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SteelmaninOZ

Dundee United v Motherwell 23/10/2021

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The only way I would be playing O'Donnell in terms of giving the guy a chance would be to change formation to a 3-5-2 (0r 5-3-2) dependant on attack/defence.

Kelly

Sondre, Ojala, Mugabi

O'Donnell, Slattery, Goss, Donnelly, Carroll,

Watt, Van Veen

Accomodating this make us more solid in midfield - but completely lacks width. Would be dull and not much fun, but may get results.

 

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I don't understand why we're talking about O'Donnell as if he's some inconsistent roll of the dice type signing? He's the club captain, Scottish internationalist and pretty much a mainstay if he's fit. 

His inclusion isn't up for debate if he's fit and available I don't think. 

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2 hours ago, wunderwell said:

The only way I would be playing O'Donnell in terms of giving the guy a chance would be to change formation to a 3-5-2 (0r 5-3-2) dependant on attack/defence.

Kelly

Sondre, Ojala, Mugabi

O'Donnell, Slattery, Goss, Donnelly, Carroll,

Watt, Van Veen

Accomodating this make us more solid in midfield - but completely lacks width. Would be dull and not much fun, but may get results.

 

I think this is a very good starting 11 and although not brilliant as regards width it will be a strong team that wont lose very much. A bit more width could be introduced for specific games or at times during matches but, all in all, I like this team.

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3 hours ago, David said:

I don't understand why we're talking about O'Donnell as if he's some inconsistent roll of the dice type signing? He's the club captain, Scottish internationalist and pretty much a mainstay if he's fit.

Firstly David,  it's a discussion forum and fans will always have different opinions on players. That's life. I and a few others it would seem have concerns about his performances in claret and amber. Even at our level he's cost us a few goals and made more than his share of mistakes (yes, no one is perfect). Last Saturday's defending for Celtic's first goal was not what you expect from an experienced defender. Status means nothing during 90 minutes on the pitch. It's what you do that matters. He seems to be a model pro off the pitch and conducts himself well. No doubt GA knows him far better than we do and he's the manager, but that doesn't prevent fans from having opinions.

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5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Firstly David,  it's a discussion forum and fans will always have different opinions on players.

:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Back of the net! :cheers:

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Re O'Donnell, no one can argue he hasnt made mistakes this season, or that his performances havent been better for Scotland than for us. However, if we start dropping every player that makes a mistake we wont have many players to choose from.

O'Donnell is the best right back at the club. It may well be that playing 3-5-2 suits him better than playing 4-3-3, but there is no chance he will be dropped unless we sign someone who is better, which seems unlikely. 

Mugabi could play there I suppose, but he is a centre half and you wont get anything from him going forward. 

It is really frustrating just now, because there is some promise in the team but there is clearly still something missing and the management are showing no signs of changing it in terms of set up or personnel.  

United appear to he in good form just now and Tannadice is a traditionally difficult venue for us. Id take a scrappy hard fought draw right now, but wouldnt surprised with a single goal victory either way.

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5 hours ago, wunderwell said:

The only way I would be playing O'Donnell in terms of giving the guy a chance would be to change formation to a 3-5-2 (0r 5-3-2) dependant on attack/defence.

Kelly

Sondre, Ojala, Mugabi

O'Donnell, Slattery, Goss, Donnelly, Carroll,

Watt, Van Veen

Accomodating this make us more solid in midfield - but completely lacks width. Would be dull and not much fun, but may get results.

 

totally agree with formation - given our current crop of players this for me is far better than what we've been doing.

Could be some debate re Mugabi v's Lamie (personal view id go with Lamie as left sided.
Similarly Donnelly vs Ohara. 

Sadly I don't believe GA will change his formation/structure - he seems hell bent on a front 3.

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Firstly David,  it's a discussion forum and fans will always have different opinions on players.

No one said fans couldn't have opinions, did they? My opinion is that he's the club captain, a player with international experience, and that talk of dropping him in favour of a centre back is ridiculous. He's far from perfect, but very few at our club are. Otherwise, they likely wouldn't be at our club.

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Last Saturday's defending for Celtic's first goal was not what you expect from an experienced defender.

Sorry to say, but there's no one in our squad who'd have stopped Jota scoring that. Sometimes we just need to hold our hands up and say "well, we got turned over by a player of superior quality." 

Jota's turn of pace took O'Donnell by surprise, that's for sure, but there was next to nothing he could have done about that. We were undone by two class finishes at the weekend.

Coincidentally, I watched O'Donnell in the first half do a quite admirable job of containing that young lad. The thought of him going up against Mugabi down that flank gives me the fear.

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Too long since I’ve been to Tannadice. What’s the best bet for a local pub?

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2 hours ago, David said:

No one said fans couldn't have opinions, did they? My opinion is that he's the club captain, a player with international experience, and that talk of dropping him in favour of a centre back is ridiculous. He's far from perfect, but very few at our club are. Otherwise, they likely wouldn't be at our club.

Sorry to say, but there's no one in our squad who'd have stopped Jota scoring that. Sometimes we just need to hold our hands up and say "well, we got turned over by a player of superior quality." 

Jota's turn of pace took O'Donnell by surprise, that's for sure, but there was next to nothing he could have done about that. We were undone by two class finishes at the weekend.

Coincidentally, I watched O'Donnell in the first half do a quite admirable job of containing that young lad. The thought of him going up against Mugabi down that flank gives me the fear.

Piffle. His positioning and reading of the game was poor and made the decision for them and left Kelly exposed. How much Kelly’s positioning was affected by that he’ll know.

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3 hours ago, Kmac said:

Too long since I’ve been to Tannadice. What’s the best bet for a local pub?

The Dugshit n Junkie,  it has all that’s best in Dundee rolled into one.

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11 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Piffle. His positioning and reading of the game was poor and made the decision for them and left Kelly exposed. How much Kelly’s positioning was affected by that he’ll know.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Positioning or not, O'Donnell doesn't have the pace to match that burst from Jota which created the space for the shot. It was a flash of quality from what is a quality player. Like I said, sometimes there's nothing that can really be done. 

Throughout much of the first half O'Donnell done well to keep tabs on the lad, but all it takes is one opportunity.

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55 minutes ago, David said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Positioning or not, O'Donnell doesn't have the pace to match that burst from Jota which created the space for the shot. It was a flash of quality from what is a quality player. Like I said, sometimes there's nothing that can really be done. 

Throughout much of the first half O'Donnell done well to keep tabs on the lad, but all it takes is one opportunity.

Sorry David. I agree with your general point about O'Donnell, and he did make amends later in the first half with a goal saving tackle, but if he tucks in a little at the goal, Jota has to go around the outside and doesnt get a clear run through on Kelly. His body shape and positioning are just a little out and allow the pass to be played inside him. 

Overall though he does more right than he does wrong and I dont see Grimshaw or Mugabi doing any better in that position.

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Mugabi would have had the pace to atone for being out of position.

 

O’Donnell has been very poor lately and if I were the gaffer I’d have him benched, captain or not.

 

Edit - when is the last time O’Donnell has put a genuinely decent cross into the box?

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12 hours ago, stv said:

The Dugshit n Junkie,  it has all that’s best in Dundee rolled into one.

You still drink there then?

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56 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

Mugabi would have had the pace to atone for being out of position.

But he didn't have the pace, as the pass was between both of them. He nearly made it, but nearly doesn't count. 

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My biggest issue with the defence is lack of consistency in personnel. Whether by circumstance or design, I'm not sure now often we've fielded the same starters in 2 consecutive games.

Having that consistency and understanding as a unit is vital, and until we are able to establish a settled back line,  we'll struggle to keep clean sheets.

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5 hours ago, David said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Positioning or not, O'Donnell doesn't have the pace to match that burst from Jota which created the space for the shot. It was a flash of quality from what is a quality player. Like I said, sometimes there's nothing that can really be done. 

Throughout much of the first half O'Donnell done well to keep tabs on the lad, but all it takes is one opportunity.

Football isn’t a difficult game. His positioning and reading of the game is right - the turn of pace matters little. Really basic defending technique, evident since the dawn of time.

Whilst you proclaim all it takes is one opportunity, how did he keep tabs on the opposition? You got it, positioning and how he read the game.

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Focusing on the wrong position .All the problems at the moment are in the middle of the park with Slattery & Goss we could get away with one of them in a deep lying role but the team can't carry both of them ,no pace ,can't tackle ,mark space ,don't work when they don't have the ball . Got to play 4-1-4-1 on Sat it won't be pretty but should get us a point 

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It was always going to be a struggle to rebuild the midfield when Wee Al left the club, and we still haven't found the right blend.

He did the work of two men in there and was usually on hand to clean up any mistakes.

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1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Focusing on the wrong position .All the problems at the moment are in the middle of the park with Slattery & Goss we could get away with one of them in a deep lying role but the team can't carry both of them ,no pace ,can't tackle ,mark space ,don't work when they don't have the ball . Got to play 4-1-4-1 on Sat it won't be pretty but should get us a point 

On that front, I see we're being linked with Ross Tierney of Bohemians, who's out of contract on December 31st. He's a central midfielder, so perhaps the manager sees him as part of the answer to the problem there? Apparently he's got six goals and fourteen assists this season, from what I've read elsewhere.

Him and Slattery in the middle from January onwards?

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I think we have enough to take a point or even all three. Like most games this season it will depend on who turns up on the day. Since we haven’t scored in our last 2 games I think we are due a couple of goals. 

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3 hours ago, GazzyB said:

I said Mugabi would have had the pace, not O’Donnell. 

I said the ball was between both of them and Bevis didn't have the pace, although he was closer to goal and nearly made it. 

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1 hour ago, David said:

On that front, I see we're being linked with Ross Tierney of Bohemians, who's out of contract on December 31st. He's a central midfielder, so perhaps the manager sees him as part of the answer to the problem there? Apparently he's got six goals and fourteen assists this season, from what I've read elsewhere.

Him and Slattery in the middle from January onwards?

Can I ask what is it u see in Slattery that makes him a player 

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