Dundee United fell just short a couple of times in Europe but none the less Jim McLean was one of the great managers of his era at continental level, not just at domestic level.

The game has changed and I'm the product of the era of my youth but I think the changes have been to the detriment of Scottish football.  These guys were giants and few were taller than Jim McLean.

 

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34 minutes ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

Genuine Scottish football legend. The only manager to banjo a journalist for having the audacity to ask an awkward question. Jim and his brother Tommy were two of the greater things to happy to Scottish football in the 80’s and 90’s. RIP Jim

Your, I assume, unintentional, use of happy ( sometimes predictive spellcheck is not your friend) made me smile as it is certainly not what you would describe the McLean brothers as. I remember Jim saying he called Tommy the grumpy one in the family.

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7 minutes ago, The African said:

Your, I assume, unintentional, use of happy ( sometimes predictive spellcheck is not your friend) made me smile as it is certainly not what you would describe the McLean brothers as. I remember Jim saying he called Tommy the grumpy one in the family.

Ha ha glum jum as he was affectionately known

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You have to question Bobby Madden's motives when he penalised Trevor Carson for taking too long, with the ball in our box. It must be many years since I've seen that particular infringement punished. Why on earth now?  Will his supervisor question him about it? We should certainly ask the SFA for clarification if this particular infringement is still being punished. Out of all the thousands of football matches that have taken place you have to ask why a referee would suddenly and randomly single out this incident.

Its similar, but for worse than random punishments for foul throws which we see week in week out, but are not punished.

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Disappointed with the manner of the draw, but more positive about the season than I was before the game. We actually had a clue and a tempo today. 

That concludes my analysis. 

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Jim McLean won the league and got a provincial Scottish club to the semi finals of the European Cup! Just think about that for a minute.

RIP Jim.

Actual Scottish football legend.

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A lapse cost us the goal but what cost us all 3 points was our failure to convert chances. We should have been out of sight long before injury time but when we don't take clear chances and end up protecting a 1 goal lead we're going to find ourselves in this position often. Lang squandered everything that came his way, could have had a hatrick and cant believe he didnt slip polwarth in, before missing the target entirely.

Said I'd accept a 0-0 shitfest so looking at it objectively I'm happy, just disappointed in the nature of it. Favourite moment was seeing carson go mental at one of our midfielders - that type of character is what we've been missing from the starting 11 recently, someone who's standards drive up standards of the rest. Great to see him back.

Jim mclean is before my era but always sad to hear of the passing of such characters from the game! RIP Jim!

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8 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

You have to question Bobby Madden's motives when he penalised Trevor Carson for taking too long, with the ball in our box. It must be many years since I've seen that particular infringement punished. Why on earth now?  Will his supervisor question him about it? We should certainly ask the SFA for clarification if this particular infringement is still being punished. Out of all the thousands of football matches that have taken place you have to ask why a referee would suddenly and randomly single out this incident.

Its similar, but for worse than random punishments for foul throws which we see week in week out, but are not punished.

Aye and the 2 handball penalties he gave Rangers …… this guy has got an agenda !!!

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2 hours ago, mfc88 said:

A lapse cost us the goal but what cost us all 3 points was our failure to convert chances. We should have been out of sight long before injury time but when we don't take clear chances and end up protecting a 1 goal lead we're going to find ourselves in this position often. Lang squandered everything that came his way, could have had a hatrick and cant believe he didnt slip polwarth in, before missing the target entirely.

Said I'd accept a 0-0 shitfest so looking at it objectively I'm happy, just disappointed in the nature of it. Favourite moment was seeing carson go mental at one of our midfielders - that type of character is what we've been missing from the starting 11 recently, someone who's standards drive up standards of the rest. Great to see him back.

Jim mclean is before my era but always sad to hear of the passing of such characters from the game! RIP Jim!

Watched the highlights and Lang was frustrating.  He should have slid in Polworth but given recent history Polworth would have only put it past the post or over the bar in any case. For me the worst one was when the ball came to him outside the box and Watt was standing in front of him on the edge of the box in a MUCH better position. He should have passed to Watt no question. That is the difference between a good player and an average one. 

I was livid when we conceded yet another late goal, but should accept we were the better team away to Dundee Utd. That only counts if we can now take between 4 and 6 points from the next two games. That and ensuring if we do go one or two goals up that we do not concede another late goal. 50% of goals conceded in the last 20 minutes of games is an appalling stat. I hope Robbo is well aware of this. Judging by hi subs he does not seem to care. Clearly going by those stats his subs are 9 times out of 10 weakening us. That is squarely on the Management team. 

 

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A tough one to take but I can't say the equaliser wasn't expected given how many chances we had passed up to put the game to bed.  There are games where you just get the feeling that there is a sting in the tail coming and so it proved.

It's an outcome I would probably have been pretty content with beforehand but given the fact we were ahead, dominant for the vast majority of the game and had so many opportunities to kill them off then it is without question a couple of points dropped. Unfortunately it also feels like we've been masters of our own downfall to a certain extent too with some poor decision making towards the end of the game.

Performance wise it was pretty decent. In fact over the last three games which some were writing off completely, they've probably performed better than anticipated.  The next two however are much more about simply getting as many points on the board as possible, with performances secondary.

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Although its hard to take the loss of a 93rd minute goal and consequent loss of 2 points, I'm relieved that United only scored in the 93rd minute and not the 83rd minute. If they had done we might well be looking at the loss of yet another point.

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Lang used Polworth as a decoy, as the defender had to be wary of that pass it opened up for Lang in a more central position.  The issue is that he missed the target. The other option would have seen a pass back from Polworth.

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Just watched highlights,  Lang single-handedly kept utd in that game, Wigan having a laugh if they rate him at £300k, and yet another goal caused by a defender leaving it,  we had Mugabi ducking out a header last week and this time Lamie let's it run past him. Very frustrating and massive 2 games coming up

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11 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

You have to question Bobby Madden's motives when he penalised Trevor Carson for taking too long, with the ball in our box. It must be many years since I've seen that particular infringement punished. Why on earth now?  Will his supervisor question him about it? We should certainly ask the SFA for clarification if this particular infringement is still being punished. Out of all the thousands of football matches that have taken place you have to ask why a referee would suddenly and randomly single out this incident.

Its similar, but for worse than random punishments for foul throws which we see week in week out, but are not punished.

Scottish refereeing is a wee clique/ old chums act with the same old faces getting the top  Premiership game(ugly sisters)regardless of their display/ competencies ,with the next level deemed not good enough to do the ugly sisters games yet ,but we get these clowns week in week out, Colin Steven at yesterday’s Ross County/St Midden is a prime example never officiated the ugly sisters, been on the cat one list since 2013.......are the rules different for matches concerning the old firm ???? ..........silly me !!!

Imagine the reaction  if Madden had did this in an old firm match

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18 hours ago, Yodo said:

Better performance lapse  in concentration cost us . For the substitutions alone he showed why he is not the man to take the club forward  

Look on the bright side, had it not been for the 92bd minute equalizer,  you wouldn't have been posting last night.

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18 hours ago, ropy said:

Excellent performance today.

Then came the subs.

If it's the goal we lost , from memory the young lad Cornelius got caught on the ball? Hopefully we are not going to be overly critical , he will learn from it . 

Odonnell tried that shot , but I need to watch highlights to remember the time line between that and the goal. I think he thought shooting would be better than crossing, which isn't his strong point.

Hes been ok for us , but I wouldn't be bursting the bank to keep him

It's a pity Crawford couldn't stay on. Him and Campbell look good together.

Tony watt looked really sharp too.

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18 hours ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

I’ve seen some shite forwards in my 40 years watching Motherwell but Jordan white is right up  there

He may be or not, hes not had enough of a run yet.

He wins a few in the air , defo unfair to criticise him yesterday .

On the plus side, he looks a sharp dresser off the park.

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17 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

The usual suspects leaving the fault directly at the managers door I see...

...I'm nae happy Clapper, but that today was as good as I've seen us play for a while, up to a point. The point where we stopped being good was when we needed to get the ball in the net...we were wasteful in the extreme, particularly Lang and Polworth, with decision making in the final third being absolutely ridiculous at times.

 

Defensively we looked ok, with Lamie having a decent game and Crawford protecting the defence well.

 

We can discuss, subs and 'why did he do that' or 'why didn't he do that', and I do find the perseverance with White to be strange, but do we even know if Cole is 100% fit, or Maguire has trained all week? 

 

In my opinion, we lost two points today after a decent performance where Utd weren't really ay the races, and we lost  the points because we didnt take our chances, rather than because of substitutions.

Maguire might turn out to be a star , he hasn't done anything yet, to make me think that, but another one who I haven't seen enough of.He does seem to be becoming a better player on here by not playing??

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11 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Jim McLean won the league and got a provincial Scottish club to the semi finals of the European Cup! Just think about that for a minute.

RIP Jim.

Actual Scottish football legend.

If memory serves, did he only use 14 players that season?? We use more than that in a game now.Him and Ferguson put a bomb up the Glasgow pair,  never be done again  , I doubt. Some of his methods wouldn't be tolerated by modern day players tho. 

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4 hours ago, ropy said:

I wonder what the goals for v the goals against is for the minutes that White has been on the pitch.

Lockdown Sunday boredom  ........has started 3 games (subbed twice) came on as a sub 12 

we have  won 3 ,drawn 5 and lost 7 in the games he has played,all the defeats he has came on as sub we were already losing, except one

The  3 games he has started we were unbeaten when he was on the park 2-2 Livy completed the game ,0-0 Easter Road subbed ,Accies 0-0 when he was subbed  ended 0-1

When he has been on the  pitch we have  scored  2 goals for 10   goals against  ..seven of them were against  the ugly sisters (4 games)..... the other three were  draws yesterday and Livy 2-2  home.......

Stats taken from Soccerbase 

Time for a drink .......

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9 minutes ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

Lockdown Sunday boredom  ........has started 3 games (subbed twice) came on as a sub 12 

we have  won 3 ,drawn 5 and lost 7 in the games he has played 

The  3 games he has started we were unbeaten when he was on the park 2-2 Livy completed the game ,0-0 Easter Road subbed ,Accies 0-0 when he was subbed  ended 0-1

When he has been on the  pitch we have  scored  2 goals for 10   goals against  ..seven of them were against  the ugly sisters (4 games)when he came on as a sub when already getting beat...... the other three were  draws yesterday and Livy 2-2  home.......

Stats taken from Soccerbase 

Time for a drink .......

So start him if we must but never bring him on as a sub

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1 hour ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

Lockdown Sunday boredom  ........has started 3 games (subbed twice) came on as a sub 12 

we have  won 3 ,drawn 5 and lost 7 in the games he has played,all the defeats he has came on as sub we were already losing

Were we not 1-1 at Ibrox when he came on?

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15 minutes ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

Correct......sacked the researcher .....  6 minutes on the park before 2-1

It was the two goals last week plus yesterday’s that made me think it might add up

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